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Playoffs, Part Two.

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Old
05-08-2012, 10:12 PM
  #976
Dubi Doo
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I'm a happy man right now. Devils are going to the cup. Mark my words!


Brodeur worries me, though.

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05-08-2012, 10:12 PM
  #977
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The flyers aren't even that dirty anymore relax, but DANNY CAN COME BACK NOW (: YAY <3

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05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
  #978
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Flyers had a Cup capable team the previous two seasons. They just needed better goaltending. So instead of just getting a better goalie they dismantle that team to over correct the situation.

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05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
  #979
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Good riddance ********!

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05-08-2012, 10:26 PM
  #980
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While the Caps winning helps our pick, I wouldn't mind seeing a NJ-NYR series. Two hated rivals at each others throats for a Stanley Cup berth? Could be fun.

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05-08-2012, 10:29 PM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Philly's in an interesting position with their squad. The youth is promising for sure with Schenn/Coturier/Giroux/Simmonds/Voracek, but even if they all pan out look at the team's age elsewhere. Jagr's gone, but Briere's got an NMC and will be making 6.5 until his upper 30s with presumably declining point totals. Pronger's going to cost them 5 million until 2017 and he wasn't the gamebreaker he used to be even when healthy earlier this year. Throw in Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, Grossmann, and X, and that's over 25 million sunk into a very average defense. Add to that the fact JVR's getting paid 4.2 million for what will probably be 40-50 point production, and that Mr. Universe will be collecting 5.6 on an NMC until 2020, and the team may have to make some uncomfortable decisions.
I think JVR is gone. JVR would have significant value to a team seeking size in their top-6--teams like Toronto would overpay. I have no doubt Holmgren could net a pretty nice return for him. And what would a Flyers offseason be if Holmgren didn't trade a guy he just signed to a long-term contract?

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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Flyers had a Cup capable team the previous teo seasons. They just needed better goaltending. So instead of just getting a better goalie they dismantle that team to over correct the situation.
So stupid. I can't believe people like Gleason give Holmgren credit for being bold. No, he was stupid. You don't trade guys like Mike Richards. Jeff Carter? Sure. Not Mike Richards. And then to compound the mistake by signing a mercurial guy like Bryz to such a huge, long-term deal.

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05-08-2012, 10:42 PM
  #982
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So stupid. I can't believe people like Gleason give Holmgren credit for being bold. No, he was stupid. You don't trade guys like Mike Richards. Jeff Carter? Sure. Not Mike Richards. And then to compound the mistake by signing a mercurial guy like Bryz to such a huge, long-term deal.
*Trades Giroux for futures*

BOLD!

Seriously, the bolded bit is reason enough to root for the Kings.

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05-08-2012, 11:02 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Boy View Post
While the Caps winning helps our pick, I wouldn't mind seeing a NJ-NYR series. Two hated rivals at each others throats for a Stanley Cup berth? Could be fun.
And it would be chock full of 1994 flashbacks. Matteau's OT winner, Messier's guarantee and subsequent hat trick, stuff like that.

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05-09-2012, 12:29 AM
  #984
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I like the Rangers and am a big Tortorella fan, but I want the Caps to win.

That team over the last few seasons has been so exciting to watch and seeing them bottom out earlier this season was sad. With them barely making the playoffs and many assuming they wouldn't go far, the pressure has not been as heavy on them as it was in recent seasons. I think this has helped.

2 of the 3 Ranger wins had to come in OT, so the Caps have really been playing the Rangers tight and tough.

They proved in the Boston series that they have it in them to win a game 7 in a hostile building. They just need to win one more at home, then it's anybody's series.

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Old
05-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #985
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I think Gregg Williams is working in the Flyers front office somewhere.
This made me laugh.

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Old
05-09-2012, 11:43 AM
  #986
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Hmm tippet has been the coach for only a few years , LA hires there coach in December, NJ hired there coach at the beginning of the season, torterella has only been in NY for a few years and Washington got a new coach this year. Hmm common trend? O that St Louis team they hired a coach mid season also

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05-09-2012, 11:47 AM
  #987
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Hmm tippet has been the coach for only a few years , LA hires there coach in December, NJ hired there coach at the beginning of the season, torterella has only been in NY for a few years and Washington got a new coach this year. Hmm common trend? O that St Louis team they hired a coach mid season also
I know what your getting at. The question remains. Does Pegula know what your getting at? I think it is a joke we have to see all this happening in the NHL. But we get stuck with the same crap.

