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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Where does Swiss rank in international tournaments?

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:42 AM
  #51
torero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
A little OT: Looking at the rankings of other ppl Finland is always fourth or fifth. We won gold last year. And last two Olympics we've got silver and bronze..
I agree with you !

In fact hockey world is such a world of old farts ! amazing ! it takes ages to review a concept.
It is now many years that Switzerland has been regularly beating Canada ... and giving strong machup in games ... and we still call this an upset !

we could believe that hockey rankings are based on a 10 year moving average

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:47 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Not gunna base this off of teams here..

Canada
Sweden (depth over Russia)
Russia
USA (more elite players then Finland)
CZE/SVK(they're pretty close)
Switzerland(only due to lack of star players)
Finland
Finland is worst of them even though it has 4 olympic medals of last 5 olympic games and World Championship from last year? I laughed, thought, not at your message, but straightly at you.

I rank your list last of everyone(lack of (f)intelligent) unless you even try to put some argument behind your words.


Last edited by QnebO: 05-09-2012 at 07:57 AM.
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Old
05-09-2012, 07:59 AM
  #53
torero
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Not gunna base this off of teams here..

Canada
Sweden (depth over Russia)
Russia
USA (more elite players then Finland)
CZE/SVK(they're pretty close)
Switzerland(only due to lack of star players)
Finland
Contrary to your nickname, i think you have a lot of creativity !!

Cut on your creativity and put Finland back to where it belongs !

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:06 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Stars View Post
Me and a friend are having a argument on where Swiss ranks in international tournaments out of the teams that participate, where would you rank them and would you say they are starting to become a dangerous opponent?

Is it fair to say they are ranked 6th underneath Canada, USA, Russia, Finland, Sweden?
And what would justify such ranking ?

Isn't it the tournaments like the olympics and world cups which should settle these sorts of "arguments" ?

They are catching up with the top 6 while for example the czechs are losing ground(and it's gonna get worse), but we are still recent world champs and last wc's bronze medalists, while the swiss have not made the semis in more then 10 years and their last medal is from 1953.

Let them get some results first and then we can talk about them being in top 6

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05-09-2012, 08:37 AM
  #55
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1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Russia
- small gap -
4. Finland
5. Czech Republic
6. USA
7. Slovakia
- very small gap -
8. Switzerland
- significant gap -
9. Denmark
10. Germany
- small gap -
11. Belarus
12. Latvia
13. Norway

ranked only teams that matter

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:47 AM
  #56
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Players from the NHL have been participating in the olympics since 1998 in Nagano, so let's take a look at the top 3 results from all the
best-on-best tournaments that have taken place since then:

1998 Nagano olympics: 1.Czech Republic 2.Russia 3.Finland

2002 Salt Lake City olympics: 1.Canada 2.USA 3.Russia

2004 World Cup: 1.Canada 2.Finland 3.Czech Republic and USA

2006 Torino olympics: 1.Sweden 2.Finland 3.Czech Republic

2010 Vancouver olympics: 1.Canada 2.USA 3.Finland


It's pretty obvious that people who rank Russia and/or Sweden ahead of Finland are just not competent enough to do any rankings. Finland has been outside of the top3 just once, Russia has medalled twice and Sweden only once.

Ranking points v.1 (medals/ranking points: 5-3-1):

1.CAN 15p
2.FIN 8p
3.CZE and USA 7p
5.SWE 5p
6.RUS 4p

Ranking v.2 (medals/ranking points: 3-2-1):

1.CAN 9p
2.FIN 6p
3.CZE and USA 5p
5.SWE and RUS 3p

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:50 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Russia
- small gap -
4. Finland
5. Czech Republic
6. USA
7. Slovakia
- very small gap -
8. Switzerland
- significant gap -
9. Denmark
10. Germany
- small gap -
11. Belarus
12. Latvia
13. Norway

ranked only teams that matter
Denmark is highly overrated here. Don't see them have neither small or significant gap over either Germany, Belarus, Latvia or Norway. They have good top players but no depth.

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:51 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Russia
- small gap -
4. Finland
5. Czech Republic
6. USA
7. Slovakia
- very small gap -
8. Switzerland
- significant gap -
9. Denmark
10. Germany
- small gap -
11. Belarus
12. Latvia
13. Norway

ranked only teams that matter
Wow latvia below belarus,germany and denmark you have to be ********ing kidding me

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:55 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roto View Post
Canada/Russia/Sweden
USA
Finland/Czech rep
Slovakia/Switzerland
I agree with this, 100%.

