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Poll: What do you think happens with Jordan Staal?

View Poll Results: What do you think happens with Jordan?
Staal signs by August 1, 2012. 19 14.29%
Staal signs before training camp. 24 18.05%
Staal signs during the preseason. 5 3.76%
Staal signs during the season. 19 14.29%
Staal signs during the offseason in 2013. 4 3.01%
Staal is traded. 50 37.59%
Staal becomes a UFA and signs elsewhere. 12 9.02%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2012, 06:23 PM
  #51
McTank
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Anywho, I see no reason why Shero won't re-sign Staal. It's not like he deserves some massive pay raise anyway.
And thats exactly why he would leave to ufa for a MASSIVE pay raise

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05-08-2012, 06:57 PM
  #52
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You do realize he already makes 4 million per season right. He's not due a big raise. He should make less than James Neal or around that number anyhow. And NO more than that, if he's greedy than see ya bud. 5.5 to 5.75 per season, he is not a player worth over 6 million. If he shows he can get to 80-90 pts a season on the average his next contract could be 6-7+ million.
Mikko Koivu signed seven-year, $47 million contract extension in 2010. It's 6.7M per. I don't know why Staal could not sign a similar deal on open market.

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05-08-2012, 07:54 PM
  #53
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I have no clue what will happen, but I know paying Staal 6m a season to be anything but a
#2 center is a bad decision.
I'm not sure that paying Malkin 8.7 million per year to be a winger is any better, unfortunately.

Sometimes, maybe you just have to let go. We all knew this day would come. Malkin's emergence in his second year probably made it come sooner, but we're at the point where the Pens have three top two line centers and only two positions open. Shero won't give Staal away, but I think this is why he'll listen and why the team that steps up with a Richards/Carter+ return will get him (and I think a team will step up with just that).

Here's the funny thing:

1. If Bylsma used Sid and Geno like Sutter uses Richards and Kopitar, that would do a lot to mitigate the loss of Staal.

2. Yes, you lose the matchup advantage of Staal as your third center. But, here's a question: If you give Sid AND Geno both two good wingers each, then isn't that as good or perhaps better a matchup advantage? You'd have two lines with arguably the best player in hockey and two good wingers and a situation where pretty much every team is equipped to deal with one line like that at best.

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05-08-2012, 08:03 PM
  #54
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In spite of all my trade spitballing, I honestly think Staal will re-sign.

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05-08-2012, 08:15 PM
  #55
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And we are not the the Flyers who treat their players like dirt, either burying them in the minors or trading them off once they sign at a discounted rate. Which is why we get players to come here for less, or to resign for less.

If Staal is willing, Shero will resign him. But not to trade him, to keep him. The three center model does work.
Would be a nice thought of Martin making his 5 mil in the minors next season instead of in Pittsburgh. If we cant trade him.

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05-08-2012, 08:19 PM
  #56
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I voted that he will be traded. I would love to see him on the Pens as he's one of my favourite players, but I dont see him and Malkin working on a line, or Staal and Sid on a line. Staal deserves to be a top 6 player at this point and deserves a chance to get real powerplay minutes, sadly we just dont have room for it to happen with him at center.

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05-08-2012, 08:27 PM
  #57
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Would be a nice thought of Martin making his 5 mil in the minors next season instead of in Pittsburgh. If we cant trade him.
No movement clause . . . no can do.

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05-08-2012, 08:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
In spite of all my trade spitballing, I honestly think Staal will re-sign.
He may. I just don't see what the incentive might be. The Pens would need him to take maybe 1M or even more less than he could get on the open market where there will be no clarity about his role being anything more than 3C. He's got a ton to lose and next to nothing to gain by doing that. But, maybe it happens anyway.

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05-08-2012, 11:00 PM
  #59
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Best move would be to deal him for the Oilers number two pick OR trade him for a defensmen and a real goalie.

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05-09-2012, 06:58 AM
  #60
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Looking into this a bit more, i don't think Staal will be traded. Its just too difficult for the team to get a fair return with staal going UFA next year. Its basically a 1 year rental. And hes going to be a UFA in a year, probably 'THE' UFA next year, in that all 15 teams who bowed out of the playoffs will be taking a hard look at signing him.

