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Old
05-09-2012, 03:23 AM
  #76
Xegiie
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well, im not gonna talk about Jagr's defence play as everyone know its his weak side
but i don't know why everyone mention Jagr being nonfactor, while every single flyer was nonfactor, yep some scored goal, but it is not like any line was outplaying NJ or any player.
Also most of time when we tried some offence, Jagr made pass and never got puck back, that kind of doesn't help with showing up

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05-09-2012, 03:29 AM
  #77
Jtown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
well, im not gonna talk about Jagr's defence play as everyone know its his weak side
but i don't know why everyone mention Jagr being nonfactor, while every single flyer was nonfactor, yep some scored goal, but it is not like any line was outplaying NJ or any player.
Also most of time when we tried some offence, Jagr made pass and never got puck back, that kind of doesn't help with showing up
I agree, every flyer was pretty much a non factor. Id say outside of Bryz, the only players i noticed were Coburn and Voracek.

I think Jagr doesnt add anything new to this team. Voracek is a younger , faster, cheaper version of his skill set to some degree. Voracek is also weak on the boards much like jagr, so if we could replae one of them with a winger with a stronger board prescence it would be jagr who we would replace.

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05-09-2012, 03:44 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
im also expressing my opinions
"just 2 points behind" don't forget each point could be the key one.
I don't know how well you remember those matches, but we weren't exactly steam rolling pens, each goal was important.

Also G is still young and need to learn a lot, i'll point out at his ban again, did Jagr do anything even close to that?, pointless arguing with refs?, G still needs to learn and evolve, focus more on play than trying to be another Crosby and i think Jagr can help with that in my opinion.
Also i don't think Jagr dragged G down, but thats just my opinion again.
But ofc playoffs Jagr was 3 levels down from Jagr in first half of season, i blame groin, maybe he can heal it up now.
It's great that you want to express your opinions, but why don't you try directing them at someone else, because I never once asked for your opinion. I stated a bunch of things in my first post, you responded to the Jagr statement and put me in a position to elaborate on it.

It's pretty obvious you want the management to re-sign Jagr, and I clearly don't. So let's leave it at that because I'm not changing your mind and you most definitely will not be changing mine.

/Done

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05-09-2012, 03:49 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by drownedsailors View Post
It's great that you want to express your opinions, but why don't you try directing them at someone else, because I never once asked for your opinion. I stated a bunch of things in my first post, you responded to the Jagr statement and put me in a position to elaborate on it.

It's pretty obvious you want the management to re-sign Jagr, and I clearly don't. So let's leave it at that because I'm not changing your mind and you most definitely will not be changing mine.

/Done
well i also didn't ask for your opinion, so why you reply? show me part saying, where im demanding reply, i stated facts and my opinion i was /done 2 posts before this, have a good day

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Old
05-09-2012, 03:54 AM
  #80
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Even if we made it past the devils, the Rags (assuming they are the ones to advance) probably would have swept us. That would have been even worse.

I think this thread that was made during the Pens series really says it all: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1164965

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:08 AM
  #81
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Also, we had 437 man games lost to injury.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=36232

Anyone more than us?

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:54 AM
  #82
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So dissapointed right now

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:21 AM
  #83
Andre Poodle Lussier
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no to carle...let him walk...not worth what he thinks he is worth.

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:35 AM
  #84
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I know everyone hates Carle, but his replacement options are not so hot. If Gus does not develop the way we think he can then we may miss carle significantly.

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05-09-2012, 05:41 AM
  #85
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Outside perspective of the season (watched every Flyers playoff game) - and I don't 'hate' the Flyers, though I obviously don't particularly root for them:

- The loss of Pronger really hurt this team.
- I feel like they emotionally shot their load after beating the Pens (which was awesome, btw)
- Franchise bugaboo: those dumb penalties always haunt this team
- Need to add on the back end, particularly if Pronger doesn't improve
- Jagr faded terribly in the 2nd series
- Bryz was bad, but not as bad as you think. The D in front of him didn't help him much. I think the guy can still be a #1 if there's a better defensive system in place
- Dislike the Devils more than the Flyers, but you have to give it to them. They played the Flyers perfectly.

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:44 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I know everyone hates Carle, but his replacement options are not so hot. If Gus does not develop the way we think he can then we may miss carle significantly.
I don't think we do... or should really hate him at his current salary... but we will if we resign him at what he will get in the open market. He really isn't worth more than the 3.4 we pay him now.

