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Old
05-08-2012, 07:35 AM
  #51
SenatorsTime
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The only way i would consider even trading zbad would be for Columbus 2nd overall pick, that way we can get murray and have him and karlsson on the top unit for the next 10plus years

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05-08-2012, 08:09 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SenatorsTime View Post
The only way i would consider even trading zbad would be for Columbus 2nd overall pick, that way we can get murray and have him and karlsson on the top unit for the next 10plus years
Only trade Zibanejad (but I think that Howson would prefer Lehner over him) and your the first pick for our first pick IMO. But honestly, I doubt that it would happen IMO. Neither Howson or Murray would want it to do IMO.

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05-08-2012, 08:36 AM
  #53
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Of note, Dorion's reference was specifically regarding "taking forwards with our first round draft picks" which means it is more to do with not taking a d-man with one of those three picks, than specifically taking Z-Bad.

I don't believe we even brought in Hamilton for one-on-one interviews as I recall (where as we did bring in Couturier), so I'm not sure he was ever considered at #6.

Of note, I find this reference a little strange given the BPA rule. This is exaclty why you don't go for need, as this realization was less than a year after a draft, let alone 4-5 years when you really start to bare the fruits of your draft. I admire is candor at least.

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05-08-2012, 09:16 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Of note, Dorion's reference was specifically regarding "taking forwards with our first round draft picks" which means it is more to do with not taking a d-man with one of those three picks, than specifically taking Z-Bad.

I don't believe we even brought in Hamilton for one-on-one interviews as I recall (where as we did bring in Couturier), so I'm not sure he was ever considered at #6.

Of note, I find this reference a little strange given the BPA rule. This is exaclty why you don't go for need, as this realization was less than a year after a draft, let alone 4-5 years when you really start to bare the fruits of your draft. I admire is candor at least.
Indeed, we could have picked up Morrow or Percy.

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05-08-2012, 09:18 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
The only glaring difference I can find between those two guys, for better or worse, is that Mika's got high end one timer ability that Michalek has NONE of.

Alot of the other stuff is pretty close all the way down to the frame and skating stride.
Bingo. I would also say Mika's potential is probably equal to that of Michalek's, before he blew out his knee/knees thrice.

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05-08-2012, 09:52 AM
  #56
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To get a quality top 4 NHL Dman you have to give up quality - I don;t think anybody is giving up on Zibby, I think you are trading for position here just like we drafted for position last year - I think this is what Dorion is alluiding to - we have glut of forwards and we need D, let's make a deal.

Last season we had a glut of young D - turned that into Kyle Turris, nobody gave up on Rundblad, people were actually angry about the trade, but nobody misses Rundblad now - same thing with Zibby, to me he's the guy with the value right now that gets you the young D you're looking for.

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05-08-2012, 10:15 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
To get a quality top 4 NHL Dman you have to give up quality - I don;t think anybody is giving up on Zibby, I think you are trading for position here just like we drafted for position last year - I think this is what Dorion is alluiding to - we have glut of forwards and we need D, let's make a deal.

Last season we had a glut of young D - turned that into Kyle Turris, nobody gave up on Rundblad, people were actually angry about the trade, but nobody misses Rundblad now - same thing with Zibby, to me he's the guy with the value right now that gets you the young D you're looking for.
Like who though? I can't think of any d-men I would flip Mika for at this point. It would be much easier to sign a UFA or draft a defensemen with our 1st this year.

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05-08-2012, 10:20 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
Like who though? I can't think of any d-men I would flip Mika for at this point. It would be much easier to sign a UFA or draft a defensemen with our 1st this year.
There are always those rumours out of Winnipeg that Bogosian wants out or they want to trade him - he'd be perfect in Ottawa in every way, he's huge and mean, got some offense, is a leader and a minute eater

Ott: Bogosian
Win: Zibby, 15th overall 2012

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05-08-2012, 10:24 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
There are always those rumours out of Winnipeg that Bogosian wants out or they want to trade him - he'd be perfect in Ottawa in every way, he's huge and mean, got some offense, is a leader and a minute eater

Ott: Bogosian
Win: Zibby, 15th overall 2012
Bogosian would be a good fit, but I'd rather wait and see how Mika developes, and just draft someone like Maata.

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05-08-2012, 10:33 AM
  #60
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no way is Zibby traded

he is exactly the type of player Murray loves. And is the type of player who can shine in the playoffs
Totally agree plus it would be taking a step back a year in player development.

Just draft a dman this year if that's what you need and you don't loose a center which are equally tough to find.

Further, the dman which Murray is looking for is more likely to be signed on July 1st as a UFA or traded for...

Why take a step back in time anyways.... Zibby will be an impact player when he's in his mid to early 20's....

He's freakin' 19yrs old...

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05-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
The only glaring difference I can find between those two guys, for better or worse, is that Mika's got high end one timer ability that Michalek has NONE of.

Alot of the other stuff is pretty close all the way down to the frame and skating stride.
The key difference is Mika just turned 19, and Michalek is 27.

If I was to compare Mika to Milan.... Milan is bigger and stronger and it shows in many facets of the game.