7 mil per year for a 7 year contract wouldn't surprise me. It would be overpayment for what Staal brings now, but he could easily grow into that contract.

The Pens will resign him only if they make a commitment to giving him a top 6 role and top line PP time. Theres no reason for them not to do it at this point. Staal is a better investment then Kunitz. Give him the ice time.

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05-09-2012, 07:34 AM
  #61
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He'll be traded I think.

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05-09-2012, 07:37 AM
  #62
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Shero is not going to pay market price for Staal. Either what Staal says is true, and he leaves a good deal of money on the table to stay here, or Shero trades him, or he goes to free agency.

Staal's value is around 5-5.5 million dollars. His market value is probably a million more. This team can't afford that. His comparables, IMO, are Ryan Kesler (5.0), James Neal (5.0), Bobby Ryan (5.1), and Patrice Bergeron (5.0). People can say "well the cap is going up," but in reality, either Staal can sign a deal now with the Penguins at around 5 million, or he can wait until free agency when the new CBA will undoubtedly drop the cap down, and then the "cap going up" thing is moot anyways because it will be right back where it was when some of these guys signed. People can also look to the Grabovski deal, but IMO, Grabovski doesn't get that deal anywhere aside from Toronto.

I think Jordan stays, and gets a deal identical to James Neal's. That is a great number for him, puts him in a competitive salary bracket where guys similar to his skillset are making the same, puts him tied for 3rd on the team in overall salary (tied with Neal and Fleury who are core members of this team), and ensures that his place on this team is set for the foreseeable future.

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05-09-2012, 09:46 AM
  #63
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I said this in the other thread, but I think Staal is traded this summer, likely before the draft (if the Pens get a deal with a top pick involved) or after July 1st if not. I just think he wants to a be a top 2 center somewhere and he knows that will never be here.

Geno has said in the past he doesn't mind playing wing or he'll do whatever is best for the team (and Jordan has too), but at the end of the day, both want to be centers. Jordan knows this is a great team and organization, but they've been bounced from the playoffs the last 3 years early on and he figures there are other great teams that he can be successful with AND can give him the ideal role he is looking for. I don't think it is primarily about money for him (although who doesn't want more?), but about role, opportunity, and the "right fit". So I think he'd be willing to sign with a team before hitting free agency if it's the right situation.

From the Pen's perspective, we all thought this day may come where one of the big 3 wants out for a bigger role, more money, etc. We know we can't afford a 3rd line center at 6 mil. Staal knows this as well. He also knows Geno and Sid aren't likely to take significant discounts to give him the contract he feels he deserves.

I just can't envision a scenario where we keep Staal long term for 5.5 or under. So to me, trading him seems like the most likely scenario.

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05-09-2012, 11:26 AM
  #64
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I'm not getting the vibe that Jordan is looking for a bank breaking deal (yet), a bigger role, or anything like that. Maybe he's just saying the right things? I don't know. Or maybe he's really saying how he feels? I mean, he gets the minutes, and with some creativity, he could get the linemates too. I truly believe Jordan when he says things like he is completely happy here.

We'll see how his negotiations go though. I'll also be interested to see how Sid and Geno's contract negotiations go. Do they leave some more money on the table with the stipulation that it goes towards signing Staal? Does Geno switch over to wing to make room in the top 6 for Staal? I mean, none of us know what's going on in the front office or in that locker room.

For Staal, it isn't about getting paid. He's going to make money. It's really about him wanting to make what is the same value as other guys at his skill level, or him hitting free agency and being paid like a top line center.

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05-09-2012, 11:52 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I said this in the other thread, but I think Staal is traded this summer, likely before the draft (if the Pens get a deal with a top pick involved) or after July 1st if not. I just think he wants to a be a top 2 center somewhere and he knows that will never be here.

Geno has said in the past he doesn't mind playing wing or he'll do whatever is best for the team (and Jordan has too), but at the end of the day, both want to be centers. Jordan knows this is a great team and organization, but they've been bounced from the playoffs the last 3 years early on and he figures there are other great teams that he can be successful with AND can give him the ideal role he is looking for. I don't think it is primarily about money for him (although who doesn't want more?), but about role, opportunity, and the "right fit". So I think he'd be willing to sign with a team before hitting free agency if it's the right situation.