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05-09-2012, 05:47 AM
  #87
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i want to know why the team constantly admits to losing thier emotional edge in the middle of a playoff run. what more edge do you need than to beat another division rival to advance one series closer to winning a cup.does crosby have to play on every team for the flyers to want to play harder?? i makes no sense why, even with a new roster, they still admit to putting in a half hearted effort and say(and i qoute scott hartnell in the game 5 pregame) "we've been playing with the snooze button on the past 4 games"

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:56 AM
  #88
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I would trade JVR for a defenseman in a heartbeat. Really grown to dislike him.

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05-09-2012, 06:21 AM
  #89
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Btw, what's the waiver status for Bourdon and Gustafsson? If I got it right, Bourdon would have to clear waivers if he's sent down next year, while Gustafsson still has one season where he is exempt, but I've been wrong before when it comes to these things...

I don't want us to go into next season expecting them both to take a place in the lineup, but if the above is true, I would assume that Bourdon has the better chance of staying up and that could perhaps have some say in who else we go for on defense (if we don't get Suter).

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:30 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Outside perspective of the season (watched every Flyers playoff game) - and I don't 'hate' the Flyers, though I obviously don't particularly root for them:

- The loss of Pronger really hurt this team.
- I feel like they emotionally shot their load after beating the Pens (which was awesome, btw)
- Franchise bugaboo: those dumb penalties always haunt this team
- Need to add on the back end, particularly if Pronger doesn't improve
- Jagr faded terribly in the 2nd series
- Bryz was bad, but not as bad as you think. The D in front of him didn't help him much. I think the guy can still be a #1 if there's a better defensive system in place
- Dislike the Devils more than the Flyers, but you have to give it to them. They played the Flyers perfectly.
Jagr has been terrible the last 20-30 games now.. He did almost nothing

Bryz was surprisingly our best player in the 2nd series.. Just we couldn't get the offense going and defense was as solid as jello


Quote:
Originally Posted by laundryman View Post
I would trade JVR for a defenseman in a heartbeat. Really grown to dislike him.
I'm up in the air about it.. I would trade him for a young #1 defenseman like Pietrangelo, Erik Johnson, or Suter/Weber.. But anything less, probably not

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:33 AM
  #91
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Trading JVR now is just such a mistake.

1. His trade value is as low as its ever been
2. You can't judge his performance based solely on the NJ series.. that would be stupid
3. For what his potential is , that 4.25 could be sweet bargain.
4. Let us not forget his injury plagued season


If we play him on a line with G next year and he gets PP time and plays 82 games. I see him cracking 35 goals.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:34 AM
  #92
Krishna
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Btw, what's the waiver status for Bourdon and Gustafsson? If I got it right, Bourdon would have to clear waivers if he's sent down next year, while Gustafsson still has one season where he is exempt, but I've been wrong before when it comes to these things...

I don't want us to go into next season expecting them both to take a place in the lineup, but if the above is true, I would assume that Bourdon has the better chance of staying up and that could perhaps have some say in who else we go for on defense (if we don't get Suter).
Gustafsson has another year left on his ELC which i believe makes him able to come up and down at any point

Bourdon's ELC is done this year.. Lemme look up waiver rules..


Judging by what i found, since he is only 22 and has only played 45 games, he should be clear for the next 25 or so games

And i would think Gustafsson has a better chance of sticking.. But Bourdon could get a fair shot

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:36 AM
  #93
Jtown
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Jagr has been terrible the last 20-30 games now.. He did almost nothing

Bryz was surprisingly our best player in the 2nd series.. Just we couldn't get the offense going and defense was as solid as jello




I'm up in the air about it.. I would trade him for a young #1 defenseman like Pietrangelo, Erik Johnson, or Suter/Weber.. But anything less, probably not
Krishna,

It is good to have high standards, but the standards for trading JVR are unobtainable sadly.

Although Erik Johnson kind of sucks imo.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:39 AM
  #94
Krishna
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Krishna,

It is good to have high standards, but the standards for trading JVR are unobtainable sadly.

Although Erik Johnson kind of sucks imo.
I didn't say it would be a 1 for 1 swap

And Johnson played really good the last half of the season

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:27 AM
  #95
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First thing that needs to be done this off season is get everyone healthy. JVR was playing injured all year. He should have never seen the ice in the playoffs because it was clear to anyone watching that his hip/sports hernia/groin problems were still apparent. Briere also mentioned after the Pens series that there were a lot of guys in the locker room playing hurt and injured. I'm sure Grossmann was one of those guys and it won't surprise me to hear that he's going to need surgery on both his knees. Kubina needs surgery on his knees as well. Then there's Simmonds who was playing injured and even Giroux was having problems with his wrists. When the injured list comes out and the number of players who need surgery is announced, I'm expecting everyone to say "we made it that far with that many injuries?!?!?!?!".

