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Old
05-09-2012, 04:00 PM
  #326
Coppy
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
I don't see any way Suter signs for under 7 mill. He is going to have offers from more than half the teams in the league. Hell Wisniewski got 5.5 last year and he isn't half the defenseman Suter is.

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05-09-2012, 04:18 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
I don't see any way Suter signs for under 7 mill. He is going to have offers from more than half the teams in the league. Hell Wisniewski got 5.5 last year and he isn't half the defenseman Suter is.
Also, that is Howson for ya. Suter is way better defensively, yes. Even Chara isn't fully 7M. Jay Bo is less than 7, but god Feaster is not good. Seabrook and Keith are less than 6M. Lidstrom is less than 7M. Campbell is over 7M, but that was not a good idea from Chicago, but he's done well for Florida. Doughty is 7M. Markov is less than 6M. Gonchar is less than 6M. Yandle is less than 6M. Boyle is less than 7M. Phaneuf is less than 7M. Green is just over 5M. Big Buf is just over 5M as well.

What I'm getting at is, considering some of these D-men, only ONE is over 7M and he doesn't deserve it. Just saying, no way does Suter get over 7M.

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05-09-2012, 04:25 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Also, that is Howson for ya. Suter is way better defensively, yes. Even Chara isn't fully 7M. Jay Bo is less than 7, but god Feaster is not good. Seabrook and Keith are less than 6M. Lidstrom is less than 7M. Campbell is over 7M, but that was not a good idea from Chicago, but he's done well for Florida. Doughty is 7M. Markov is less than 6M. Gonchar is less than 6M. Yandle is less than 6M. Boyle is less than 7M. Phaneuf is less than 7M. Green is just over 5M. Big Buf is just over 5M as well.

What I'm getting at is, considering some of these D-men, only ONE is over 7M and he doesn't deserve it. Just saying, no way does Suter get over 7M.
When did all those players sign these contracts, and were they extensions or FA signings. If Suter hits the open market, which he probably will, someone is going to overpay to ensure they get him.

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05-09-2012, 04:26 PM
  #329
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I would give Suter $7mil in a heartbeat. Not for a long term but 6 years/$42mil -- YUP!

Suter is very sound defensively. Really effective puck-mover too. He can play 30 minutes a night, kill penalties and play on the powerplay. Players like this don't come along very often and when they do they're rarely made available. If he does test the waters, I expect Philly to be a front runner even if Pronger has a chance of returning.

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:29 PM
  #330
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Wis' contract was this season. Lidstrom signed this season. Doughty's 7M was starting this season as well. Yandle's new contract started this season. Keith's started last season. Seabrook's started this season. Markov has had the same pay for the past several years, but his new contract started this year. I don't know the exact date of when they signed.

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:42 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Also, that is Howson for ya. Suter is way better defensively, yes. Even Chara isn't fully 7M. Jay Bo is less than 7, but god Feaster is not good. Seabrook and Keith are less than 6M. Lidstrom is less than 7M. Campbell is over 7M, but that was not a good idea from Chicago, but he's done well for Florida. Doughty is 7M. Markov is less than 6M. Gonchar is less than 6M. Yandle is less than 6M. Boyle is less than 7M. Phaneuf is less than 7M. Green is just over 5M. Big Buf is just over 5M as well.

What I'm getting at is, considering some of these D-men, only ONE is over 7M and he doesn't deserve it. Just saying, no way does Suter get over 7M.
Chara never hit the open market, signed at a hometown discount and is much older than Suter
JayBo never hit the open market, Calgary traded for his rights and signed him before free agency
Lindstrom is playing year-to-year, never hit the open market, signed at a hometown discount, and is much older than Suter
Yandle never hit the open market, signed at a hometown discount and was an RFA when he signed that contract (and is worse than Suter)
Boyle was older than Suter, and wasn't as hyped. And he signed that contract in 2008, the salary cap was almost 10 million lower than this year
Phaneuf never hit the open market and signed that deal while he was a RFA
Green never hit the open market and signed that deal while he was a RFA

The only cases there that are really comparable to Suter are Boyle and Campbell, maybe Jaybo and they all got overpaid. Campbell is actually the perfect example. He was the top defenseman in that class, and the only one with franchise potential. He had a lot of teams bidding for him, and he got massively overpaid.