From the Pen's perspective, we all thought this day may come where one of the big 3 wants out for a bigger role, more money, etc. We know we can't afford a 3rd line center at 6 mil. Staal knows this as well. He also knows Geno and Sid aren't likely to take significant discounts to give him the contract he feels he deserves.

I just can't envision a scenario where we keep Staal long term for 5.5 or under. So to me, trading him seems like the most likely scenario.
I think that pretty much summarizes it. Push comes to shove, teams try to acquire him cheap, and Shero will just pay the 6M+ and deal with the cap fallout later. But, like you, I don't think it comes to that. The second Shero says 'I'm willing to listen', it's going to be a feeding frenzy. Forget Anaheim and St Louis and teams like that. You need a partner willing to pay Staal close to, maybe more than, the 7M he'll get as a UFA.

IMO, when the bidding starts and then progresses, Toronto, Minnesota, Carolina, Buffalo, Calgary, and Columbus definitely come to the dance. I could see Nashville, Florida, Winnipeg, and maybe even Montreal inquiring (the Islanders will, but I don't see Staal being moved in the division), where maybe one or two become bidders.

When it's all said and done, those Sutter + 8th overall types of offers, I think Shero will be sitting on 3-4 offers like that (where a team also adds an asset or is willing to take Martin with Staal). It's at that point that I think Shero will make one more squeeze to get one of those teams to pony up one more asset.

When it's all said and done, Staal will return more than Richards and more than Carter (that's how the laws of supply and demand work; the Flyers moved those two in the dark and limited the buyers to make a quick deal . . . Shero will draw it out to squeeze the highest price). It will be the type of return that will make many fans here of the team that gets Staal want to puke.

For the Pens, it will be a gamble, and one, maybe two of the assets COULD disappoint a little. But, that type of return is worth it IF Bylsma uses the acquired assets right and IF he's willing to use Sid and Geno right to offset the loss of Staal.

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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I'm not getting the vibe that Jordan is looking for a bank breaking deal (yet), a bigger role, or anything like that. Maybe he's just saying the right things? I don't know. Or maybe he's really saying how he feels? I mean, he gets the minutes, and with some creativity, he could get the linemates too. I truly believe Jordan when he says things like he is completely happy here.

We'll see how his negotiations go though. I'll also be interested to see how Sid and Geno's contract negotiations go. Do they leave some more money on the table with the stipulation that it goes towards signing Staal? Does Geno switch over to wing to make room in the top 6 for Staal? I mean, none of us know what's going on in the front office or in that locker room.

For Staal, it isn't about getting paid. He's going to make money. It's really about him wanting to make what is the same value as other guys at his skill level, or him hitting free agency and being paid like a top line center.
Mikko Kouvu makes 6.7M per. I'd suspect that Staal's agent is telling him that's the low barometer of his free agent value.

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05-09-2012, 11:56 AM
  #66
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I said this in the other thread, but I think Staal is traded this summer, likely before the draft (if the Pens get a deal with a top pick involved) or after July 1st if not. I just think he wants to a be a top 2 center somewhere and he knows that will never be here.

Geno has said in the past he doesn't mind playing wing or he'll do whatever is best for the team (and Jordan has too), but at the end of the day, both want to be centers. Jordan knows this is a great team and organization, but they've been bounced from the playoffs the last 3 years early on and he figures there are other great teams that he can be successful with AND can give him the ideal role he is looking for. I don't think it is primarily about money for him (although who doesn't want more?), but about role, opportunity, and the "right fit". So I think he'd be willing to sign with a team before hitting free agency if it's the right situation.

From the Pen's perspective, we all thought this day may come where one of the big 3 wants out for a bigger role, more money, etc. We know we can't afford a 3rd line center at 6 mil. Staal knows this as well. He also knows Geno and Sid aren't likely to take significant discounts to give him the contract he feels he deserves.

I just can't envision a scenario where we keep Staal long term for 5.5 or under. So to me, trading him seems like the most likely scenario.
Let's look at the extenuating circumstance here, what if the CBA pushes the salary cap way up or better yet there is no cap, why would Staal be traded? September 9th is the key date for everyone, including Shero to see who he can resign and at what price.

Who knows? He can be a part of the solution(as in he stays). There are so many possible ways to keep him on this team. Give him primary PP time, he can act like a Kesler for our PP, we don't have that type of presence.