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05-09-2012, 11:53 AM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I think JVR is gone. JVR would have significant value to a team seeking size in their top-6--teams like Toronto would overpay. I have no doubt Holmgren could net a pretty nice return for him. And what would a Flyers offseason be if Holmgren didn't trade a guy he just signed to a long-term contract?

So stupid. I can't believe people like Gleason give Holmgren credit for being bold. No, he was stupid. You don't trade guys like Mike Richards. Jeff Carter? Sure. Not Mike Richards. And then to compound the mistake by signing a mercurial guy like Bryz to such a huge, long-term deal.
Signing Bryz (or any goalie) to that type of contract was monumentally stupid.

But the trading of Ricahrds/Carter was absolutely bold... and absolutely the right thing to do.

You know what NOT trading Richards/Carter ends up looking like? San Jose-Thornton/Marleau.

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05-09-2012, 12:03 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Philly's in an interesting position with their squad. The youth is promising for sure with Schenn/Coturier/Giroux/Simmonds/Voracek, but even if they all pan out look at the team's age elsewhere. Jagr's gone, but Briere's got an NMC and will be making 6.5 until his upper 30s with presumably declining point totals. Pronger's going to cost them 5 million until 2017 and he wasn't the gamebreaker he used to be even when healthy earlier this year. Throw in Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, Grossmann, and X, and that's over 25 million sunk into a very average defense. Add to that the fact JVR's getting paid 4.2 million for what will probably be 40-50 point production, and that Mr. Universe will be collecting 5.6 on an NMC until 2020, and the team may have to make some uncomfortable decisions.
New CBA, Ed Snider will be writing buyout checks.

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Old
05-09-2012, 12:10 PM
  #990
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Look at how phoneix and st louis system is built. Goalies benefit with great defensive play. In some systems, teams build in front and play a style not dependent on the goalie. You must have a good goalie but you don't need the best goalie in some systems, opposite of how Buffalo is built.

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05-09-2012, 01:07 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Look at how phoneix and st louis system is built. Goalies benefit with great defensive play. In some systems, teams build in front and play a style not dependent on the goalie. You must have a good goalie but you don't need the best goalie in some systems, opposite of how Buffalo is built.
That's exactly the way they play when they're hot. Did you not notice the drastic improvement in team defense between February and April this year, and how Miller's stats skyrocketed at the same time? The problems come when the players aren't committed to that disciplined game.

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05-09-2012, 03:11 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Signing Bryz (or any goalie) to that type of contract was monumentally stupid.

But the trading of Ricahrds/Carter was absolutely bold... and absolutely the right thing to do.

You know what NOT trading Richards/Carter ends up looking like? San Jose-Thornton/Marleau.
Both Philly and San Jose's issues aren't that they traded or kept their two core forwards, but that they made several terrible moves around those decisions. Philly signed Bryz and expected Pronger to stay healthy, San Jose got guys like Heatley, Havlat and Burns with the expectation of making them a better playoff team. Also, San Jose has been losing value trades for years. Craig Rivet for Josh Georges. Dumping Ehrhoff for Rob Blake's last year.

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05-09-2012, 03:20 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Both Philly and San Jose's issues aren't that they traded or kept their two core forwards, but that they made several terrible moves around those decisions. Philly signed Bryz and expected Pronger to stay healthy, San Jose got guys like Heatley, Havlat and Burns with the expectation of making them a better playoff team. Also, San Jose has been losing value trades for years. Craig Rivet for Josh Georges. Dumping Ehrhoff for Rob Blake's last year.
Havlat did turn out to be a good investment re: the playoffs. He definitely showed up against the Blues. And it's hard to fault them on Burns, he filled a need they had entering the season. Their problem was not getting contributions from their "core" and Niemi isn't all that good.

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05-09-2012, 03:20 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Both Philly and San Jose's issues aren't that they traded or kept their two core forwards, but that they made several terrible moves around those decisions. Philly signed Bryz and expected Pronger to stay healthy, San Jose got guys like Heatley, Havlat and Burns with the expectation of making them a better playoff team. Also, San Jose has been losing value trades for years. Craig Rivet for Josh Georges. Dumping Ehrhoff for Rob Blake's last year.
Campbell for Ennis, etc....

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #995
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Havlat did turn out to be a good investment re: the playoffs. He definitely showed up against the Blues. And it's hard to fault them on Burns, he filled a need they had entering the season. Their problem was not getting contributions from their "core" and Niemi isn't all that good.
3 points in the playoffs and 37 games played is not worth five million dollars a season, and the only reason they traded for him in the first place was because it saved them over 2 million in cap space.

