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Dubinsky

View Poll Results: Should the team move Dubi?
No, the NYR shouldn't deal him. 62 47.69%
Yes, the NYR should deal him. 68 52.31%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #76
OverTheCap
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The Rangers have to careful and patient if they trade Dubinsky. Rushing to trade him in a cap dump is not a good idea because if Ryan or someone else becomes available later on, then they will have already lost a trade chip. I'm not even sure if they will actively shop Dubi. I think they will wait and see what is out there via the trade market and then if they see something they like they will try to include him in a package, similar to what happened with Nash during the deadline.

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05-08-2012, 09:50 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The Rangers have to careful and patient if they trade Dubinsky. Rushing to trade him in a cap dump is not a good idea because if Ryan or someone else becomes available later on, then they will have already lost a trade chip. I'm not even sure if they will actively shop Dubi. I think they will wait and see what is out there via the trade market and then if they see something they like they will try to include him in a package, similar to what happened with Nash during the deadline.
I wish Nash didn't have 8 milliona year. 6 mil I bet we got him.But I vote to wait and quiety see and Sather pick pocketing

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05-08-2012, 09:56 PM
  #78
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All I am really trying to convey is that I would like to see a reflection of the current state when it comes to this kind of discussion/proposal. The flat outright refusal to deal Dubinksy in a package for Heatley a couple of years ago has changed into something different. How could it not? So much has changed.
This is not second-guessing; I was completely behind the urge to keep Dubinsky, and think it was a sound decision. Thank goodness for erring on the side of caution.

As mentioned, situations change. Caution is still a good philosophy though, as pointed out by OverThe Cap.

I'm really neutral here. I trust in Sather and the crew.

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Old
05-08-2012, 10:00 PM
  #79
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Lets not forget that during his best year last year he scored 10 of his 24 goals in the first 13 games, he had 14 the rest of the way. He's been inconsistent and that has always been the case.

I think Dubi stepped up when the team was worse, losing games, the chips are down and Dubi's effort made the team regain momentum, a reason why fans loved him, and a reason why he gets tagged as a heart and soul player. We haven't seen him play like that this season, and he doesn't play every shift like that either.

If there is an upgrade, or a piece that fits the team very well. I say go for it.

Quick question for you guys, if Dallas wants to do a Morrow for Dubinsky deal, do you guys take it?

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05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
  #80
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Lets not forget that during his best year last year he scored 10 of his 24 goals in the first 13 games, he had 14 the rest of the way. He's been inconsistent and that has always been the case.

I think Dubi stepped up when the team was worse, losing games, the chips are down and Dubi's effort made the team regain momentum, a reason why fans loved him, and a reason why he gets tagged as a heart and soul player. We haven't seen him play like that this season, and he doesn't play every shift like that either.

If there is an upgrade, or a piece that fits the team very well. I say go for it.

Quick question for you guys, if Dallas wants to do a Morrow for Dubinsky deal, do you guys take it?
No. Morrow has a lot of injury problems. Trade Dubinsky if it makes you better or if it clears the cap space to add a better, more urgent asset. Not if it makes you worse or gives you a potential hole to fill.

Trade him in a deal for a Ryan or a Weber/Suter, or a top offensive prospect/young player. Purely speculation on my part, but I believe at some point the Rangers will go very hard after Martin St. Louis. I'd give up Dubinsky even for a year or two of MSL, one of the best all-around offensive players in the league, with no hesitation. That, however, is probably way down the line.

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05-08-2012, 10:51 PM
  #81
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we need a scorer, not a watered down version of artem anisimov. those voting don't deal him, hit yourself.

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05-08-2012, 11:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Lets not forget that during his best year last year he scored 10 of his 24 goals in the first 13 games, he had 14 the rest of the way. He's been inconsistent and that has always been the case.

I think Dubi stepped up when the team was worse, losing games, the chips are down and Dubi's effort made the team regain momentum, a reason why fans loved him, and a reason why he gets tagged as a heart and soul player. We haven't seen him play like that this season, and he doesn't play every shift like that either.

If there is an upgrade, or a piece that fits the team very well. I say go for it.

Quick question for you guys, if Dallas wants to do a Morrow for Dubinsky deal, do you guys take it?
No way, hes younger and better.

