HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Where does Swiss rank in international tournaments?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-09-2012, 10:56 AM
  #76
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Were basically the same level teams,and we are sure as hell stronger than belarus.
Grabovski, A. Kostitsyn and S. Kostitsyn are ahead of any player the Latvians have, while having equal depth players in the KHL to choose from. What sets them apart (when both ice their best possible teams) are those three forwards and the goaltender Koval (one of the best goalies in Europe).

They're on par with Denmark and Norway. Neither Norway or Latvia has the top end players that Denmark have (Nielsen, Hansen, Eller, Boedker, Regin, Larsen, Andersen), but both nations have better depth.

As for Germany, Latvia is certainly behind. Sure, they are close enough to beat them anytime, but Germany has many decent players in the DEL and some solid NHL'ers in Ehrhoff, Seidenberg, Goc, Hecht and Greiss. It was only two years ago that Germany played a bronze medal game at the World Championship stage, and they made the quarter finals last year as well.

Elvs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 10:59 AM
  #77
Paul DiPietro55
Registered User
 
Paul DiPietro55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lugano
Posts: 74
vCash: 500
Some people are seriously underrating Finland. Only because they don't seem to have too many fancy players doesn't mean they ain't a kick ass team.

Canada/Russia
Sweden/Finland
Czech/USA
Slovakia
Switzerland

Switzerland might have some talented youngsters, but they lack mental strength. That's the reason why they don't have too many NHL players and also why Reto von Arx and Michel Riesen never made it in North America.

Nino will have to prove he's got what it takes too... I'm still quite skeptical.

You got to understand in Switzerland players like Riesen and von Arx always receive special treatment.

Paul DiPietro55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:05 AM
  #78
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro Herregraven View Post
I'm sorry, but that really is nonsense. The system was designed to reflect the long-term quality of all national hockey programs and their commitment to international hockey.Those are done merely for comedic purposes, they hold no sports value whatsoever.Each team also has players missing during Olympic Games, so it's never an best on best, merely a best-available-at-that-moment on best-available-at-that-moment.
I don't think anyone here is putting too much weight on the IIHF rankings. If you want to put value in them then go ahead but I don't think they are good for much.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:10 AM
  #79
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
Based on the best current players belonging to each nation I would rank the top teams as follows:

1 CAN
2-3 SWE-USA
GAP
4 RUS
5 CZE
6 SVK
7 FIN
GAP
8 SUI
9 GER

Based on the best on best results from the last 20 years I would rank them as follows:

1 CAN
2 USA
3 SWE
4 CZE
5 FIN
6 RUS
7 SVK
8 SUI
9 GER

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:11 AM
  #80
Davebo
beep beep
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Stars View Post
Me and a friend are having a argument on where Swiss ranks in international tournaments out of the teams that participate, where would you rank them and would you say they are starting to become a dangerous opponent?

Is it fair to say they are ranked 6th underneath Canada, USA, Russia, Finland, Sweden?
7th, according to this....

http://www.iihf.com/competition/272/...p-ranking.html

Isn't that why we have these tournaments?

Davebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:12 AM
  #81
Ro Herregraven
Dutch hockey nut
 
Ro Herregraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Russia
- small gap -
4. Finland
5. Czech Republic
6. USA
7. Slovakia
- very small gap -
8. Switzerland
- significant gap -
9. Denmark
10. Germany
- small gap -
11. Belarus
12. Latvia
13. Norway

ranked only teams that matter
The IIHF World Ranking actually clearly shows how small (or big) the gaps are.