E.g. Just look at the Kings Primary PP unit, 4 FWDs and a Offensive/Complete D.
They have:
Brown-Kopitar-Carter
Richards-Doughty

For us it could look like :
Neal-Crosby-Staal
Malkin-Tanger.

Another possibility is to give Staal, Dupuis as a winger on his 3rd line and let Crosby play with play with Tango and Sullivan.

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05-09-2012, 12:07 PM
  #67
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I think that pretty much summarizes it. Push comes to shove, teams try to acquire him cheap, and Shero will just pay the 6M+ and deal with the cap fallout later. But, like you, I don't think it comes to that. The second Shero says 'I'm willing to listen', it's going to be a feeding frenzy. Forget Anaheim and St Louis and teams like that. You need a partner willing to pay Staal close to, maybe more than, the 7M he'll get as a UFA.

IMO, when the bidding starts and then progresses, Toronto, Minnesota, Carolina, Buffalo, Calgary, and Columbus definitely come to the dance. I could see Nashville, Florida, Winnipeg, and maybe even Montreal inquiring (the Islanders will, but I don't see Staal being moved in the division), where maybe one or two become bidders.

When it's all said and done, those Sutter + 8th overall types of offers, I think Shero will be sitting on 3-4 offers like that (where a team also adds an asset or is willing to take Martin with Staal). It's at that point that I think Shero will make one more squeeze to get one of those teams to pony up one more asset.

When it's all said and done, Staal will return more than Richards and more than Carter (that's how the laws of supply and demand work; the Flyers moved those two in the dark and limited the buyers to make a quick deal . . . Shero will draw it out to squeeze the highest price). It will be the type of return that will make many fans here of the team that gets Staal want to puke.

For the Pens, it will be a gamble, and one, maybe two of the assets COULD disappoint a little. But, that type of return is worth it IF Bylsma uses the acquired assets right and IF he's willing to use Sid and Geno right to offset the loss of Staal.



Mikko Kouvu makes 6.7M per. I'd suspect that Staal's agent is telling him that's the low barometer of his free agent value.
And that may be true, but Mikko Koivu is a legitmate 1st line center. If Jordan Staal's agent is telling him that he's on the same level...well he's not a very good agent. Koivu got paid because he is Minnesota, he put up great point totals prior to signing the deal, and he is the captain of the squad.

There are much closer comparisons to Jordan Staal than Mikko Koivu.

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05-09-2012, 12:11 PM
  #68
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Interesting numbers, which is why I wanted to see a poll.

Just over half think that he will resign with the Pens, most thinking before the season starts. Just under half either think that he will be traded (most of those thinking that he will be gone) or leave via the UFA route.

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05-09-2012, 12:16 PM
  #69
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And that may be true, but Mikko Koivu is a legitmate 1st line center. If Jordan Staal's agent is telling him that he's on the same level...well he's not a very good agent. Koivu got paid because he is Minnesota, he put up great point totals prior to signing the deal, and he is the captain of the squad.

There are much closer comparisons to Jordan Staal than Mikko Koivu.
Mikko and Staal are like clones of each other. Very, very similar game played at about the same level. Any difference in production is accounted for, almost point for point, by Koivu playing on the first powerplay and Staal not playing on the first powerplay.

I actually don't think there's a closer comparison to Staal (in terms of similarity to his game) than Mikko Koivu. I'd say Zajac, but he's much meaner and nastier.

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05-09-2012, 12:26 PM
  #70
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Shero is not going to pay market price for Staal. Either what Staal says is true, and he leaves a good deal of money on the table to stay here, or Shero trades him, or he goes to free agency.

Staal's value is around 5-5.5 million dollars. His market value is probably a million more. This team can't afford that. His comparables, IMO, are Ryan Kesler (5.0), James Neal (5.0), Bobby Ryan (5.1), and Patrice Bergeron (5.0). People can say "well the cap is going up," but in reality, either Staal can sign a deal now with the Penguins at around 5 million, or he can wait until free agency when the new CBA will undoubtedly drop the cap down, and then the "cap going up" thing is moot anyways because it will be right back where it was when some of these guys signed. People can also look to the Grabovski deal, but IMO, Grabovski doesn't get that deal anywhere aside from Toronto.