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05-08-2012, 11:32 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
we need a scorer, not a watered down version of artem anisimov. those voting don't deal him, hit yourself.
Really? a watered down version of Anisimov. Boy ranger fans really appreciate there players.


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Old
05-08-2012, 11:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
No, we expect a package of which Dubinsky would be a part of to fetch an upgrade. That means a lot more than just Dubinsky going the other way.



And I never tire of the viewpoint that he "had a tough year offensively," when the truth is he's only had one notable season offensively. His tough year is just a return to the offensive production he's given every year except 2010-11, the only season he's been any sort of consistent offensively. In terms of being a contributor, he's actually a completely redundant piece for the team as currently constructed. The team has a number of cheap, defensive-minded forwards that are quality penalty killers. What the team doesn't have is enough scoring in the top six, particularly on the LW.



That is as incorrect a statement as you could make about this hockey team.



Unbelievable. What do Drury, Gomez, or Richards have to do with Dubinsky? What is your basis for comparison? You're comparing a 25 year old RFA's contract with the UFA contracts signed by players in the prime of their careers, contracts handed out by a desperate team. Not only that, but Drury and Gomez are two of the worst roster moves this team has ever made. Richards is basically the only difference between this year's team and last year's team, other than the fact that this year's team didn't have Marc Staal for half the season and Dubinsky's production dropped like a sack of potatoes, and yet the team went from being a bubble team to nearly winning the President's Trophy. Richards is leading this team in playoff scoring and scoring some of the biggest goals in franchise history, Dubinsky isn't even in the lineup.

And, once again, Dubinsky has NEVER been the Rangers' best forward. Not last season, not the season before. Never.

There's this other guy on the team, the guy who averaged more PPG last season than Dubinsky, who is a better defensive player and better penalty killer than Dubinsky, and who was named the captain of the team. The team's coach has to talk about Dubinsky and his "progress" constantly, routinely addressing the different measures he's taking to improve his play. Constantly shifting him around the lineup, trying to get him going. That other guy? The only thing the coach has ever said about him is "I'm never going to criticize Ryan Callahan."

Not only do some of you people have this crazy, unreasonable bias toward a guy who is consistent at just one thing, being inconsistent, but it prevents you from appreciating the player who legitimately deserves the adoration you choose to bestow on Dubinsky. You don't even understand what you have here, and that's sad, because you have an incredible player, and you're busy falling all over yourselves to make excuses for a player who is barely notable.
Wow. We all know Callahan is a great player for this team, no one can argue that. However if you ask me does Dubisnky offer things cally cant, yes he does. He is bigger, protects the puck better and is probably better on the PK because of his reach. He was the best forward last year for the most part, i dont care if you want to argue that all you want. He was the guy the team relied on largely when it came to getting things going offensively. Not only that, he sticks up for teammates more than anyone and any guy on the team could speak to that. Of course Cally has played better this season, no one can argue that.

Next the only difference between this year and last year is Richards and upgraded healthier Stall. Your leaving out probably the most important difference and that is Carl Hagelin. This kid stepped into the lineup and has done everything to perfection. He made a great play to control the puck and get it back to the point to give any chance of the tie goal last night and was also the guy the 4 minute penalty was taken on. Hes been a major difference since he got recalled and these playoffs even with 1 point. Hes forecheck and tenacity and ability to gain the puck has done great for Gabby and Richards ability to score. Without him they couldint play together because neither did enough to gain control of the puck, you know the thing you need to have to score. If two guys skate and watch and third guy doesent skate like crazy and do so much, puck possesion would not be gained.

Saying that Drury and Gomez contracts are not comparable is false. Btw they are just part of a long list of contracts that have been complete failures. Giving Dubisnky 4 mil was fine with me, he was (for you) a top 3 forward last season, the previous season before that and essentially was the guy playing on the top line with Jagr the season prior so 3 seasons of a top 3 forward i think deserves 4 mil. More so hes the type of guy you build a team with, hes versatile and not one dimensional. If hes not scoring he can still contribute. The arguement about the 5 seasons or whatever, Ya hes numbers were not great every year but this is just part of the fact this team can not score, we dont score 6 or 7 or 4 or 5 very often so points will be harder to come by. Plus he doesent get PP time, when he probably should be on atleast the second unit.
To sum up, yes he can be inconsistent as everyone is, however he is targeted by me included more because of how effective we see he can be, and simply want it all the time. Now this is the case with many players. This is why he is not a top 3 forward in terms of offensive but because of our teams after the Nylander line, he essentially was. But what he is a an effective player and a game changer with his ability to shield defenders and make a play. If you know hockey you would appreciate this even more than a shot block. This is very important and what makes the best player Crosby so effective is his strength and protecting pucks and making plays. To say he is the weakest link is unfair and not true. Hes had it tough under Torts as for whatever reason hes not his favourite guy but he is a quality NHLer and any team he goes to will be lucky to have him.

