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Old
05-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  #101
TheKingPin
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
The Flyers dont need a prospect dman... With the looks of the defense next year, they need to hit FA hard or even draft day trades.
The flyers are set up to have one of the youngest and best cores in hockey. We need to get a young core dman. This draft has plenty and if I could I'd try and get two of them. It's obvious that cheap great players only happen when they are rookies. In the cap you need to have those players.

As far as bryz I think he's fine. When he's healthy he allows you to win games. This team does not play a d first system and I hope they never do. We need a goalie that will make a few big saves and bryz does that. In march he was awesome then be got hurt no surprise he stunk when he came back but got better and better. He was our best player this series. Team need to get healthy and younger on D.



I think that we may actually get a first for carle plus someone under a contract this offseason. Then use that to get a dman. Trade our first and jvr to live way up and get a dman

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:25 AM
  #102
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The flyers are set up to have one of the youngest and best cores in hockey. We need to get a young core dman. This draft has plenty and if I could I'd try and get two of them. It's obvious that cheap great players only happen when they are rookies. In the cap you need to have those players.

As far as bryz I think he's fine. When he's healthy he allows you to win games. This team does not play a d first system and I hope they never do. We need a goalie that will make a few big saves and bryz does that. In march he was awesome then be got hurt no surprise he stunk when he came back but got better and better. He was our best player this series. Team need to get healthy and younger on D.



I think that we may actually get a first for carle plus someone under a contract this offseason. Then use that to get a dman. Trade our first and jvr to live way up and get a dman
That seems...optimistic. Hamhuis's rights were worth, what, a third? Unless you are adding a very significant piece, I can't see any team giving up more than that for Carle's UFA rights.

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05-09-2012, 09:27 AM
  #103
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The Flyers should put the full court press on Suter and Justin Schultz if he leaves college and becomes a free agent. Though it will hurt, a young forward should be moved to acquire a young puck moving defenseman. Someone like JVR won't return a good current NHL defenseman in a trade but he would get a high-level NHL ready prospect like Dumoulin or Gormley. With scoring down, teams will be desperate for offensive talent.

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05-09-2012, 09:27 AM
  #104
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Any idea on the price of
Kulikov? Does jvr& bob get it done?
I'd love to see
Suter- Kulikov
Coburn-Grossmann
Schultz-Meszaros

I have a feeling kimo is done. A player on the team told me
He was leaning that way back in march but maybe a change in heart. Think we can win bidding wars for suter AND Schultz?

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05-09-2012, 09:41 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
That seems...optimistic. Hamhuis's rights were worth, what, a third? Unless you are adding a very significant piece, I can't see any team giving up more than that for Carle's UFA rights.
Idk I think the rest of the league over values him. Def over values him to hamhuis. Think a second would be for his rights minimum. I think if you're the rest of the league carle may be your only option past suter.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:43 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Any idea on the price of
Kulikov? Does jvr& bob get it done?
I'd love to see
Suter- Kulikov
Coburn-Grossmann
Schultz-Meszaros

I have a feeling kimo is done. A player on the team told me
He was leaning that way back in march but maybe a change in heart. Think we can win bidding wars for suter AND Schultz?
Florida would have no interest in Bob with Markstrom in the wings. Schultz will be under a million no matter where he signs due to the elc constraints. It would be a matter of convincing him to come to the Flyers over the other 29 teams. A right shooting puck moving defenseman is going to be in high demand.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:13 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Btw, what's the waiver status for Bourdon and Gustafsson? If I got it right, Bourdon would have to clear waivers if he's sent down next year, while Gustafsson still has one season where he is exempt, but I've been wrong before when it comes to these things...

I don't want us to go into next season expecting them both to take a place in the lineup, but if the above is true, I would assume that Bourdon has the better chance of staying up and that could perhaps have some say in who else we go for on defense (if we don't get Suter).
If Gus is still exempt from waivers while Bourdon is not, this certainly influences roster planning.

Am I the only one worrying about Bourdon's health status?
This guy has sustained almost as many concussions as Gagne over the last two years

I know his last injury has never been confimed but word is he had two concussions within two months. And at least one concussion with the Phantoms that I still remember although I have to admit that I don't follow the Phantoms closely.

Not a good sign for an already injury prone defense....
I'm not saying they should let him walk, just being careful and don't sign him to a 4 year deal or something similar stupid.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:14 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
If Gus is still exempt from waivers while Bourdon is not, this certainly influences roster planning.

Am I the only one worrying about Bourdon's health status?
This guy has sustained almost as many concussions as Gagne over the last two years

I know his last injury has never been confimed but word is he had two concussions within two months. And at least one concussion with the Phantoms that I still remember although I have to admit that I don't follow the Phantoms closely.

Not a good sign for an already injury prone defense....
I think you used the wrong emotion...

