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Pierre Gauthier didnít like Ryan McDonagh

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Old
05-08-2012, 08:51 PM
  #226
habitue*
 
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I've also learned on this thread that Timmins wanted to draft Carlson and didn't want to draft Fischer.

I don't know if that's true.

If it's true, then I hope Bergevin keeps Timmins beyond the draft. Right now he's only committed to Timmins through to the draft.
Fischer and Carlson were not drafted the same year....

Fischer in 2006 and Carlson in 2008.

in 2008, Habs gave their 1st pick fro Tanguay. Carlson would had been available if they would had kept their 1st pick.

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05-08-2012, 08:53 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Fischer and Carlson were not drafted the same year....

Fischer in 2006 and Carlson in 2008.

in 2008, Habs gave their 1st pick fro Tanguay. Carlson would had been available if they would had kept their 1st pick.
I never said they were drafted in the same year.

Two separate tidbits claimed in this thread.

1) Timmins didn't want to draft Fischer.
2) Timmins wanted to draft Carlson.

There's no causal relationship between the two. They're separate items.

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05-08-2012, 09:00 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I never said they were drafted in the same year.

Two separate tidbits claimed in this thread.

1) Timmins didn't want to draft Fischer.
2) Timmins wanted to draft Carlson.

There's no causal relationship between the two. They're separate items.
Then, who wanted to draft Fischer ?

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05-08-2012, 09:10 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I never said they were drafted in the same year.

Two separate tidbits claimed in this thread.

1) Timmins didn't want to draft Fischer.
2) Timmins wanted to draft Carlson.

There's no causal relationship between the two. They're separate items.
I can tell you that Fischer was strongly recommanded by our scout to Timmins who obviously agreed with him 'cause if really didn't want to draft him? He would not have done it.

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05-09-2012, 05:11 AM
  #230
Andy
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Didn't Grant say that it was another scout that pushed for Fischer?

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:48 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Poeple need to stop crying about this. He's a solid young d-man, but that's the way things go.

If the Habs' options were trading McDonagh for Gomez or trading Subban and Plekanec for Lecavalier it's a no brainer for me.
Why do we have to choose between two idiotic moves? Why can't we choose none of the above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Gainey failed to acquire Mats Sundin and then used Robert Lang, who was a very successful acquisition until he got injured.

Following this:

Option 1:
Subban, Plekanec, Higgins, Gorges and 3 1st round draft picks for Vincent Lecavalier.

Option 2:
McDonagh, Higgins, Valentenko, for Gomez and Pyatt.

Option 3:
Resign Koivu.


Exactly!

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05-09-2012, 03:00 PM
  #232
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From Friedman:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

Quote:
21. A little insight into the McDonagh trade: Right around the 2009 draft, it's believed the Canadiens struck out for the second time on Vincent Lecavalier. (There was disagreement in Tampa about whether or not it really made sense to deal him.) Glen Sather saw an opening and let Montreal know Scott Gomez was available. He pointed out, correctly, that there wasn't much out there and the Canadiens could not go without trying to fill the No. 1 centre position. They were in a weak spot and Sather exploited it.

22. When Sather realized he had a shot at making the deal, he went to Director of player personnel Gordie Clark and asked, "Who should we get?" Both Clark and assistant GM Jeff Gorton had McDonagh No. 1. The Rangers really liked him going back to the NHL combine of his draft year and always kept an eye on him. (He was taken before New York selected the late Alexei Cherepanov.) Who was No. 2 if Montreal said no? "It never got that far," Clark said.

23. Clark explained how the Rangers (and presumably every other team) keep an updated list of about four/five players from all other organizations they'd target in a deal. "We're not talking about guys like [Steven] Stamkos," he said. "Everybody wants him. It's about prospects or lesser-known players. You watch everyone else's like you watch your own." That way, when Sather needs an answer, he gets one quickly.