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05-09-2012, 12:05 AM
  #85
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Further yes Richards scored a huge goal to tie it, but are you really going to claim because of that goal he is leading this team. He has the most points great. But the leaders of this so far have been Hank, and the big 3 on D. Mcd, Girardi and Stall. Up front it has been quite balanced with different guys contributing at good moments including young Krieder, Stepan, Anisimov pretty much everyone. Richards does get the most PP time which will help the point total. I will say Richards is a very effecient hockey player out there no doubt and hes been poised at the right time because of his experience but i would not say he is leading the team to presidents trophies and this run, thats what the media would say not watching but so far up to now its not been the case. I hope he continues to come up big at the right times, but you gotta remeber we were an inch away from being down 3-1, no chance of tieng the the game late but Hank gets enough of it to keep it at 1 goal. This has occured in both series so far. It really a team effort. No one man tha for sure and if it is its the D and Hank.

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05-09-2012, 12:41 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Wow. We all know Callahan is a great player for this team, no one can argue that. However if you ask me does Dubisnky offer things cally cant, yes he does. He is bigger, protects the puck better and is probably better on the PK because of his reach.
Dubinsky is physically bigger, Callahan plays bigger. Dubinsky has a longer reach than Callahan on the penalty kill, but Callahan is better positionally, anticipates and reads plays better, blocks shots better, is a better checker, a better pokechecker,

2011-12 Shorthanded time on ice:
Callahan 2nd among forwards, 1:48 per game/Dubinsky 5th among forwards, 1:15 per game.

2010-11 shorthanded time on ice:
Callahan 1st among forwards, 2:13/Dubinsky 2nd, 2:05

Quote:
He was the best forward last year for the most part, i dont care if you want to argue that all you want. He was the guy the team relied on largely when it came to getting things going offensively.
There is no argument. You have nothing to back up what is an essentially empty claim. All of the evidence points to Callahan being the team's best forward, not to mention best player other than Lundqvist, last season. As for your claim regarding offense . . .

2010-11 points per game:
Callahan = .8
Dubinsky = .7

2010-11 total power play points:
Callahan = 60 games, 15 PP points
Dubinsky = 77 games, 11 PP points

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Not only that, he sticks up for teammates more than anyone and any guy on the team could speak to that. Of course Cally has played better this season, no one can argue that.
Callahan has played better every season since they've both been in the league, and no one can argue that, either. Callahan was awarded the captaincy for years of consistently superb play, not just because he was the best player last season. Sticking up for your teammates is great, but is that, good penalty killing, and incredibly inconsistent third-liner production worth a 4.2 mill cap hit? No.

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Next the only difference between this year and last year is Richards and upgraded healthier Stall. Your leaving out probably the most important difference and that is Carl Hagelin. This kid stepped into the lineup and has done everything to perfection. He made a great play to control the puck and get it back to the point to give any chance of the tie goal last night and was also the guy the 4 minute penalty was taken on. Hes been a major difference since he got recalled and these playoffs even with 1 point. Hes forecheck and tenacity and ability to gain the puck has done great for Gabby and Richards ability to score. Without him they couldint play together because neither did enough to gain control of the puck, you know the thing you need to have to score. If two guys skate and watch and third guy doesent skate like crazy and do so much, puck possesion would not be gained.
Carl Hagelin was a very important addition, but he essentially replaced Dubinsky's production. He is not a more important addition than Brad Richards. Not even close. Are you really comparing the addition of a rookie complimentary winger to a Conn Smythe winning first line center?

