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Gomez to be bought out? - Louis Jean on FAN 590

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05-09-2012, 01:31 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Of course, having said that, $10 million is a lot to pay to bury someone in the AHL while handcuffing yourself with only 49 contracts to continue rebuilding the rest of the organization in the meantime.
Unless they can trade him outright, it will cost at least 6.67 mil anyways, so "burying him" only costs 3.33 mil more and a contract. That's a tiny price to pass for 8 mil more of cap room over 2 years.

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05-09-2012, 01:38 PM
  #427
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I say give Gomez another season.

None of the options outside of a "loaning" him to another team are enticing at all. And that one seems unlikely to happen. Gomez would have to give his consent and why would he want to do that?

Unless...can you "loan" guys to ECHL teams? Maybe the Alaskan team would take him? He's from there, could just go back and relax and cash his cheques for the next 2 years.

If ECHL loaning is a possibility that gets my vote, other than that just keep the guy, hope he stays half healthy and plays okay and without a doubt a team would claim him on re-entry waivers next season, or even later in this season.

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05-09-2012, 01:39 PM
  #428
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Unless they can trade him outright, it will cost at least 6.67 mil anyways, so "burying him" only costs 3.33 mil more and a contract. That's a tiny price to pass for 8 mil more of cap room over 2 years.
Yeah, from an owner's standpoint I really don't see how buying him out is more enticing than burying him.

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05-09-2012, 01:56 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Yeah, from an owner's standpoint I really don't see how buying him out is more enticing than burying him.
The thing is the owner will have to pay his full contract in the minors PLUS be pressured to spend to the cap, so it's really more then just 3.33 M. It's spend to the cap (63M?) +10M over 2 seasons for an AHL player.

Not that I care, but Molson might.

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05-09-2012, 01:58 PM
  #430
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The thing is the owner will have to pay his full contract in the minors PLUS be pressured to spend to the cap, so it's really more then just 3.33 M. It's spend to the cap (63M?) +10M over 2 seasons for an AHL player.

Not that I care, but Molson might.
Yeah but when you consider that the Habe have gross revenue of around 200 mil, 5 mil/year is not that big. Plus if as an owner you have confidence that your GM can get you in the playoffs, then that's another 4-15 mil that you may be able to tap into as revenue.

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05-09-2012, 02:04 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yeah but when you consider that the Habe have gross revenue of around 200 mil, 5 mil/year is not that big. Plus if as an owner you have confidence that your GM can get you in the playoffs, then that's another 4-15 mil that you may be able to tap into as revenue.
Agreed. It just depends what they want to do next year. Do they want to make a run? Or use this as a transition year and sell some pieces? If their plan isn't to make a cup run, may they want to take the high road and keep "Mr Gomez" one more year, then the next year, buy him out at a much more reasonable rate/time frame. Molson is Mr Good Guy lately (Listening to the fans, Cammy's sweater etc).

What's he getting for his last year? 4.5M ? 2/3 x 4.5M /2y = 1.5M over 2 years, right? That doesn't sound so bad.

On the other hand, if they want to do a 1 year turn around, they may just say "bye-bye", by whatever means necessary.


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05-09-2012, 02:10 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Agreed. It just depends what they want to do next year. Do they want to make a run? Or use this as a transition year and sell some pieces? If their plan isn't to make a cup run, may they want to take the high road and keep "Mr Gomez" one more year, then the next year, buy him out at a much more reasonable rate/time frame. Molson is Mr Good Guy lately (Listening to the fans, Cammy's sweater etc).

What's he getting for his last year? 4.5M ? 2/3 x 4.5M /2y = 1.5M over 2 years, right? That doesn't sound so bad.

On the other hand, if they want to do a 1 year turn around, they may just say "bye-bye", by whatever means necessary.
No David, it's 4.5 for the first year and 1.333 for the 2nd year if he's bought out next Summer

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05-09-2012, 02:10 PM
  #433
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Agreed. It just depends what they want to do next year. Do they want to make a run? Or use this as a transition year and sell some pieces? If their plan isn't to make a cup run, may they want to take the high road and keep "Mr Gomez" one more year, then the next year, buy him out at a much more reasonable rate/time frame. Molson is Mr Good Guy lately (Listening to the fans, Cammy's sweater etc).