Mika is the better skater (more efficent), has a quicker release, and has better acceleration. Mika also seems to have better balance and is definitely more apt to intiate physical contact.

When Mika matures physically, he will be a better player than Milan, and Milan isn't too bad himself.

Watching the NHL playoffs year after year, it isn't the fancy hockey plays that carry the day, it is just down and dirty hard work.

Which of the five teams still in the playoffs led the NHL in total goals scored? None.

Philly was closest at third, and they are on the verge of going on holidays.

Of the likely four semi-finalists, none rank in the top third, New Jersey (11), New York (13), Phoenix (17), LA (29).

These teams are being successful using size, physicality, and a punishing forecheck to create offence, as limited as it may be. They are taking away time and space, successfully neutralizing offensive creativity. The only way to win isn't by getting fancier, just working harder.

Playoff hockey is where players like Zibanejad excel. He may not always look pretty and fancy, but with his size, speed, and physical play he is built for the playoffs.

IMO he brings what the Senators were lacking against the Rangers, trading him would be a huge mistake.

If the Sens need a young prospect Dman with top 4 ability, they have lots of assets to make it happen. But none of Zibby, Silf, Karlsson, Cowen, Turris, Smith, Greening or Noeson should be made available.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 05-08-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old
05-08-2012, 12:55 PM
  #62
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Zibanejad can score from long range. Michalek, not so much. That particular facet of Mika's game is what leads me to believe he could be a better player than Michalek.

If Zibanejad learns to play with more confidence, he'll remind many people of Ilya Kovalchuk. The only other NHL player I can think of with that skill set is Ovechkin.


Last edited by Manny*: 05-08-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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Old
05-08-2012, 03:04 PM
  #63
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As mentioned before the Sens have the two young defensemen in the NHL right now who will most likely turn into top 2 defenders (Cowen and Karlsson). These are the hardest pieces to come by. Also the Sens have Spezza, Turris and Michalek who are all legitimate top 6 players and are under the age of 30. We are looking pretty good.

I don't think it is fair to say we need defensemen more than we need top 6 forwards as both positions need help. Fact is we don't know which of Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Stone, Prince, Noesen and even Puempal will develop the way we hope. If we keep the wrong player then the team will be in trouble. If 3 or 4 of them develop how we hope then our forward position is set. At that point we can either fill the gaps on D via trade, free agency, or hopefully a draft pick or two step up.

The fact remains that it seems we have the most difficult pieces in place right now which are the top shelf type players (1/2D and 1/2C). Obviously the wings need help but we have the players who can fill that need. We are in a great position moving forward. After a year our rebuild is going splendidly.

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Old
05-08-2012, 03:18 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny View Post
Zibanejad can score from long range. Michalek, not so much. That particular facet of Mika's game is what leads me to believe he could be a better player than Michalek.

If Zibanejad learns to play with more confidence, he'll remind many people of Ilya Kovalchuk. The only other NHL player I can think of with that skill set is Ovechkin.
Would love for him to be a poor man's Ovie. The guy is a explosive skater and likes to go for big hits at times, not to mention his shot.

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Old
05-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #65
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I've heard rumours Bogo wants out, but, on the other hand, also heard recently that he's changing to #4 from #44 on the Jets, which sounds like he's planning on sticking around. Obviously, he can't have #4 on the Sens! (Unless Phillips wanted to go back to #5?)

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05-08-2012, 06:14 PM
  #66
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I have a high level of doubt about Zibanejad going anywhere.

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05-08-2012, 06:37 PM
  #67
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There is a lot of time for Murray to wait to see who becomes available at the draft or through the summer or even into next season. There always seems to be some guy available that teams might be in a position to make a good deal for. Bogosian comes to mind & Chris Stewart comes to mind & I'm sure there will be others who are young with potential.

I think Murray will try & make a few moves at the draft but it may not necessarily be in the first round although that would be ideal. He may try & unload a few forwards with butler being the first i would think. Would love to see him trade up to get Ceci or Reinhart & make a deal to get into the 2nd rd or late first to grab Tom Wilson.

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05-08-2012, 07:07 PM
  #68
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So then what exactly do we do in the event that Stone/Silf/Prince don't work out? None of those guys are the big, mobile guys that will torment the opposition's defence, like MZ, either.
I'm not really stressed about that, we should be able to build a good top-9 around :

Spezza, Michalek, Turris, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Stone, Regin, Foligno, Noesen, Petersson, Prince, Da Costa, Butler, Pageau, Puempel, Hoffman, Filatov, Grant and Sorensen

IMO, 3 of them are already top-6 forwards, so we should have no trouble developing 3 more amongst the 16 others. I even think we'll develop more than that so we could have attracting pieces to trade for another star forward

My personal hope at this point looks like this :

Petersson-Spezza-Silfverberg
Michalek-Turris-Zibanejad
Noesen-Foligno-Stone

Shouldn't be too mad

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Originally Posted by Manny View Post
Anybody who's given up on Zibanejad already doesn't know a whole lot of anything.
We could have drafted Sean Couturier though!!!

Zibanejad didn't even make the NHL and wasn't even a PPG player in the SEL at 18 y/o

Bust.