Edit: Forgot Markov and he is older than Suter and signed that deal coming off two years where he played a combine 52 games. And he signed at a Hometown discount (if you can call it a discount)

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:44 PM
  #332
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Just saying, if we go over 7M, I want no part of him. That is an INSANE cap hit. I think we need to know where the cap is going to go though before even thinking that high.

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:58 PM
  #333
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Thats what I posted two months ago regarding Suter, I still think its possible to sign him to a "cheap" deal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Regarding the contract Suter will demand as an unrestricted free agent.

That is a list of #1 UFA defensemen who signed as UFA or were close to become UFAs:

DefenderAgeTeamYearCaphitLengthUpper Limit%
Gonchar, Sergei31Pittsburgh Penguins20055.000.000539.000.00012.8
Blake, Rob37Los Angeles Kings20066.000.000244.000.00013.6
Chara, Zdeno29Boston Bruins20067.500.000544.000.00017.0
Redden, Wade29Ottawa Senators20066.500.000244.000.00014.8
Timonen, Kimmo32Philadelphia Flyers20076.333.333650.300.00012.6
Rafalski, Brian34Detroit Red Wings20076.000.000550.300.00011.9
Boyle, Dan32Tampa Bay Lightning20086.666.667656.700.00011.8
Campbell, Brian29Chicago Blackhawks20087.142.875856.700.00012.6
Bouwmeester, Jay26Calgary Flames20096.680.000556.800.00011.8
Niedermayer, Scott36Anaheim Ducks20096.750.000156.800.00011.9

There hasn't been a number one defenseman available the last two offseasons.

Except of 2006, the caphit is always between 12% and 13% of the upper limit, none of those contracts has "cap years" in it.

If the cap stays at $64.3MM, 12% would be $7.7MM, 13% would be $8.3MM. If the cap rises up to $69MM, 12% is $8.3MM, 13% is $9.0MM.

Regarding the term I can see two options, a five (six) year contract through his prime with a chance for him to sign another big contract at age 32 (33) or a deal that covers the remainder of his career until age 41, and expecting him to play until age 37 (Kovalchuk rule).

(12% figures for both options)

Option one: Six years, $46.2MM, $7.7MM p/a with the low upper limit, six years, $49.8MM, $8.3MM p/a with the high upper limit.

Option two: 14 years, $81MM, $5.8MM p/a with the low upper limit, 14 years, $87MM, $6.3MM p/a with the high upper limit. The structure of that contract would be the maximum salary the first couple years (20% of the upper limit, $12.86MM and $13.8MM respectively), declining numbers the following eight years with a total of $51.28MM ($55.4MM) with year ten earning $7.43MM ($7.9MM) and the final four years at $1MM each.

Year$63.4MM$69MM
112.8613.80
212.8613.80
37.437.90
46.266.79
56.266.79
66.266.79
76.266.79
86.266.79
96.266.79
106.266.79
111.001.00
121.001.00
131.001.00
141.001.00
Total80.9787.03
%9.09.0
Caphit$5.78MM$6.22MM

(interchanged year three and ten due to the amount a contract can drop in a year)

I refuted myself, fine ...

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:59 PM
  #334
SolidSnakeUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Thats what I posted two months ago regarding Suter, I still think its possible to sign him to a "cheap" deal:
Thanks for posting this.

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:09 PM
  #335
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Jody Shelley has gotta be a cut next year right? Need that 1.1m elsewhere

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Old
05-09-2012, 11:12 PM
  #336
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This team needs a better mix of size. I think the D can alright with a healthy Mez. They just can't survive e deep playoff run with Kimo, Carle and a guy like Gus. I m not hedging my bet on them getting Suter.

I wouldn't mind a guy like Stuart. They need another guy that can win a one on one battle for when they play tight checking and dump and chase teams.

Grossman - Coburn
Kimo - Stuart
Bourdon - Mez

The forwards are speedy and skilled but they need some guys that can seperate a dman from the puck and at least punish them when they don't.

Obviously, Giroux and Briere aren't going anywhere but Read and Wellwood seem redundant. Jagr was a nice surprise but I wouldn't bring him back.