On the other hand, if they want to do a 1 year turn around, they may say "bye-bye", by whatever means necessary.

Edit: What's he getting for his last year? 4.5M ? 2/3 x 4.5M /2y = 1.5M over 2 years, right? That doesn't sound so bad.
Even if you want to keep Gomez the only logical move to slot him in would be to move Eller to wing.

Both Molson and Bergevin seem to point towards improving the team right away, hopefully not at the expense of top prospects for shortcuts.

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05-09-2012, 02:12 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
No David, it's 4.5 for the first year and 1.333 for the 2nd year if he's bought out next Summer
REALLY!?! Hope he likes Hamilton...

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05-09-2012, 02:16 PM
  #435
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REALLY!?! Hope he likes Hamilton...
Do we want Scott gomez and his negative mantra around our young players in hamilton? Man this is such a messed up situation.

Can we send him to russia or something?

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05-09-2012, 02:18 PM
  #436
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Can we send him to russia or something?
Can't we send him to Hamilton, then plant a baggy on him and suspend him without pay for 2 years?

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05-09-2012, 02:20 PM
  #437
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All of this helps underline why I wouldn't mind the buyout. I mean, yeah, it would be better for us cap-wise if there was a minor league exile instead. But then... Gomez is still technically "around", still a topic of discussion if he's doing well in Hamilton and we get to the point of inevitably needing to call somebody up. I'd rather just have it "over" with. A lingering cap hit for 4 years might just be less painful.
Nobody would consider calling up Gomez. He'd have to clear re-entry waivers where he would almost assuredly be claimed. If Gomez goes down there would be no discussion of him ever coming back. Just like Redden in New York.

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05-09-2012, 02:22 PM
  #438
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Do we want Scott gomez and his negative mantra around our young players in hamilton? Man this is such a messed up situation.

Can we send him to russia or something?
You can waiuve him and give him the option of playing wherever he wants.

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05-09-2012, 02:28 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by shamrun View Post
Do we want Scott gomez and his negative mantra around our young players in hamilton? Man this is such a messed up situation.

Can we send him to russia or something?
Don't agree with what you said because I think Gomez is a pro and he wouldn't cause a ****storm in Hamilton ala Sean Avery, but the Habs could loan him to another AHL team than Hamilton like the Oilers did with Souray. Maybe Lamoriello would bring him back in their organisation?

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05-09-2012, 04:45 PM
  #440
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Don't agree with what you said because I think Gomez is a pro and he wouldn't cause a ****storm in Hamilton ala Sean Avery, but the Habs could loan him to another AHL team than Hamilton like the Oilers did with Souray. Maybe Lamoriello would bring him back in their organisation?
Would be a good replacement for Parise

who we will take!

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05-09-2012, 05:21 PM
  #441
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For me, not sending Gomez in the AHL is not about him being a bad influence on the team. First, people no **** about how he'd react. Seems he's a nice guy all around, yet that event in his life, we don't know how he'll react. Seems Redden though is doing a good job...why not Gomez?

Yet, I believe that Bergevin MIGHT want to buy his contract based on the fact that he wuold not like to have that distraction and give his new coach a clean slate and really start over.

Though, the funny part is....and what if we buy-out Gomez and suddenly he starts "racking" the points yet again? As if the ex-habs thread needs more things to fill it out....My scenario is that you keep Gomez and make him win his spot. He ends up deserving it...well he stays. He doesn't? Well he's in the AHL. I hope Bergevin thinks that way. I hope that he doesn't feel all obligated to do so for the sake of the Habs being a classy team and so on....it is business after all.

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05-09-2012, 05:23 PM
  #442
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Any chance a poor team like Dallas would take him just so they can reach the cap floor without having to spend the money?

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05-09-2012, 05:27 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
For me, not sending Gomez in the AHL is not about him being a bad influence on the team. First, people no **** about how he'd react. Seems he's a nice guy all around, yet that event in his life, we don't know how he'll react. Seems Redden though is doing a good job...why not Gomez?

Yet, I believe that Bergevin MIGHT want to buy his contract based on the fact that he wuold not like to have that distraction and give his new coach a clean slate and really start over.