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Certainly does. We have nothing in terms of d prospects. Boro and that's it. The rest are unlikely to become anything more then bottom pairing guys...
Claesson, Blood and Wiercioch (even if he had ups and downs) are decent prospects. Unfortunately for them, they will likely get bumped in the depht chart before they make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
There are always those rumours out of Winnipeg that Bogosian wants out or they want to trade him - he'd be perfect in Ottawa in every way, he's huge and mean, got some offense, is a leader and a minute eater

Ott: Bogosian
Win: Zibby, 15th overall 2012
Why exactly would we have to add the 15th overall pick?

Bogosian really not as good as he was touted to be before being drafted... He was taken too high IMO. Pietrangelo is much much better


Last edited by Xspyrit: 05-08-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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Old
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
  #69
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I'm not going to rain down hate but my rebuttal would be: "take a look at Colin Greening". Guy had 17 goals this year by just being big and a good skater. His hands are hardly NHL calibre and he still managed it. Zibanejad's are from a different galaxy in comparison and he's going to have that same size/speed combo when he fills out.

In all honesty, Zibby has one of the best tool sets I've ever seen on a player his age. You can't teach the things he can do.
Greening had ample opportunitities on the top line this year. Heck Ryan Shannon put up great numbers two years ago when he got top line minuites. Point being, just because you out up some numbers playing top minutes doesn't make you a top 6 guy in my eyes.

Greening is best suited on the 3rd line in Ottawa. In Philly he'd be on the 4th.

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This made me chuckle, the Sens have two prospects that are 21 years old playing right now, one is a Norris candidate and the other has all the signs of being a real stud.

How quickly people forget.
Din't forget those guys at all. Cowen I suppose is still a prospect, but Karlsson is not. To me our back end needs a lot of work, outside of those two we are very old and slow. Phillips is now a bottom pairing guy, Gonchar is barely a 2nd pair guy and he's done here after next season. Kuba who knows if he will be back, but he's 35 and doesn't have much to go.

Our defence is thin imo and to go deep in the playoffs you need solid defence.

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How many third liners in the NHL are 6'2 220, skate like him, and shoot like him? The answer is honestly, probably 0. He was described as the most dangerous shooter at the WJC as an 18 year old this year and I would guess the only guy with a more devastating one timer would have been Yakupov. Players with that type of ability rarely remain checkers as they age....especially when he's gonna be as big, and probably skate very much like Michalek.

Logic, not hate. Anything's possible, but it's a bad bet. He was almost kept to play this year and it probably would have been 3rd line.
Not going to argue Mika's skills. Plenty of players have had great skills and haven't become impact.

I don't have a problem if Mika turns out to be like a Schenn in Philly. 2nd/3rd liner. Similar styles of play and scoring potential imo...

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Old
05-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #70
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Not going to argue Mika's skills. Plenty of players have had great skills and haven't become impact.

I don't have a problem if Mika turns out to be like a Schenn in Philly. 2nd/3rd liner. Similar styles of play and scoring potential imo...
There aren't many players that shoot like that, that don't get premiere offensive minutes. I can't think of any. He possesses one of those skills that pretty well instantly makes you an offensive role player and as everyone knows, his size/skating is exceptional.

Like I said, anything can happen, but you're betting against the odds pretty hard. It's really hard to imagine him being anything less than a 2nd liner once he's grown up. He's got one hell of a skill set....better than a lot of the other guys that don't reach "potential" and it's hard to see what could hold him back from becoming a scoring line player. I could see what could hold him back from being a true star though.

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05-09-2012, 08:53 AM
  #71
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No one is a bigger Z-bad fan than me. Met him earlier this year, he signed a Z-bad jersey for me and gave my son his stick. That said...

VERY concerned about the back to back concussions he suffered within a relatively short time of each other.

Anyone have any updates on how he's doing?

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05-09-2012, 10:41 AM
  #72
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It would be pretty nice if both Mika and Claesson both play a full season in the AHL together to get some seasoning.

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05-09-2012, 11:27 AM
  #73
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No one is a bigger Z-bad fan than me. Met him earlier this year, he signed a Z-bad jersey for me and gave my son his stick. That said...

VERY concerned about the back to back concussions he suffered within a relatively short time of each other.

Anyone have any updates on how he's doing?
He's fine. I talked to him at the grocery store a couple days after the collision, to which he pretty much denied having a concussion.

It appears that if he did sustain one, it was very minor. He's not near in the same place as Winchester right now.

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05-09-2012, 12:10 PM
  #74
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It would be pretty nice if both Mika and Claesson both play a full season in the AHL together to get some seasoning.
Would certainly be weird having zero prospects playing in Sweden. Although that possibility will likely get shot down come the draft.

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05-09-2012, 01:06 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
There are always those rumours out of Winnipeg that Bogosian wants out or they want to trade him - he'd be perfect in Ottawa in every way, he's huge and mean, got some offense, is a leader and a minute eater

Ott: Bogosian
Win: Zibby, 15th overall 2012
yip. i like bogosian. but that's too high of a price. maybe peumpel+ and a lower pick? that might be too little.

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