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05-09-2012, 10:34 AM
  #109
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I'm a little worried about guys like Read and Simmonds taking a step back next year. They were 3rd and 4th on the team in goals which no one expected. Read seems to be more of a 15-20 guy. Can Simmonds get 25+ again? On the other hand, guys like Schenn and Coots are going to increase their production, so it could balance itself out.

JVR is definitely the X factor in all of this. When he finally gets healthy can he get back to where he was in the 2011 playoffs. I know from a reliable source that Mr. S was very down on him this year which is a little strange considering he did have a lot of legit injuries.

Pronger of course is the other big issue. I don't know a lot about how the cap works, but if he doesn't retire, but yet, still can't play and how is hit money treated? From what I understand, we get cap relief from that, but it doesn't kick in till the season starts, correct? So, it doesn't help in signing anyone. I love the guy, but for his well being, I hope he decides to hang it up.

Carle, again, I would bring back from the right price. I'm not as down on him as others, but if we can use that money for someone else, go for it.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:37 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by youthoftoday View Post
I'm a little worried about guys like Read and Simmonds taking a step back next year. They were 3rd and 4th on the team in goals which no one expected. Read seems to be more of a 15-20 guy. Can Simmonds get 25+ again? On the other hand, guys like Schenn and Coots are going to increase their production, so it could balance itself out.

JVR is definitely the X factor in all of this. When he finally gets healthy can he get back to where he was in the 2011 playoffs. I know from a reliable source that Mr. S was very down on him this year which is a little strange considering he did have a lot of legit injuries.

Pronger of course is the other big issue. I don't know a lot about how the cap works, but if he doesn't retire, but yet, still can't play and how is hit money treated? From what I understand, we get cap relief from that, but it doesn't kick in till the season starts, correct? So, it doesn't help in signing anyone. I love the guy, but for his well being, I hope he decides to hang it up.

Carle, again, I would bring back from the right price. I'm not as down on him as others, but if we can use that money for someone else, go for it.
Basically, yes, you have it right, except that a team can exceed the salary cap by 10 percent during the offseason.

Essentially, Pronger's anticipated LTIR eats up that offseason cushion, but it shouldn't keep them from signing anyone.

On the other hand, if Pronger retires, the Flyers have to endure his cap hit for the duration of the contract (without the benefit of LTIR). So, for his well-being, you should hope that he sits back and gets healthy. For the Flyers well-being, you should hope that he decides not to file the paperwork with the league.

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05-09-2012, 11:08 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Basically, yes, you have it right, except that a team can exceed the salary cap by 10 percent during the offseason.

Essentially, Pronger's anticipated LTIR eats up that offseason cushion, but it shouldn't keep them from signing anyone.

On the other hand, if Pronger retires, the Flyers have to endure his cap hit for the duration of the contract (without the benefit of LTIR). So, for his well-being, you should hope that he sits back and gets healthy. For the Flyers well-being, you should hope that he decides not to file the paperwork with the league.
Wait, so if he has to retire because of injury, we still take that hit for the next 17 years he has left on his contract???!? I guess that makes sense. Weren't Hatcher and Rathje on the books for a few years after they were done?

Is there anything on the books about staying on LTIR for continuous years? Like, if he knows he can't play, can he do us a solid by not retiring?

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05-09-2012, 11:14 AM
  #112
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Wait, so if he has to retire because of injury, we still take that hit for the next 17 years he has left on his contract???!? I guess that makes sense. Weren't Hatcher and Rathje on the books for a few years after they were done?

Is there anything on the books about staying on LTIR for continuous years? Like, if he knows he can't play, can he do us a solid by not retiring?
Yes. He's a 35+ contract, so if he retires, for any reason, the Flyers have to endure the cap hit.

But it isn't just doing the Flyers a "solid." He doesn't get paid if he retires. He does if he stays on LTIR. Thus everyone assumes that, even if he never plays again, he won't formally retire until the conclusion of his contract.

There are rules about LTIR, but, as I understand it, he basically needs to go to the doctor every August, tell them he had a headache once during the previous 11 months, and that will probably be sufficient to maintain the PCS diagnosis. The League isn't going to challenge a Hall of Fame player's claim that he's been sidelined by a concussion--not in the current environment.

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05-09-2012, 11:17 AM
  #113
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ok, I had time to think about this season. Some good, some bad and some questions again.

Overall I give this team a (B)

With all the injuries, timing and issues the flyers played alot of rookies, who got valueable experience and playoff experience.

Byrzgalov's foot injury, prior to it he was playing very well, then he missed the rest of the reg season and looked poor in the playoffs. he played well in that final PIT game and did ok in NJ series, but he does have several issues and I hope he can turn it around.

Defense, no question about it was the major cause in our defeat.

Yes we had injuries, and everything but our D was terrible.

I give our D a D.

I couldnt help but watching alot of games season and playoffs where we turn the puck over alot in our zone.

Gustufsson made alot of those in my eyes. Simple clears off glass or boards and even at the blue line it self he would get caught. I hope he learns.

Overall the Offense was great until NJ series, there D and style of course haunts us. Of course marty decided to play like Marty.