Though, the funny part is....and what if we buy-out Gomez and suddenly he starts "racking" the points yet again? As if the ex-habs thread needs more things to fill it out....My scenario is that you keep Gomez and make him win his spot. He ends up deserving it...well he stays. He doesn't? Well he's in the AHL. I hope Bergevin thinks that way. I hope that he doesn't feel all obligated to do so for the sake of the Habs being a classy team and so on....it is business after all.
I respect your opinion but there is ZERO chance Gomez will be at training camp wit the Habs. Buying him out and having him on your cap for 4 more years is insane. The only place he belongs is Hamilton.
Gomez Is not a **** disturber and I personally dont believe he will created problems in Hamilton. Wade Redden hasnt said boo in Connecticut and I would expect the same professionalism From Gomez.
The Habs have carried his butt for 2 years, he will have to except the demotion like a man!

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05-09-2012, 05:49 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
.My scenario is that you keep Gomez and make him win his spot. He ends up deserving it...well he stays. He doesn't? Well he's in the AHL.
Problem with this approach is that the team would basically have to come to camp with a $56M payroll to leave cushion for Gomez. If Gomez doesn't make the roster and gets sent down, the team then sits $7-8M under the cap and nothing to spend it on. If the team goes out and signs a couple of 2nd tier FAs (not even considering Suter/Parise) Gomez making the team would push the payroll over the cap.

The team will have to decide by July 1 whether they intend to bury Gomez or not.

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05-09-2012, 05:55 PM
  #445
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Pacioretty 2 year ago was a AHL player...not the same player ok?
So when Gomez played with him he was AHL'er /

Darche was always a 4th line /AHLer
Poulliot another 2 yr he wont be in NHL .When he played with Gomez he couldn't make the WILD!
Poulliot was so good Habs let him walk.....was that MR Gomez fault?


Cammy played on his line with a height of 5.'6,5'8 and 5'10
None of them hit....Cammy his wing man 17 hits all year? ya that's a space opener right there.
And a hit from Gionta is one to fear?
Like lets get real ....


It's been trash from day 1 for him ..
He came from playing with JAGR! to Poulliot and Darche ...LMAO ..
Lets put Claude Giroux with DARCHE INSTEAD of Jagr....

Montreal set it up to fail.

You take a guy who is a set up man(Gomez) and give him ahl hands to pass to ?????

You take a set up man(Gomez) who is under 6 ft and give him 2 line mates of 5.6 and 5-8 and un physical ???

Then wonder what is wrong?

Stupid
Desharnais produced with Pouliot, Pyatt, Darche, and White... What's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
The thing is the owner will have to pay his full contract in the minors PLUS be pressured to spend to the cap, so it's really more then just 3.33 M. It's spend to the cap (63M?) +10M over 2 seasons for an AHL player.

Not that I care, but Molson might.
He would pay the 63M + 6.7M the other way so it really is saving just 3.3.

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05-09-2012, 06:17 PM
  #446
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I respect your opinion but there is ZERO chance Gomez will be at training camp wit the Habs. Buying him out and having him on your cap for 4 more years is insane. The only place he belongs is Hamilton.
Gomez Is not a **** disturber and I personally dont believe he will created problems in Hamilton. Wade Redden hasnt said boo in Connecticut and I would expect the same professionalism From Gomez.
The Habs have carried his butt for 2 years, he will have to except the demotion like a man!
Well to send him in Hamilton, he'll need to be at training camp, unless we change our approach this year and it's not everybody who makes it. If it's still the same, you can't send Gomez in Hamilton when there's actually nobody in Hamilton. And frankly, you will have to give him a fair shot at making it. Though all the distraction, and all this "the habs are too classy" makes me believe there is a change we buy him out. Unfortunately.

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05-09-2012, 06:26 PM
  #447
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Problem with this approach is that the team would basically have to come to camp with a $56M payroll to leave cushion for Gomez. If Gomez doesn't make the roster and gets sent down, the team then sits $7-8M under the cap and nothing to spend it on. If the team goes out and signs a couple of 2nd tier FAs (not even considering Suter/Parise) Gomez making the team would push the payroll over the cap.

The team will have to decide by July 1 whether they intend to bury Gomez or not.
while I certainly would prefer the decision to bury him be made prior to July 1st, and that the team used it's cap space as if he weren't going to be on the roster (as other teams have done), as a close second option WS's take is bang on.

while it would limit things this summer a bit by only spending to ~56M$ (+cap increase), short of having a real shot at Parise (or Suter), we should still be able to resign the guys we want, and target a player or two in trade/ufa.

