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ECSF #5|May 8, 2012|Devils at Flyers |7:30 p.m. ET

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05-09-2012, 10:11 AM
  #901
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I've actually been defending Bryzgalov on the Clarkson goal. Everyone in the known hockey universe seems to be destroying Bryzgalov over that goal, but why isnt Timonen getting at least 50% of the abuse?

He KNOWS his goalie isnt very skilled at handling the puck, and yet he plays it back to his goalie?

Worse? Timonen wasn't really under much pressure and had at least 2 or 3 other "out" options on that play other than passing to his own goalie.

Even worse still? Timonen, a defenseman, then just allows Clarkson COMPLETE access to his goalie, while he inexplicably just peels off away into the corner for some bizarre reason. Timonen absolutely leaves Bryzgalov out to dry. NBC Sports was absolutely SAVAGING Bryzgalov after the game, but IMO, he was probably the Flyers best player this series. He stole Game 1 for sure, kept the Flyers in Game 3, and then he almost stole Game 4 as well. I feel bad for the guy for all the media taking a crap on him.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...ed-share-video
stop it. the Bryzhaters are not gonna like that. can't give Timonen 50% blame [like I did], because they need to blame Bryz 100%.

it HAS to be 'all Bryz' ... it's just the way it is here with the usual crew.

he was EASILY the best Flyer, the only Flyer to show up at the start of games & nearly single handedly stole 3 games.

but, he let in that 2nd goal in game 5, so the entire series and season is all his fault.

forget an unbiased Devils fan's views, they'll sleep much better at night if they can blame everything on Bryz.

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05-09-2012, 10:35 AM
  #902
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The cup's hard to win man. Feel like an idiot for thinking this was the year. Oh well... I mean I guess we can all take solace in the fact we beat Pittsburgh, right?

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05-09-2012, 10:37 AM
  #903
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Blaming Timonen at all for that goal is completely asinine.

NHL goaltender should be expected to make simple plays with the puck. He had many safe options and decided to chuck it directly into an oncoming player. Let's stop with the excuses

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05-09-2012, 10:44 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Blaming Timonen at all for that goal is completely asinine.

NHL goaltender should be expected to make simple plays with the puck. He had many safe options and decided to chuck it directly into an oncoming player. Let's stop with the excuses
Exactly, he could of easily wrapped it around the net to get it out of there.. but lets blame timonen that his goalie can't handle the puck better than a bantam.

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05-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Blaming Timonen at all for that goal is completely asinine.

NHL goaltender should be expected to make simple plays with the puck. He had many safe options and decided to chuck it directly into an oncoming player. Let's stop with the excuses
bottom line: Bryz is NOT good with the puck. some NHL goalies are not. and even Marty [arguably the BEST with the puck] made 5 errors this series.

I know he's not good & you know he's not good & Timonen knows he's not good.

what is asinine is to not recognize that were TWO aspects to that play and TWO mistakes:

in chronological order:
1. Timonen, who wasn't really under much pressure and had at least 2 or 3 other "out" options, passing to his own goalie, then letting Clarkson go in on Bryz free and clear.
2. Bryz for not freezing it. [do not want him trying to play it, anywhere, needs to freeze it, just in case Timonen needed a stop - in which case Timonen needs to yell GET A STOP or FREEZE IT - something to tell Bryz what he was thinking.]

let's stop with ignoring the facts.

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05-09-2012, 11:12 AM
  #906
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Come in peace. Just wanted to say good series and that this was not easy at all for the Devils, regardless that it ended in 5 games. You guys were the last team I wanted to play in the East.

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05-09-2012, 11:43 AM
  #907
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Blaming Timonen for Bryzgalov's blunder is totally nonsensical. Let's say Giroux passes to Carle. Carle immediately turns it over for a breakaway and goal. Is that goal Giroux's fault? I mean, he ought to know that Carle is bad with turnovers.

Bryzgalov had several options. He chose the worst one. That's on Bryz, not Timonen.

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05-09-2012, 11:56 AM
  #908
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Come in peace. Just wanted to say good series and that this was not easy at all for the Devils, regardless that it ended in 5 games. You guys were the last team I wanted to play in the East.
1. It was a terrible series.

2. It was extremely easy for the Devils.

3. We should have been the team you wanted to play.

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05-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Blaming Timonen for Bryzgalov's blunder is totally nonsensical. Let's say Giroux passes to Carle. Carle immediately turns it over for a breakaway and goal. Is that goal Giroux's fault?
No, It's the goalie's fault. You have already established that.