The ghost of devils past once again, no matter how we shape our team defeats us.

Depending on what the cap space is, hopefully we have a season and not a lockout.

the flyers still have alot of cap issues, I expect someone to get traded if i had to guess now.

JVR is on the block.

Lastly, I wanted to talk to you all about the coaches.

Peter, has gotten the offense scoring, our D stuggles to recover when they F up.

so do we need new assistant coaches, with better teaching of D

anyways, I just paid off my balance and ready for my first season tickets.

I hope we have a season, overall happy with the rookies, and hope we gained alot of expeirence.

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Old
05-09-2012, 11:42 AM
  #114
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Yes. He's a 35+ contract, so if he retires, for any reason, the Flyers have to endure the cap hit.

But it isn't just doing the Flyers a "solid." He doesn't get paid if he retires. He does if he stays on LTIR. Thus everyone assumes that, even if he never plays again, he won't formally retire until the conclusion of his contract.

There are rules about LTIR, but, as I understand it, he basically needs to go to the doctor every August, tell them he had a headache once during the previous 11 months, and that will probably be sufficient to maintain the PCS diagnosis. The League isn't going to challenge a Hall of Fame player's claim that he's been sidelined by a concussion--not in the current environment.
OK, thanks for explaining. I thought if you had to retire because of injury, you still got paid, maybe not your full salary, but a percentage and then the team would recoup the money from insurance.

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05-09-2012, 11:44 AM
  #115
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i hate posting stuff like this, but imagine if our blueline would have been healthy?

Pronger-Carle
Grossmann-Coburn
Timonen-Mez

Lilja/Gus/Bourdon (kubina wouldnt have been acquired)


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05-09-2012, 11:46 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
i hate posting stuff like this, but imagine if our blueline would have been healthy?

Pronger-Carle
Grossmann-Coburn
Timonen-Mez

Lilja/Gus/Bourdon (kubina wouldnt have been acquired)

Neither would Grossmann.

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05-09-2012, 11:50 AM
  #117
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Neither would Grossmann.
why not? he has a low cap hit, we could have afforded it

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05-09-2012, 11:53 AM
  #118
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if jagr doesnt get signed then who else in fa would take his place for a descent contract?

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05-09-2012, 11:55 AM
  #119
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if jagr doesnt get signed then who else in fa would take his place for a descent contract?
if we want to sign Suter, probably no one. We look for someone from within to replace his productions

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05-09-2012, 12:12 PM
  #120
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if jagr doesnt get signed then who else in fa would take his place for a descent contract?
We have plenty of forward depth to let him walk.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Briere - JVR
Simmonds - Couturier - Read
Wellwood - Talbot - [FILLER].

(Make whatever lines you want, I just threw those together).

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05-09-2012, 12:32 PM
  #121
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In my opinion it was clear Jagr was either extremely hurt still and he was actually a liability late in the season. Sure he was still putting up points, but the fact remains he looked weak on the puck particularly in the Devils series.

I don't know if resigning him, let alone at 3.3 million is the best thing for this franchise moving forward. He had a positive effect on the players and it's obvious. But is that alone worth 3.3, when it could be used elsewhere?

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05-09-2012, 12:33 PM
  #122
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People keep talking about Pronger like he's some kind of god yet he missed most of last year and the team finished first in the conference. Management is stuck with Bryz, Briere and Pronger's contract so those are 3 big albatrosses. Pronger's contract counts this summer so that will impact free agent signings. Briere isn't going anywhere so the team needs to work around all those guys, and it has to start with defensive forwards and I would prefer a new coach. Giddy up and ****ing go hockey doesn't win you Stanley Cups.

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05-09-2012, 12:36 PM
  #123
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Soo Rick Nash?


Last edited by King Forsberg: 05-09-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old
05-09-2012, 12:41 PM
  #124
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People keep talking about Pronger like he's some kind of god yet he missed most of last year and the team finished first in the conference. Management is stuck with Bryz, Briere and Pronger's contract so those are 3 big albatrosses. Pronger's contract counts this summer so that will impact free agent signings. Briere isn't going anywhere so the team needs to work around all those guys, and it has to start with defensive forwards and I would prefer a new coach. Giddy up and ****ing go hockey doesn't win you Stanley Cups.
First, Pronger is arguably the 2nd best defenseman of his generation, and still one of the top 5 in the game before he got hurt.

Second, to take a page out of the Pens fan handbook:


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05-09-2012, 12:45 PM
  #125
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We have plenty of forward depth to let him walk.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Briere - JVR
Simmonds - Couturier - Read
Wellwood - Talbot - [FILLER].

(Make whatever lines you want, I just threw those together).

Those lines are very good.

Have to remember that G and jake are very young and will probably be better over the next few years. Obviously jvr will be better not site what that goes to. Couts I think wil have a soph slump but be fine and great later. Read as Simmonds will take a big jump up. Let's get suter or wait for weber later

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