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Old
05-09-2012, 08:57 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemfail View Post
Players from the NHL have been participating in the olympics since 1998 in Nagano, so let's take a look at the top 3 results from all the
best-on-best tournaments that have taken place since then:

1998 Nagano olympics: 1.Czech Republic 2.Russia 3.Finland

2002 Salt Lake City olympics: 1.Canada 2.USA 3.Russia

2004 World Cup: 1.Canada 2.Finland 3.Czech Republic and USA

2006 Torino olympics: 1.Sweden 2.Finland 3.Czech Republic

2010 Vancouver olympics: 1.Canada 2.USA 3.Finland


It's pretty obvious that people who rank Russia and/or Sweden ahead of Finland are just not competent enough to do any rankings. Finland has been outside of the top3 just once, Russia has medalled twice and Sweden only once.

Ranking points v.1 (medals/ranking points: 5-3-1):

1.CAN 15p
2.FIN 8p
3.CZE and USA 7p
5.SWE 5p
6.RUS 4p

Ranking v.2 (medals/ranking points: 3-2-1):

1.CAN 9p
2.FIN 6p
3.CZE and USA 5p
5.SWE and RUS 3p
Allways been thinking of that (ranking best on best based on consistant succes) but havent been wanting to rank them based on that, because it would raise my own country higher and that would take the credibility out of it. This rank also confirms the fact theres a clear top 6. Good post.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:01 AM
  #61
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I guess this is the kind of thread where anything goes, people are making lists without telling us what they're basing them on.

"well where do i put germany ? ..... guess here looks just fine"

What can i say ?

Wanna make a list ? Sign up and go nuts.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:02 AM
  #62
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Canada
Russia/Sweden/USA
Finland/Czech rep
Slovakia/Switzerland

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:03 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Canada
Russia/Sweden/USA
Finland/Czech rep
Slovakia/Switzerland
Based on what is USA there? One olympic silver maybe? If it was gold then maybe yes but.. It should be along with Finland and Czech rep imo. Russia also is there because their player list on paper, not because the succes.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:10 AM
  #64
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Since when have the Swiss started "regularly" beating Canada?

****, you make it sound like most times the Swiss play Canada in international competitions they beat beat Canada now, in what fantasy world has this happened?

Regularly giving them close games I agree with.

As a matter of fact I would say they have been giving the big six close games regularly for some time now............................but not beating any of them regularly.

That's why people still rank you where they rank you.................and rightly so.

You are getting ahead of yourself and reading into things that aren't reality yet if you consider yourself to be any higher then seventh at best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by torero View Post
I agree with you !

In fact hockey world is such a world of old farts ! amazing ! it takes ages to review a concept.
It is now many years that Switzerland has been regularly beating Canada ... and giving strong machup in games ... and we still call this an upset !

we could believe that hockey rankings are based on a 10 year moving average

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:25 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Based on what is USA there? One olympic silver maybe?
That silver is good enough as the Olympics were best-on-best. Note the subject of this topic mentions "international tournaments", obviously not referring to just the WHC. The Americans have seen incredible progress at the junior level and the rather unimpressive-on-paper teams they keep sending to these WHC games are always dangerous even if they seem rather disinterested at times.

This while the Swiss have maybe crept past Slovakia rather slowly. The Swiss cannot be underestimated but at the same time they're nowhere near winning gold or silver.

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05-09-2012, 09:37 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Wow latvia below belarus,germany and denmark you have to be ********ing kidding me
Latvia in WC last 6 years:
10th, 13th, 11th, 7th, 11th, 13th

Belarus:
6th, 11th, 9th, 8th, 10th, 14th

Germany:
17th, 9th, 10th, 15th, 4th, 7th

Denmark:
13th, 10th, 12th, 13th, 8th, 11th


I don't know what Latvia has done in your eyes to deserve a better position?

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05-09-2012, 09:45 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
Latvia in WC last 6 years:
10th, 13th, 11th, 7th, 11th, 13th

Belarus:
6th, 11th, 9th, 8th, 10th, 14th

Germany:
17th, 9th, 10th, 15th, 4th, 7th

Denmark:
13th, 10th, 12th, 13th, 8th, 11th


I don't know what Latvia has done in your eyes to deserve a better position?
Latvias average: 10,3 With 7 high
Belarus average: 9,66 With 6 high
Germany average: 9,66 With 4 high
Denmark average: 11,16 8 With 8 high


It is so thight between them, its just mostly about opinion I think. Germany has really good high thought, maybe it should be respected as best of them.