Giroux passes to Timonen. Timonen immediately turns it over for a breakaway and goal.



Your need to absolve Timonen (and Giroux) of any blame for that goal pretty much makes it crystal clear that you'll not blame anything on them.

You know?

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05-09-2012, 01:05 PM
  #910
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Ok, let's try this, since you are eager to ignore my point and argue a completely different one.

There's an empty damned net. Giroux passes to Carle. Carle does something stupid, and turns it over for the goal that finishes the game.

Is that Giroux's fault? Or Carle's?

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05-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #911
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Just to chime in as a "bryz defender"...100% Bryz once it was to him. Play it to the corner fast....watching the vid, he's looking down and by the time he's shooting Carlson is there.
KT should have shot it behind the net though...
Bottom line is, bad goal...but we still had two periods to get it back...

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05-09-2012, 03:28 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Ok, let's try this, since you are eager to ignore my point and argue a completely different one.

There's an empty damned net. Giroux passes to Carle. Carle does something stupid, and turns it over for the goal that finishes the game.

Is that Giroux's fault? Or Carle's?
phffft, come on we all know its the towel boys fault/..


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05-09-2012, 03:35 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Just to chime in as a "bryz defender"...100% Bryz once it was to him. Play it to the corner fast....watching the vid, he's looking down and by the time he's shooting Carlson is there.
KT should have shot it behind the net though...
Bottom line is, bad goal...but we still had two periods to get it back...
too nuanced

it just has to be someone's fault

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05-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #914
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too nuanced

it just has to be someone's fault
What, so nobody is at fault now?


Actually...that's very zen.

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05-09-2012, 04:40 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
What, so nobody is at fault now?


Actually...that's very zen.
i beleive the default person to blame is Leighton still is it not ???

or is that passee now ?

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05-09-2012, 09:16 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Not impressed with Laviolette's press conference after the game I just caught on the NHL network. Basically from my interpretation he really had no clue how to counteract the Devils. Like he said it was a "different series" yet he didn't know how to adjust differently IMO. They also asked him why he couldn't figure out how to beat the Rangers which was interesting...

I personally think the Devils just watched tape of Tampa and Rangers and had the players to employ similar strategies to a T due to personnel with 4 strong lines. ...

Oh and he also acknowledged how much of a killer that 2nd goal was for morale......regardless of whose fault it was although it was a shared screw up between Timonen and Bryz IMO...
Well..it was pretty obvious..at team dominates and frustrates you and so you try and replicate it...go figure. Hopefully Lavi figures something out.....

Quote:
Kimmo Timonen:

"Well, they played their system to the maximum I think. There really weren’t any breakdowns, you know. There weren’t any easy goals going in. We had to work on every puck and every battle. They really did a great job. They played like the Rangers, I think the same way. There is something to it, we didn't beat the Rangers this year at all, so we have to find a way to beat those guys the way they play and you know obviously the Pittsburgh series was up and down and that's good for us because we can score early and if there's any turnovers. There were a lot of mistakes in that series and there were a lot of goals too, but teams who were playing really tight defense like these guys and the Rangers, we had a tough time this year."

Scott Hartnell:

"They were stingy. They were tight. You had to fight for every inch of ice that you got. When you had some time and space in the offensive zone, it seemed like they closed pretty fast. You had to make plays fast and it seemed like they were a step forward the whole series.

"They played a lot like the Rangers. We got the puck in the corner on a soft chip and it seemed like they had four guys on you in the corner. It is probably one of the biggest reasons why we couldn't beat the Rangers this year. They just smothered you, three or four guys on you in the zone. It was tough to make plays when your back is against the wall or out in the ice. It is definitely frustrating, but we did have chances. We had a post there and Danny [Briere] on a cough up by [Martin] Brodeur and if that goes in that could have been a whole different story."

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Tim-P...nation/2/44345

oh and this


Quote:
The Flyers struggled against defensively disciplined system teams most of the season. Peter Laviolette changed personnel around against New Jersey but tactical adjustments were either lacking or simply not executed very well. Either which way, the coach has to take a share of the blame. Pete DoBoer outcoached Laviolette in the series.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...cuses/45/44335

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05-10-2012, 12:02 AM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
bottom line: Bryz is NOT good with the puck. some NHL goalies are not. and even Marty [arguably the BEST with the puck] made 5 errors this series.