# Ranking Before 2012 WC Points Before 2012 WC Gap
1 Russia 3650
2 Finland 3630 20
3 Sweden 3630 0
4 Canada 3595 35
5 Czech Republic 3570 25
6 United States 3340 230
7 Switzerland 3240 100
8 Germany 3190 50
9 Norway 3175 15
10 Slovakia 3130 45
11 Belarus 3025 105
12 Latvia 2985 40
13 Denmark 2965 20
14 France 2765 200
15 Austria 2730 35
16 Kazakhstan 2615 115
17 Italy 2605 10
18 Slovenia 2565 40
19 Ukraine 2495 70
20 Hungary 2460 35
21 Great Britain 2250 210
22 Japan 2245 5
23 Poland 2215 30
24 Lithuania 2125 90
25 Netherlands 2080 45
26 Estonia 1940 140
27 Croatia 1890 50
28 Romania 1800 90
29 Spain 1785 15
30 Serbia 1755 30
31 Korea 1605 150
32 Bulgaria 1405 200
33 Mexico 1385 20
34 Australia 1350 35
35 Belgium 1180 170
36 Iceland 1125 55
37 Turkey 1110 15
38 New Zealand 1065 45
39 China 1060 5
40 Israel 885 175
41 Ireland 785 100
42 South Africa 740 45
43 Luxembourg 650 90
44 Greece 640 10
45 DPR Korea 485 155
46 Mongolia 315 170
47 United Arab Emirates 165 150
48 Bosnia and Herzegovina 50 115

For those unknown with how this ranking works: one spot difference in a tournament translates to a 20 point difference.

This shows that the Top 5 are actually very close together (even more so when you take the Pre-Championship Ranking of this year: The only way Russia can maintain it's #1 spot is by winning gold this year. If anyone else wins, Russia loses the #1 spot)

Between #5 CZE and #6 USA is an enormous gap.

#6 USA also still holds quite an edge over #7 Switzerland (so ranking Switzerland as a bona fide top 6 nation is clearly not right.

Germany, Norway and Slovakia are quite close in a group with Switzerland

Between Slovakia and Belarus is a big gap again. Belarus, Latvia and Denmark are close together.

Between Denmark and France is a huge gap. France and Austria are close.

Austria and Kazachstan are separated quite a bit (and are prenennial up&down countries, Italy is expectedly close to Kazachstan as well.

Slovenia and Hungary are always close to the ELite WC. Ukraine was relegated this year so they'll take a dive. Between the #20 and the #21 is again an huge gap. Off-topic: Expanding the WC would, in my opinion, only be wise from 16 to 20, and not any further, to prevent blow-outs.

Ro Herregraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:25 AM
  #82
Benedict Kovalchuk
Kovalchuk: A spy?
 
Benedict Kovalchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CASCADIA NOW
Country: Malta
Posts: 2,401
vCash: 500
I'd put it as something like this...

Canada/Russia/Sweden (negligible differences)
USA/Finland/Czech Republic (behind the top-3, serious contenders nonetheless)
Slovakia
Switzerland
Germany/Latvia
Norway/Denmark

Slovakia has a large number of their best players in the NHL, and as such unavailable for these tournaments. In my opinion, it is this top-end talent that separates them from the Swiss and allows one to consider a Slovak run to the finals not altogether shocking. Chara, Hossa, and Gaborik are names that put them ahead of the Swiss. That said, the Swiss are certainly not distantly behind them and are closing the gap. Steit and Hiller are great help, as I'm sure the upcoming Sbisa, Josi and Niederreiter will be in the coming years.

I'd consider both the Swiss and the Slovaks permanent fixtures along with the top-6.

Benedict Kovalchuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:27 AM
  #83
NewHopeForEveryone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: Lesotho
Posts: 404
vCash: 500
i lold on everyone who claim Switzerland is better than Czech or Slovak repre...

they are tough but not on our level...they can shut down better teams with their style but cant be compared in talent with those two

1.Canada/Sweden
2.Russia
3.Czech/Finland
4.USA
5.Slovakia
6.Switzerland/Belarus/Germany
7.Latvia
8.Norway/Denmark

NewHopeForEveryone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:30 AM
  #84
slovakiasnextone
Registered User
 
slovakiasnextone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvkInNHL View Post
i lold on everyone who claim Switzerland is better than Czech or Slovak repre...

they are tough but not on our level...they can shut down better teams with their style but cant be compared in talent with those two

1.Canada/Sweden
2.Russia
3.Czech/Finland
4.USA
5.Slovakia
6.Switzerland/Belarus/Germany
7.Latvia
8.Norway/Denmark
Have you watched Switzerland and Slovakia play recently? Because if you have, you must have noticed that Switzerland is actually playing an offensive game even against the better teams. It is Slovakia playing a similar kind of style like SWI used udner Kruger right now.

slovakiasnextone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:45 AM
  #85
croAVSfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Country: Croatia
Posts: 699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul DiPietro55 View Post
Some people are seriously underrating Finland. Only because they don't seem to have too many fancy players doesn't mean they ain't a kick ass team.