My opinion is Latvia has great culture for the sport, just saw again 1 minute ago document about their fans in Sweden, you can blame latvia for the fact that Sweden has atleast some athmosphere there. I give them props allways when possible, same here, they are the best of them. I think those other countries dont really have hockey as very big sport, or maybe belarus has. Thought Germany has great atmosphere too even if hockey aint big.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:50 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special One View Post
in a few years swiss and germany can join Czech in the rankings. but the top five is still be untouchable.
I don't think so. I respect Switzerland as a notable hockey force, but there is nothing to indicate they should be on the same level as Czech Republic. It's true that they are very competitive against CZE on the junior national teams level, but still they have notably less drafted players and less NHL'ers, KHL'ers etc. The top6 still exists and will be in the near future IMO. The same goes for Germany.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:51 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
Latvia in WC last 6 years:
10th, 13th, 11th, 7th, 11th, 13th

Belarus:
6th, 11th, 9th, 8th, 10th, 14th

Germany:
17th, 9th, 10th, 15th, 4th, 7th

Denmark:
13th, 10th, 12th, 13th, 8th, 11th


I don't know what Latvia has done in your eyes to deserve a better position?
Were basically the same level teams,and we are sure as hell stronger than belarus.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:10 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Were basically the same level teams,and we are sure as hell stronger than belarus.
Stronger than Belarus? based on what?

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:19 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
Latvia in WC last 6 years:
10th, 13th, 11th, 7th, 11th, 13th

Belarus:
6th, 11th, 9th, 8th, 10th, 14th

Germany:
17th, 9th, 10th, 15th, 4th, 7th

Denmark:
13th, 10th, 12th, 13th, 8th, 11th


I don't know what Latvia has done in your eyes to deserve a better position?
The issue is no different that what people are doing with Canada here. They're still at the top of everyone's lists, even though they are only 5th in the current ranking. The result doesn't always tell the whole story. Latvia finished last in the Olympics again, although had a single puck in over-time not hit the cross bar, they would have been in the top 8. They've placed below Norway on several occasions in the past few years, yet always seem to beat them head to head with considerable ease. It's all about the luck of the draw and a bad game here or there. When it comes down to the overall strength of their best available team, Latvia is firmly in 8th or 9th spot, slightly ahead of Germany, Norway, Belarus and Denmark, not 12th. If we were going to go purely on results, the US would have to be down a fair notch since they were within a goal of being relegated just a few years ago. But we all know that's not their true place in hockey world.

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05-09-2012, 10:31 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v-man View Post
The issue is no different that what people are doing with Canada here. They're still at the top of everyone's lists, even though they are only 5th in the current ranking. The result doesn't always tell the whole story. Latvia finished last in the Olympics again, although had a single puck in over-time not hit the cross bar, they would have been in the top 8. They've placed below Norway on several occasions in the past few years, yet always seem to beat them head to head with considerable ease. It's all about the luck of the draw and a bad game here or there. When it comes down to the overall strength of their best available team, Latvia is firmly in 8th or 9th spot, slightly ahead of Germany, Norway, Belarus and Denmark, not 12th. If we were going to go purely on results, the US would have to be down a fair notch since they were within a goal of being relegated just a few years ago. But we all know that's not their true place in hockey world.
Cant say that i agree with the bolded part. Belarus and Norway yes, but Germany and Denmark no.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:39 AM
  #73
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1. Russia/Canada
2. Finland/Sweden/Czech rep
3. Usa
4. Swiss/Slovakia

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:40 AM
  #74
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It's between them and Germany for 8th spot for me.

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05-09-2012, 10:46 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
that is done more for political / promotional purposes.
I'm sorry, but that really is nonsense. The system was designed to reflect the long-term quality of all national hockey programs and their commitment to international hockey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
As you pointed out the IIHF also have separate Power Rankings.
Those are done merely for comedic purposes, they hold no sports value whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
The WC is a measure of the which teams are able to get their top players to show up, the OG is a measure of which nation is best with their top players, so they are not measuring the same thing.
Each team also has players missing during Olympic Games, so it's never an best on best, merely a best-available-at-that-moment on best-available-at-that-moment.

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