I know he's not good & you know he's not good & Timonen knows he's not good.

what is asinine is to not recognize that were TWO aspects to that play and TWO mistakes:

in chronological order:
1. Timonen, who wasn't really under much pressure and had at least 2 or 3 other "out" options, passing to his own goalie, then letting Clarkson go in on Bryz free and clear.
2. Bryz for not freezing it. [do not want him trying to play it, anywhere, needs to freeze it, just in case Timonen needed a stop - in which case Timonen needs to yell GET A STOP or FREEZE IT - something to tell Bryz what he was thinking.]


let's stop with ignoring the facts.
Yup, I pretty much see it exactly as the above. Also, obviously we all were watching NBC Sports in America, but I've since seen the CBC Canada feed of that play (which I'm too lazy to look for and post), and the Canada guys were "WTH was Timonen thinking" if you watch the tape.

EDIT: And the Devils DO NOT "play like the Rangers", maybe in the strong board play, but that's about it. The Ranges make NO attempt to score, and Neutral Zone trap for 60 minutes. The Devils have a decent, balanced offense, and send TWO, sometimes even THREE forecheckers aggressively deep into the offensive zone to "flush out" and pretty relentlessly attack the opposing team's defense. That's pretty unique, and definitely not the "safe for 60 minutes and take zero chances" style the Rangers play.

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05-10-2012, 12:05 AM
  #918
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I was one of the few back in February who thought this team wouldnt make the playoffs. Then after March I was drinking the kool aid, I was wrong. But a Cup is coming our way in the near future.

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05-10-2012, 12:31 AM
  #919
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I am done talking about the game on Tuesday night and certian things that happened because quite frankly it pisses me the hell off thinking about it. Especially the 2nd goal.

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05-10-2012, 01:03 AM
  #920
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That wasn't the first time the defensemen had used Bryz as an option. He had the puck passed back to him on many occasions this year.

He also had plenty of time. Sure, Kimmo could have chosen another option, but it's not like this was the first time Bryz had ever touched the puck. He could have frozen it, if he was lacking any confidence in playing the puck.

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05-10-2012, 01:05 AM
  #921
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He had a wide open pass to Coburn. He could have covered it. He could have played it back to the boards. He could have just launched it to center ice. He could have done basically anything else BUT chip it straight at the incoming Devil, yet that is what he did. Why? I don't know.

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05-11-2012, 09:50 AM
  #922
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
He had a wide open pass to Coburn. He could have covered it. He could have played it back to the boards. He could have just launched it to center ice. He could have done basically anything else BUT chip it straight at the incoming Devil, yet that is what he did. Why? I don't know.
Never mind with that logic stuff. It's Kimmo's fault.

Considering the Flyers scored three times and the Devils scored once, it's a hell of a way to be ushered out of a series.

Having said that, and as much as I hate how the Flyers went out, it would have sucked a thousand times worse to be put out by the Pens.

This season was an up and down one, with some positives, some negatives, and some WTF moments.

Another year in the books. Bring on next season.

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05-11-2012, 08:46 PM
  #923
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05-11-2012, 08:55 PM
  #924
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Blaming Timonen for Bryzgalov's blunder is totally nonsensical.
there were TWO aspects to that play and TWO blunders:

in chronological order:
1. Timonen, who wasn't really under much pressure and had at least 2 or 3 other "out" options, passing to his own goalie, then letting Clarkson go in on Bryz free and clear.

I blame Timonen for his error.


2. Bryz for not freezing it. [do not want him trying to play it, anywhere, needs to freeze it, just in case Timonen needed a stop - in which case Timonen needs to yell GET A STOP or FREEZE IT - something to tell Bryz what he was thinking.]

I blame Bryz for his error.

50% each.

what is nonsensical, is people trying so hard to ONLY blame 1 player, when both were at fault.

not that it's surprising, though.

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05-11-2012, 08:58 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
He had a wide open pass to Coburn. He could have covered it. He could have played it back to the boards. He could have just launched it to center ice. He could have done basically anything else BUT chip it straight at the incoming Devil, yet that is what he did. Why? I don't know.
Timinen had 3 options, too:

dump it behind the net
skate it behind the net
chip it up the boards out of the zone

He could have done basically anything else BUT dump it back to a goalie he knows struggles with puck handling, yet that is what he did. Why? I don't know.

again, 2 players goofed. but go ahead, only blame Bryz ...

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