Canada/Russia
Sweden/Finland
Czech/USA
Slovakia
Switzerland

Switzerland might have some talented youngsters, but they lack mental strength. That's the reason why they don't have too many NHL players and also why Reto von Arx and Michel Riesen never made it in North America.

Nino will have to prove he's got what it takes too... I'm still quite skeptical.

You got to understand in Switzerland players like Riesen and von Arx always receive special treatment.
Never found out real reason why R.Von Arx and Riesen are not playing for Swiss team ?

croAVSfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:53 AM
  #86
Oyabun
Registered User
 
Oyabun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 770
vCash: 500
1. Canada
2. Sweden/Russia
3. Finland
4. USA/Czech
5. Slovakia
6. Switzerland
7. Latvia, Germany, Denmark , Norway, Belarus

I think these last 5 can play eachother without a very clear favorite. Denmark and Norway has improved greatly as of late.

Oyabun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:58 AM
  #87
QnebO
Registered User
 
QnebO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Finland
Posts: 4,546
vCash: 500
Based on main part of these comments I think Finland needs to change its junior coaching from good 2way defensive game to better mouthguard biting, cooler skating technique in the warmup and fancier dekes on the offensive blueline to raise its ranking.

QnebO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 11:59 AM
  #88
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,850
vCash: 500
From all the rankings it this thread, I think people quite underrate the US. I'd put them right behing Canada, Russia and Sweden. If not now, then in the near future for sure.

zorz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:01 PM
  #89
IHaveNoCreativity
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Somewhere in Quebec.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
Finland is worst of them even though it has 4 olympic medals of last 5 olympic games and World Championship from last year? I laughed, thought, not at your message, but straightly at you.

I rank your list last of everyone(lack of (f)intelligent) unless you even try to put some argument behind your words.
No no no they aren't the worst, that was just a massive typo, sorry I'll change that. I was kinda out of it, in a rusht this morning ad ya no no I don't have them last, never woulda notice if you hadn't of quote.

IHaveNoCreativity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:05 PM
  #90
IHaveNoCreativity
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Somewhere in Quebec.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by torero View Post
Contrary to your nickname, i think you have a lot of creativity !!

Cut on your creativity and put Finland back to where it belongs !
Sorry that was a brain fart, I meant to have them ahead of the czech and slovaks and behind USA..

IHaveNoCreativity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:10 PM
  #91
MMANumminen
Registered User
 
MMANumminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arctic Circle
Country: Finland
Posts: 615
vCash: 500
Finland is underrated since we don't have so many NHL'ers. This year we have 4. But really only player I miss is Selänne. We have many quality european players who are definitely NHL level.

Canada is always very bad opponent for us since they play similar style but have more quality especially in scoring department. So CAN-FIN is imo usually 60-40, other top 6 we are 50-50 and against Slovakia and Switzerland we are favorites 60-40. Plus we have the best goalies of all so we can steal any game

MMANumminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:28 PM
  #92
NewHopeForEveryone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: Lesotho
Posts: 404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Have you watched Switzerland and Slovakia play recently? Because if you have, you must have noticed that Switzerland is actually playing an offensive game even against the better teams. It is Slovakia playing a similar kind of style like SWI used udner Kruger right now.
yes ive seen Slovak play and no i havent seen Switzerland recently so today after Canada game maybe i will eat crow and withdraw my statement...

but till that time im still standing behind what i said

NewHopeForEveryone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:29 PM
  #93
Hockeyfrilla
Registered User
 
Hockeyfrilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMANumminen View Post
many quality european players who are definitely NHL level.
Can I see a list?

Hockeyfrilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:34 PM
  #94
cagney
cdojdmccjajgejncjaba
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
From all the rankings it this thread, I think people quite underrate the US. I'd put them right behing Canada, Russia and Sweden. If not now, then in the near future for sure.
It's not surprising considering how much we suck at the WC's. There are excuses that could be made but I still feel we should do better despite the factors working against us. Perhaps if we were more consistent at the best-on-best events we could garner more favor amongst the international hockey community but we've have some embarrassing showings from time to time (Torino, Nagano).

cagney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:37 PM
  #95
MMANumminen
Registered User
 
MMANumminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arctic Circle
Country: Finland
Posts: 615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Can I see a list?
Vehanen
Rämö
Väänänen
Kukkonen
Jaakola
Mäenpää
Järvinen
Immonen
Kapanen
Pihlström
Granlund
Komarov
Aaltonen
I. Filppula
Hahl
Lehterä
Ruutu

Most of them are not stars but could play in 3rd or 4th line in NHL. Reason they're not there is that if players are equal quality, NHL favors north american players

ps. 6-1

MMANumminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:37 PM
  #96
FiLe
Mr. Know-It-Nothing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Can I see a list?
Siim Liivik, Janne Kolehmainen, Markus Kankaanperä, Matti Höylä.

FiLe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:38 PM
  #97
Rabid Ranger
Imperiled Knight
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Abyss
Country: United States
Posts: 19,283
vCash: 500
What is everyone basing these rankings on-performance at the World Championships? If so, the U.S. might as well be at the bottom. In true "best on best" competition (such as the Olympics) I think we fare quite a bit better (at least in North America hosted games!). Here's how I'd rank the countries:

1) Canada
2) Sweden
3) Russia
4) U.S.
5) Finland
6) Czech Republic
7) Slovakia
8) Switzerland

Personally, I don't see a huge gap between 1-5. I think the Czechs are reasonably ahead of the Slovaks, and the Slovaks hold an edge over the Swiss. That could change though, with the Swiss on the rise and the Czech and Slovak federations on the skids.

Rabid Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:43 PM
  #98
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
It's not surprising considering how much we suck at the WC's. There are excuses that could be made but I still feel we should do better despite the factors working against us. Perhaps if we were more consistent at the best-on-best events we could garner more favor amongst the international hockey community but we've have some embarrassing showings from time to time (Torino, Nagano).
The US won the '96 WCup and made it to the final of the '91 CCup, '02 and '10 OG. That shows they are pretty consistently the number two team when it's best players show up. As you said their poor showings at the WC lead a lot of people to under estimate the US, but the only reason they do so poorly is because it is on the big ice every time and so many players don't come over.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:44 PM
  #99
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMANumminen View Post
Vehanen
Rämö
Väänänen
Kukkonen
Jaakola
Mäenpää
Järvinen
Immonen
Kapanen
Pihlström
Granlund
Komarov
Aaltonen
I. Filppula
Hahl
Lehterä
Ruutu

Most of them are not stars but could play in 3rd or 4th line in NHL. Reason they're not there is that if players are equal quality, NHL favors north american players

ps. 6-1
NHL teams only favour players that help them win, although the smaller ice surface does given North Americans a bit of an edge. I think a lot of people assume that players who couldn't quite make the top two lines on an NHL team could easily make the 3rd or 4th lines. I don't agree, in the NHL the top two lines are usually used for offense and the 3rd and fourth are shutdown lines, which require a different skill set that a lot of offensive players don't have.


Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 05-09-2012 at 12:50 PM.
Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2012, 12:50 PM
  #100
FiLe
Mr. Know-It-Nothing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
As you said their poor showings at the WC lead a lot of people to under estimate the US, but the only reason they do so poorly is because it is on the big ice every time and so many players don't come over.
Ah yes, "they would be better but the circumstances are always against them!" Heard that somewhere before.

Another funny thing is that some North Americans constantly complain how the big ice favors Europeans, but omit the fact that they get equally favored when the games are being held on small ice.

In the end, results > excuses, any given day.

FiLe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.