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Saying that Drury and Gomez contracts are not comparable is false. Btw they are just part of a long list of contracts that have been complete failures.
And right now it looks like Dubinsky is the newest addition to the list. BTW, if you could explain how that is false, it'd be great. You still haven't explained the basis for comparison between a one 50 point season 25 year old's RFA contract and a UFA contract signed by 30 year olds with Cup rings and 60-70 point seasons under their belt.

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Giving Dubisnky 4 mil was fine with me, he was (for you) a top 3 forward last season, the previous season before that and essentially was the guy playing on the top line with Jagr the season prior so 3 seasons of a top 3 forward i think deserves 4 mil.
He played on the top line with Jagr because the Rangers were a mediocre team with no depth and no other options. The biggest reason the Rangers were a mediocre bubble team that whole time is precisely because Dubinsky was one of the top 3 forwards; because they didn't have anyone better. He played there by default, not because he was a top line player.

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More so hes the type of guy you build a team with, hes versatile and not one dimensional. If hes not scoring he can still contribute.
So can plenty of players who don't make 4.2 million a season. He's actually exactly the type of guy you don't build a team with. Consistency is one of the most important ingredients for winning. And since he can hardly ever be counted on for consistent offensive production, one dimensional is actually not such a bad description for him.

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The arguement about the 5 seasons or whatever, Ya hes numbers were not great every year but this is just part of the fact this team can not score, we dont score 6 or 7 or 4 or 5 very often so points will be harder to come by. Plus he doesent get PP time, when he probably should be on atleast the second unit.
He's one of the biggest reasons the team can't score. He couldn't score when there was no help. He can't score now when there is.

Quote:
To sum up, yes he can be inconsistent as everyone is, however he is targeted by me included more because of how effective we see he can be, and simply want it all the time.
Again, this is exactly the problem. Players carrying a 4.2 mill cap hit should not be as inconsistent as he is and has been for most of his career.

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But what he is a an effective player and a game changer with his ability to shield defenders and make a play. If you know hockey you would appreciate this even more than a shot block. This is very important and what makes the best player Crosby so effective is his strength and protecting pucks and making plays. To say he is the weakest link is unfair and not true. Hes had it tough under Torts as for whatever reason hes not his favourite guy but he is a quality NHLer and any team he goes to will be lucky to have him.
"For whatever reason?" There are a multitude of reasons, starting with the fact that there are numerous games throughout all but one season of his career where he is invisible or totally useless offensively.

Dubinsky has never been, is not, and will never be a gamebreaker. 45 point players are not gamebreakers!

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05-09-2012, 12:47 AM
  #87
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The question here should have been if Dubi should be shopped aggressively or not.

Obviously anyone can be traded for the right return, and nobody should be traded without the right return.

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05-09-2012, 01:15 AM
  #88
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No way, hes younger and better.
Dubinsky will never, ever, on his best day, be better than Brendan Morrow. That's laughable.

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05-09-2012, 06:29 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
its not like Dubinsky is going to get you bobby ryan.

But if you do Dubinsky+++ youre going to make it hard to say no.

Rangers have enough assets to get anyone they want
.


This is why I voted yes.

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05-09-2012, 07:46 AM
  #90
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Really? a watered down version of Anisimov. Boy ranger fans really appreciate there players.
This has nothing to do with appreciating players...It has to do with whats best for NYR and addressing there needs.Dubinskys inconsistancys are not what NYR needs.they need a steady top 6 winger and Dubinksy seems to fit the role but not steady.... Like i stated before,he shows upand bundles up points for 10 games then dissapears for 20,thats a fact.Not what NYR needs.

Only 2 players I have no problem with NYR losing are Dubinsky(somewhat) and Mitchell.

I as much as anyone want to give Dubinsky a shot.But I think he needs a change of scenary.Where would he fit, IDK.Maybe Nash,Edm,Fla..I think he owould be great with Det.Thats just IMO

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05-09-2012, 07:59 AM
  #91
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I suggested Morrow because Dallas wants to get younger and get players in the mold of Benn (which Dubi fits), Morrow did have injury issues, and he certainly is a 20 goal scorer with a couple of seasons of 30 or more, but Morrow shows up shift in and shift out. A smaller, yet older player compared to Dubinsky, but he'd fit the team like a glove. Question is if Morrows got a couple of quality seasons left in the tank.