24. Clark added the Rangers liked McDonagh for the same reason they noticed Chris Kreider and Dylan McIlrath at their comebines. "Physically, it was like men amongst boys," he said. "You have to be careful to make certain they have the hockey sense to play the way they need to, but they really stood out."

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05-09-2012, 03:25 PM
  #233
Marc the Habs Fan
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I wanted to punch something after reading that. Just unreal. An absolute epic failure on so many levels. Negotiating, leverage, etc. The story from Sunday just becomes more and more believable after reading that. It was clear one of the decision makers simply did not like McDonagh if it was that easy. Or someone was deeply interested in Gomez and had NO idea that the Rangers wanted to dump him just as bad as we needed a center.

You almost get the sense it went down like this:

Sather: Hey, you guys need a center...we have Gomez available! Still a 60 point center!!!
Either of the G's: OMGZ, WE LOVE GOMEZ! Wanted him in 2007 when he was a UFA! CUP WINNER!!!!
Sather: OK, give us McDonagh, 1st rounder, Higgins and Valentenko and you get him. (Because you never make your most competitive offer at first...which is another aspect that is just mind blowing, Sather probably asked for MORE than he got)
Either of the G's: Take out the 1st rounder and it's a deal!
Sather: (stunned)...DEAL! How about I add in Pyatt and Busto and you guys throw in Doug Janik for the hell of it?
Either of the G's: Sure, why the hell not?

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Old
05-09-2012, 03:40 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
That's how things work, well except in Montreal with Gainey and Gauthier the 2 retards that wanted to have control of everything and not ask anyone else about opinions

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05-09-2012, 04:52 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Time to find that guy's grave.
or dig it

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05-09-2012, 04:54 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I've also learned on this thread that Timmins wanted to draft Carlson and didn't want to draft Fischer.

I don't know if that's true.

If it's true, then I hope Bergevin keeps Timmins beyond the draft. Right now he's only committed to Timmins through to the draft.
I find it unlikely that Timmins was ever overruled at the draft table. At least under Gainey, but even under Gauthier I'd be surprised if he ever overruled Timmins.

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:59 PM
  #237
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Markov - McDonagh
Gorges - Subban
Beaulieu - Tinordi
Emelin

**** you gauthier!

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05-09-2012, 05:15 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I wanted to punch something after reading that. Just unreal. An absolute epic failure on so many levels. Negotiating, leverage, etc. The story from Sunday just becomes more and more believable after reading that. It was clear one of the decision makers simply did not like McDonagh if it was that easy. Or someone was deeply interested in Gomez and had NO idea that the Rangers wanted to dump him just as bad as we needed a center.

You almost get the sense it went down like this:

Sather: Hey, you guys need a center...we have Gomez available! Still a 60 point center!!!
Either of the G's: OMGZ, WE LOVE GOMEZ! Wanted him in 2007 when he was a UFA! CUP WINNER!!!!
Sather: OK, give us McDonagh, 1st rounder, Higgins and Valentenko and you get him. (Because you never make your most competitive offer at first...which is another aspect that is just mind blowing, Sather probably asked for MORE than he got)
Either of the G's: Take out the 1st rounder and it's a deal!
Sather: (stunned)...DEAL! How about I add in Pyatt and Busto and you guys throw in Doug Janik for the hell of it?
Either of the G's: Sure, why the hell not?
Well....reading this makes me believe that Sather is the idiot.....He could have asked for Subban and Pacioretty and McDonagh and we would have given him.... Everytime you deal when you are forced to, you rarely win. And often get fleeced. Well, fortunately, we can say that it's not our GM's fault, I mean he was a rookie anyway...oh wait....

And there is some people actually trying to defend this. Unreal. When is the last time that a deal when so one-way that not only it is about the value of each player but about the fact that one is a vet, a guy on his downside of his career while the other is just starting to look great and will be for years to come. I mean, last time.....was it Zhitnik for Coburn? And do people remember how stupid we thought Waddell was for doing it?