I think Jordan stays, and gets a deal identical to James Neal's. That is a great number for him, puts him in a competitive salary bracket where guys similar to his skillset are making the same, puts him tied for 3rd on the team in overall salary (tied with Neal and Fleury who are core members of this team), and ensures that his place on this team is set for the foreseeable future.
I agree with almost everything you said, except I think Shero goes up to $5.5 for Staal to bridge the gap, and maybe goes to 7 or 8 years. I also think the deal may be slightly front-loaded with a substantial signing bonus in year #1 to further incentivize Jordan to sign, and also to give him some financial security of pay in the event of a work stoppage.

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05-09-2012, 12:45 PM
  #71
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I agree with almost everything you said, except I think Shero goes up to $5.5 for Staal to bridge the gap, and maybe goes to 7 or 8 years. I also think the deal may be slightly front-loaded with a substantial signing bonus in year #1 to further incentivize Jordan to sign, and also to give him some financial security of pay in the event of a work stoppage.
This is what I see. And we will not have to wait long to see it. Either he signs soon after he is able to, or he likely leaves. There really is not a lot to negotiate if both sides want a deal.

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05-09-2012, 01:03 PM
  #72
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Let's look at the extenuating circumstance here, what if the CBA pushes the salary cap way up or better yet there is no cap, why would Staal be traded? September 9th is the key date for everyone, including Shero to see who he can resign and at what price.

Who knows? He can be a part of the solution(as in he stays). There are so many possible ways to keep him on this team. Give him primary PP time, he can act like a Kesler for our PP, we don't have that type of presence.

E.g. Just look at the Kings Primary PP unit, 4 FWDs and a Offensive/Complete D.
They have:
Brown-Kopitar-Carter
Richards-Doughty

For us it could look like :
Neal-Crosby-Staal
Malkin-Tanger.

Another possibility is to give Staal, Dupuis as a winger on his 3rd line and let Crosby play with play with Tango and Sullivan.
No way, no how, not even a remote consideration by anyone. If the players go into negotiations asking that the cap be eliminated, there won't be any hockey until they back off that demand. The NHLPA, as a whole, are taking a pay cut, there is no doubt about that.

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05-09-2012, 01:10 PM
  #73
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No way, no how, not even a remote consideration by anyone. If the players go into negotiations asking that the cap be eliminated, there won't be any hockey until they back off that demand. The NHLPA, as a whole, are taking a pay cut, there is no doubt about that.
I wouldn't be so sure about them taking a pay cut.

The union is much stronger and more prepared finacially than they were in 04. Fehr doesn't play around.

The owners are more split this time around, and they are going to really be battling it out over revenue sharing. The big boys aren't happy with the current agrangement....

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05-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #74
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I wouldn't be so sure about them taking a pay cut.

The union is much stronger and more prepared finacially than they were in 04. Fehr doesn't play around.

The owners are more split this time around, and they are going to really be battling it out over revenue sharing. The big boys aren't happy with the current agrangement....
The outline of the CBA was set with the NFL and NBA at ~50% of revenue. I agree that Fehr will push for more revenue sharing and try to divide the owners on that issue. However, where I strongly disagree with you is the union being stronger. Fehr makes no difference unless all the players are on the same page, and there hasn't been any union solidarity since Eagleson. I will be downright shocked if the NHLPA doesn't fold again under pressure.

Also keep in mind that the reputation Fehr earned was in baseball, Bettman isn't Selig and the NHLPA isn't the MLBPA (the strongest sports union). This is the one situation where Bettman does have power. He has veto power over any CBA agreement and it requires a super-majority of owners to override him. The divide and conquer stategy that Fehr has used in the past could very well work against him this time.

While Fehr has certained earned his reputation, my money is on Bettman.

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05-09-2012, 02:03 PM
  #75
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One more thought. The new CBA is up in the air, which puts a lot of pressure on Shero, but also puts a lot of pressure on Staal and other teams. The cap could very well go down as owners look for greater revenue. If so, that not only will likely close the possibility of a team going all moron and offering Staal $7 million or $7.5 million long term, but will certainly close a lot of windows on any attractive option, as every team that is competitive will be close to the cap already and the change will effect them as well. Staal takes a huge risk in waiting, and may end up with far fewer viable options that he had hoped to have available.

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