Looking at the playoff games now, it doesn't seem like the team is missing a beat without Dubi. Wouldn't adding Morrow at the expense of a Mitchell on the current roster make this team even better? I guess if Nash and Parise are attainable Morrow doesn't figure in to any scenario.

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05-09-2012, 08:00 AM
  #92
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What? Who do we need then?

A bomb from the point.

Or a right handed winger, who plays in Anaheim.

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05-09-2012, 08:37 AM
  #93
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The watered down version of Anisimov comment doesn't really make sense to me as Dubi and Anisimov are very different players, and Arty had only two more points than Dubi this year. Watered down version of Clowe or Dustin Brown, that I could see.

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05-09-2012, 09:26 AM
  #94
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I see so many posts here about Dubinskys offensive inconsistency.. For good reason. But how many 'second liners' in the league can you say the same thing about?

If Dubi was more consistent offensively, he would we a bonafide 1st liner, especially when you consider his intangibles. I think the same is true for most 2nd/3rd line tweeners. Consistency is what separates good for great.

You guys ***** about his salary. We're not in cap trouble. We can afford Dubi. The issue is he didn't produce like a 4m player, but that doesn't mean he won't next season.

IMO he's a legit 2nd liner who's versatile, and can pop 20g while providing a physical edge.

You guys are so caught up in "we needs more offense". Next season, Hags, Kreider, and Dubi will solidify our LW. I LOVE that depth. I think Dubi can easily bounce back. I'd rather bank on that, than blowing our load +++++ for someone like Nash.

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05-09-2012, 10:08 AM
  #95
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The problem is that, unlike last season, his play on the ice that doesn't show up on the scoresheet has also been inconsistent.

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05-09-2012, 11:03 AM
  #96
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The problem is that, unlike last season, his play on the ice that doesn't show up on the scoresheet has also been inconsistent.
Inconsistent as far as what? Is he less physical? Has he been a defensive liability? Does he block less shots?

I see the same Dubinsky as last season, aside for confidence, and offense. There is no reason to suspect he won't overcome that.

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05-09-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Inconsistent as far as what? Is he less physical? Has he been a defensive liability? Does he block less shots?

I see the same Dubinsky as last season, aside for confidence, and offense. There is no reason to suspect he won't overcome that.
He HAS been less physical. There was basically no difference between when Dubinsky would hit someone and when Callahan would hit someone last season. They were mirror images in terms of their choices. Fairly regularly this season, I've been surprised when Dubi's turned away from a player on the forecheck.

He also doesn't bring the puck to the net as often as he did last year.

Defensively, he's been fine.

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05-09-2012, 11:11 AM
  #98
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am I the only one who feels his intensity and pesty play/forecheck is missing from this series?
No, and Dubi has always played well against the Caps. We are definitely missing him right now.

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05-09-2012, 11:11 AM
  #99
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One thing to add you dont get far with a weak link not even one. The league is so tight and close that if you have 1 or 2 you wont go far even with stars on the team. Right now there is no weak link in terms of a player. All those banging Mitchell, hes been good, hes played great for him minutes. Rupp has played well, much improved from reg season. There is just no room for weak links if your in the second and possibly third round. A guy like Wolski was a weak link for his time, so didnt play. You dont play if your not doing something good out there, esp under Torts.
The Hawks won with questionable goaltenders. The Bruins won with one of the worst PPs in recent time.

Every Cup winning team has flaws and weak links, it's silly to think that winning the Cup means the team was perfect. It's about how the team works as a whole and how many bounces go your way.

If you don't think players like Mitchell are weak links on this team..I don't even know what to say to that.

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05-09-2012, 11:13 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Inconsistent as far as what? Is he less physical? Has he been a defensive liability? Does he block less shots?

I see the same Dubinsky as last season, aside for confidence, and offense. There is no reason to suspect he won't overcome that.
Apparently, Tortorella saw a different Dubinsky, too. He got almost a minute less shorthanded time on ice this season, and it isn't as if that was to give him a break because he was getting more minutes elsewhere. His minutes overall went way down.

So even on the one thing that he's supposedly consistent at, playing defense and killing penalties, the coach was not impressed. And I agree, I thought even his defensive play suffered this year. He was invisible offensively most nights, but there were a number of nights where he was invisible in general.

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