It would also force Bergie to be creative in finding ways to upgrade the roster, a bit of "trial by fire" if you will, and how he manages that will give us a strong early indication of what kind of GM we have on our hands.

the "upside", is that if he doesn't make the team, then we send him to the AHL and have a huge amount of cap space going into the season (which can be useful approaching the deadline, as "budget" teams that are falling out of the playoff race look to save money/unload contracts), and with several big name players tentatively UFA's in 2013, it makes it easier to put together an offer should any of them get put on the trade market (the way Kovalchuk or Hossa have been in the past).


there would have to be a caveat though... he'd have to make the team as a top-9 player (which seems very unlikely), and he'd have to do so in a convincing enough manner to justify sending Leblanc back to the AHL to start the year (or perhaps Bourque, if he struggles badly in camp).

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05-09-2012, 06:35 PM
  #448
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Can't imagine what people will say if Bergevin buy him out especially after Bob McKenzie's tirade about "The guy who does that should be fired immediately".....Hey Bob...it's just that we just hired the guy....

Personnally, I would have been harsher on the guy who actually GOT the said Gomez than the guy who has to get rid of it but that's just me....

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05-09-2012, 07:34 PM
  #449
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while I certainly would prefer the decision to bury him be made prior to July 1st, and that the team used it's cap space as if he weren't going to be on the roster (as other teams have done), as a close second option WS's take is bang on.

while it would limit things this summer a bit by only spending to ~56M$ (+cap increase), short of having a real shot at Parise (or Suter), we should still be able to resign the guys we want, and target a player or two in trade/ufa.

It would also force Bergie to be creative in finding ways to upgrade the roster, a bit of "trial by fire" if you will, and how he manages that will give us a strong early indication of what kind of GM we have on our hands.

the "upside", is that if he doesn't make the team, then we send him to the AHL and have a huge amount of cap space going into the season (which can be useful approaching the deadline, as "budget" teams that are falling out of the playoff race look to save money/unload contracts), and with several big name players tentatively UFA's in 2013, it makes it easier to put together an offer should any of them get put on the trade market (the way Kovalchuk or Hossa have been in the past).


there would have to be a caveat though... he'd have to make the team as a top-9 player (which seems very unlikely), and he'd have to do so in a convincing enough manner to justify sending Leblanc back to the AHL to start the year (or perhaps Bourque, if he struggles badly in camp).
Barring moves on the other burdensome contracts like Kaberle or Bourque, I think $56M pretty much brings back the same roster as last year.

Forwards: About $21M committed to Plek/Gio/Cole/Bourque/Max/DD.
Defense: About $15M committed to Markov/Kabs/Gorges/Weber
Goal: Budaj about $1M, so $37M total, and about $20M more to get to $57M to save room for Gomez.

Price will get $5-6M, PK will get $3M, Emelin/Eller/White let's say $4M for the three of them, so now you have $7-8M to sign a defenseman and four forwards. Not a lot of wiggle room there and barring finding some unknown gem I don't think you'd get much improvement over last year's team.

The only way I see bringing Gomez to camp is that the team is 99% committed to sending him down but have him around b/c they are exploring a trade involving Plekanec, but in that case the team would likely have made a couple of UFA purchases and would come in with a low-60's (non Gomez) payroll knowing they'd be rid of one or the other.

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05-09-2012, 08:21 PM
  #450
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Yeah, from an owner's standpoint I really don't see how buying him out is more enticing than burying him.
Saving real dollars at the expense of a bit of potential asset acquisition power, instead of spending more real dollars finding a use for a depreciated and unproductive asset, shouldn't be that hard to understand from an owner's standpoint. From a GM's standpoint, the remaining cap room, even with a buyout, should leave the Habs on more than competitive enough footing, depending on the many different possible decisions which could be made between the draft and free agency.

I think you underestimate how quickly owners of businesses are willing to get rid of costly and unproductive assets that have a quantifiable and negative impact on flexibility, especially when we're talking millions of dollars. Burying him might be ideal in a lot of ways, but it might also turn out to be unfeasible or simply undesirable for either side.

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