And Burns filled a need? They lost in the playoffs the year before because they couldn't stop the Sedins at even strength or the power play. How does spending virtually all of their assets on a physical, risk taking puck rusher with a history of being mediocre-at-best in his own zone address that? Especially when he was already redundant because of Boyle.

Oh and I forgot they traded McGinn for third liners and PK specialists because the third liner (Handzus) and PK specialist (White) they picked up in the offseason turned out to suck.

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05-09-2012, 05:12 PM
  #996
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3 points in the playoffs and 37 games played is not worth five million dollars a season, and the only reason they traded for him in the first place was because it saved them over 2 million in cap space.

And Burns filled a need? They lost in the playoffs the year before because they couldn't stop the Sedins at even strength or the power play. How does spending virtually all of their assets on a physical, risk taking puck rusher with a history of being mediocre-at-best in his own zone address that? Especially when he was already redundant because of Boyle.

Oh and I forgot they traded McGinn for third liners and PK specialists because the third liner (Handzus) and PK specialist (White) they picked up in the offseason turned out to suck.
Oh I'm not saying they didn't screw up with other moves, and Havlat's health is always an issue (although he did produce at a pretty solid clip when he was healthy), but just saying that Havlat/Burns are not why they lost in the playoffs. And they still needed more production from the back end--all they had was Boyle. Vlasic has very little offensive game, Demers is average at best...they needed more offense from the blue line. Now they also needed a better defensive D-man (instead of Braun and Colin White), which they didn't address, but they absolutely still needed a guy like Burns.

Yes, Heatley didn't pan out for them. Their depth players didn't pan out for them. Etc. But I wouldn't look at those specific two moves as being negatives.

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05-09-2012, 05:42 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Both Philly and San Jose's issues aren't that they traded or kept their two core forwards, but that they made several terrible moves around those decisions. Philly signed Bryz and expected Pronger to stay healthy, San Jose got guys like Heatley, Havlat and Burns with the expectation of making them a better playoff team. Also, San Jose has been losing value trades for years. Craig Rivet for Josh Georges. Dumping Ehrhoff for Rob Blake's last year.
my reference is to a GM recognizing early on that certain high end core players aren't going to get it done, and moving on from that. And also recognizing that leaders need to lead by example and moving on from those who don't.

Holmgren made a ballsy ass decision that most GMs would be incapable of making because the moves he made...put his job on the line... and the Flyers are better for it (the Richards and Carter trades)

Continually trying to build around a flawed core and/or poor leadership, usually gets you no where.

Yea, Richards has turned it around since getting the boot... doesn't mean it wasn't the ABSOLUTE right thing to do, at the time, in Philadelphia.

It's year 8 in San Jose, and they are just starting to talk about what they should've done 4 years ago.

Unfortunately, Regier, like most GMs, doesn't have the balls.

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05-09-2012, 07:01 PM
  #998
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The only way trading Richards was the right move is dependent on information I don't have.

San Jose mis-identified one of their core players (Marleau) out of organizational loyalty and then proceeded to build around their core with soft skill guys and past-their-prime vets. I don't know how trading Thornton at any point in the past eight years makes them better. They should've done a better job surrounding their best guy with the right mix of talent...

Sidebar: I don't think either team's situation applies to Buffalo. The Sabres don't have anyone on Thornton or Richards' level. They built themselves entirely around their Marleaus and Carters and didn't have the ownership to blow it up (and still don't, but for a different reason).

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05-09-2012, 08:12 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
The only way trading Richards was the right move is dependent on information I don't have.

San Jose mis-identified one of their core players (Marleau) out of organizational loyalty and then proceeded to build around their core with soft skill guys and past-their-prime vets. I don't know how trading Thornton at any point in the past eight years makes them better. They should've done a better job surrounding their best guy with the right mix of talent...

Sidebar: I don't think either team's situation applies to Buffalo. The Sabres don't have anyone on Thornton or Richards' level. They built themselves entirely around their Marleaus and Carters and didn't have the ownership to blow it up (and still don't, but for a different reason).
i think it's fair to make assumption... he traded his captain for a young prospect and a 3rd liner... there is only one reason to do that... im perfectly comfortable making that assumption.

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05-09-2012, 08:26 PM
  #1000
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There's 1000. Let's fire the next one up.

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