The other thing that needs to be addressed is what the team is going to do moving forward. Overall team defense has to be addressed. As much as I love the wide open game they play, they also need to learn to clamp down and grind it out when the situation arises. The fact that the team never adapted to the Jersey game plan and Laviolette refused to change things up really hurt this club in the end. Holmgren and Laviolette need to decide this off season what direction they want this club to go in. I really think that they're trying to emulate the system used in Detroit, but in order to use that type of system, every player needs to buy into it. I don't think that they have the right mix of guys to play that type of system.

The last thing that needs to be done is to find out how to get Bryzgalov back on track. I know some think Bryzgalov is terrible, but this is the first season he's had in which he genuinely had a bad year. Every player has them. I think he put too much pressure on himself to be a savior in Philadelphia and it blew up in his face. This off season, I expect him to stick around Philadelphia and work out the kinks in his game. I also think he was playing injured as you could tell his lateral movement was way off in the playoffs. I'm sure his foot was giving him all kinds of trouble.


I'm happy that the club did better than expected. Some guys had really good years this year and some need to have good years next year. I expect Voracek to be a 60 to 65 point guy next year and I think Simmonds is ready to take his game to the next level and be one of the premier power forwards in the game. Looking forward to next season and looking forward to this off season when the Flyers begin their annual retool.

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:41 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
I would be willing to trade JVR if it got us a good puck moving D man... other than that I think he was playing hurt again.
I really see us packaging him and a first to move way up in the draft and get a stud dman. This team needs one and they know they do. That way when you sign suter you'll have cheap stud level talent to play with him in addition to the solid youngish 3 dmen we already have. I mean.


Suter Stud prospect
Couburn Grossmann
Mez bourdon

That looks pretty good

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:47 AM
  #97
Jack de la Hoya
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JVR to Florida for Gudbranson or Kulikov.

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:51 AM
  #98
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The Flyers dont need a prospect dman... With the looks of the defense next year, they need to hit FA hard or even draft day trades.

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:02 AM
  #99
Jack de la Hoya
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The Flyers dont need a prospect dman... With the looks of the defense next year, they need to hit FA hard or even draft day trades.
Healthy, Timonen, Meszaros, Coburn, and Grossmann is not an awful top-4.

Of course Suter would look good, but it gets awful thin after that. Matt Carle is probably the second best UFA defenseman. That should say something.

You aren't going to be able to acquire a stud, top-pairing defenseman for a package built around JVR. In fact, I'm struggling to identify a youngish / prime defenseman who would be available by trade and is a clear upgrade on that top-4. Anyone?

I'd rather explore a move for a high-end NHL player who hasn't quite peaked yet (e.g., Kulikov), which I think is at least somewhat more realistic.

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:05 AM
  #100
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Hartnell (4.20) - Giroux (3.75) - Briere (6.50)
vanRiemsdyk (4.25) - Schenn (0.90 / 3.11) - xxxxxxxxxx
Simmonds (1.75) - Couturier (0.93 / 1.38) - Read (0.90)
Rinaldo (0.54) - Talbot (1.75) - Wellwood (0.58)
Shelley (1.10)

Timonen (6.33) - Meszaros (4.00)
Coburn (4.50) - Grossmann (3.50)
Gustafsson (0.90) - xxxxxxxxxx
Lilja (0.74) - Walker (1.70)

Bryzgalov (5.67)
Bobrovsky (0.90 / 1.75)

TOTAL: 53.69 / 57.20
2011-12 CAP: 64.30
SPACE: 10.61 / 07.10

KEY RE-SIGNS: Voracek (RFA)
LIKELY RE-SIGNS: Bourdon (RFA), Zolnierczyk (RFA), Sestito (RFA), Holmstrom (RFA), Testwuide (RFA)
VETERAN FREE AGENTS: Jagr (UFA), Carle (UFA)
VANISHING CONTRACTS: Laperriere (UFA), Betts (UFA), Kubina (UFA), Leighton (UFA), Backlund (UFA), Jancevski (UFA) Bacashihua (UFA)



I'll just post that for reference. The ideal scenario is obviously Voracek re-signing, Suter signing, and possibly a Gaustad signing. That fills up all our holes theoretically. If we have a bonus cushion plus an increase in the cap, it's very possible. We already have 10.61m to technically play with as of now.
I could live with this. I would try to trade Bob to Tampa for their 2 2nd rounders and get a veteran 30-35 year old and hope to draft Subban.
I think the Flyers need to step back and take a break and get healthy. I think Bryz will be getting a hip surgery (traditional goalie operation), he wasn't the same in April as he was in March. A big center is really needed so Gaustad works for me. I think Prongers meanness was never duplicated - Rinaldo and Shelley are not that guy - and if that could be found with a guy who can take a regular shift, that would be great.

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