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05-09-2012, 05:42 PM
  #239
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Why is this surprising?

I was not joking when I said Gauthier was incompetent. The fanboys always cited the Halak deal. I don't know why...but even they're starting to turn.

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05-09-2012, 05:53 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
Friedman forgot to mention the carnival music going on in the background on Montreal's end of the phone line.

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05-09-2012, 06:07 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Friedman forgot to mention the carnival music going on in the background on Montreal's end of the phone line.


Dear lord that's brutal. **** you Bettman.

And wtf - if we're gonna **** on former management (count me in now*) at least **** on the trigger-puller and his assistant equally. Gainey is Teflon Bob around here, like Koivu's leadership inaptetude was totally brushed aside. It's weird and cultish.

* I distrust the media and mindless speculation. Friedman is on the ball though, so reading that heartbreaking account just pushed me over the edge.

What kind of ****ing "capologist" signs off on Scott Gomez as a viable alternative. Lecav has huge value in non-hockey terms at least, the Alaskan Mexican Midget is just....... ^***%|+|+|£|>|^{Ä|>|^#[}[%[&:&;@("

God damn it...

In Marc We Trust.

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05-09-2012, 06:17 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
and yet the GM responsible for getting completely screwed in that deal just signed a new contract with yet another NHL team to be a "consultant"...


and some people around here continue to believe that just b/c a guy gets hired by an NHL team, means he's any good at managing a team.

NHL, like most pro sport monopolies, is all about who you know, who your related to, or how big your playing rep was... not unlike most industries, though for one that is so public, it's amazing how many bad decision makers get recycled over and over again.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:20 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
and yet the GM responsible for getting completely screwed in that deal just signed a new contract with yet another NHL team to be a "consultant"...


and some people around here continue to believe that just b/c a guy gets hired by an NHL team, means he's any good at managing a team.

NHL, like most pro sport monopolies, is all about who you know, who your related to, or how big your playing rep was... not unlike most industries, though for one that is so public, it's amazing how many bad decision makers get recycled over and over again.
I keep saying this. A whole lot about WHO you know than WHAT you know. But hey, I hope you are ready. There will be a lot of Gainey's fans saying that he's surely not that bad to begin with if another team is ready to use him.

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05-09-2012, 06:27 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I keep saying this. A whole lot about WHO you know than WHAT you know. But hey, I hope you are ready. There will be a lot of Gainey's fans saying that he's surely not that bad to begin with if another team is ready to use him.
Gainey, the GM, has massive rep in Dallas. He made the NorthStars, and then the Stars and got them their only cup.

Joe Niew is definitely a Gainey acolyte, Gainey traded Iginla for him! Good news for their trading partners though, Niewsy is doing a TERRIBLE JOB thus far.

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05-09-2012, 06:27 PM
  #245
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From the article, we learn that if we hadn't given up McDonagh+ for Gomez, we would have likely given up Subban+ for Lecavalier ... but Tampa Bay didn't want to make the trade !!!

The situation could be so much worse... at least Gomez' contract expires in 2 years.

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Old
05-10-2012, 04:15 AM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
That's how things work, well except in Montreal with Gainey and Gauthier the 2 retards that wanted to have control of everything and not ask anyone else about opinions
I wonder what Andrť Savard must have thought of this.

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05-10-2012, 08:54 AM
  #247
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Gauthier is to blame for poor trades all through the Gainey administration and after. He is also responsible for free agent signings to differing degrees, and some of those were not bad.

Gainey is responsible for his choices in his right hand men. If he chose to trust certain people and they were not the right people, that is on Gainey. Gainey deserves respect because he was one of the best Habs ever, and brought back some pride and structure initially when he was hired as GM.

His family matters are something I hope none of us have to live through, and offer some explanation for the lapses in judgement, either of his own, or in giving too much credence to the opinions of his pro player staff, headed by Gauthier.

Good luck in Dallas. Do not recommend PG for any position.

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