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere
JVR - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Coots - Voracek
Talbot/Sestito - Gaustad/Talbot - Wellwood/Sestito

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Old
05-10-2012, 12:45 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
As a head coach, I completely agree. But as a dmen coach, he is very good. Look at the progress of LA's young defensemen. Also, Coburn arguably had his best season when Murray was an assistant. He even made Randy Jones look competent.
I think if McCarthy can be swapped out for Murray to coach the D, it just might work. Sutter still gives credit to Murray for helping to build the defensive prowess the Kings (still) have.

Excerpt from article:

"To be sure, the Kings’ commitment to defense first has not changed from what former head coach Terry Murray instilled in them during his tenure. In fact, Sutter recently credited Murray for his role in the Kings’ recent playoff success."

“Terry Murray is just as important to winning this series [first round against Vancouver] as anybody,” Sutter said to assistant coach John Stevens, as reported by the Los Angeles Times. “…he was a good coach. [Getting fired is] always what happens. The coach takes responsibility when players don’t perform. He put a lot in place the last two or three years.”

"Most notably, Murray put into place the way the Kings play defense, turning a team that had little idea how to play in their own zone and gave up goals in large bunches just a few seasons ago, into one of the premier defensive teams in the National Hockey League."

http://frozenroyalty.net/2012/05/08/...angeles-kings/


It probably wouldn't happen, but Murray's defensive discipline with Lavy's "go-go" attack might just work?

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05-10-2012, 01:07 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
The only cases there that are really comparable to Suter are Boyle and Campbell, maybe Jaybo and they all got overpaid. Campbell is actually the perfect example. He was the top defenseman in that class, and the only one with franchise potential. He had a lot of teams bidding for him, and he got massively overpaid.
Well, Campbell also signed at the right time. 2007 - 2008 was a good time to sign a contract. Alot of guys got overpaid then...Crosby, Malkin, Timonen, Campbell, OV.

All good players on performance, but not likely in today's NHL they don't sign for the prices they did.

I really don't think Suter gets much more than 7.

And Wis got 5.5 from CBJ because nobody wants to be there. Kinda like NYI, to get a real FA they need to overpay.

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Old
05-10-2012, 09:47 AM
  #339
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Suter mentioned in an article that he wants a long term deal, so if he wants around 8 years on a contract I am sure the Flyers could get him for about 6.6 a season

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Old
05-10-2012, 09:54 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Suter mentioned in an article that he wants a long term deal, so if he wants around 8 years on a contract I am sure the Flyers could get him for about 6.6 a season
I would be very happy with that.

But I think he would want more years, like 10-11 for 6-6.5ish... which would not be bad at all, he would want a NTC as well.

And we all know if that is true, the Flyers are one of the 5ish teams in the NHL who would heavily chase for him.

IMO he is looking more unlikely to sign in Nashville, saying about raising family, wanting one contract until the end of career.

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05-10-2012, 10:30 AM
  #341
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If Suter wants 7 mil then give it to him! he is one of the Top Dmen in the league, and fits a major hole for us.

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05-10-2012, 11:17 AM
  #342
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Suter mentioned in an article that he wants a long term deal, so if he wants around 8 years on a contract I am sure the Flyers could get him for about 6.6 a season
I guess it depends who wants him and how badly. At $6.6M x 8 years, he would probably have at least a dozen serious 'suters'.... there are no slam dunks on this, unless he is harbouring a long-lost desire to be a Flyer.

FWIW, during one of the panel discussions, someone was talking about how he and Parise are best buds and thinking about going together as a package, potentially to Minnesota...

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05-10-2012, 11:43 AM
  #343
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I guess it depends who wants him and how badly. At $6.6M x 8 years, he would probably have at least a dozen serious 'suters'.... there are no slam dunks on this, unless he is harbouring a long-lost desire to be a Flyer.

FWIW, during one of the panel discussions, someone was talking about how he and Parise are best buds and thinking about going together as a package, potentially to Minnesota...
Or if somehow, someway, we could banish danny b somewhere and remove his contract, that package could be coming to philly

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05-10-2012, 01:15 PM
  #344
TheLegendkiller
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Or if somehow, someway, we could banish danny b somewhere and remove his contract, that package could be coming to philly
Then whose gonna scre playoff goals? You don't trade away playoff performers unless they stop performing in the playoffs.

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Old
05-10-2012, 01:40 PM
  #345
TheCerebral1
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
This team needs a better mix of size. I think the D can alright with a healthy Mez. They just can't survive e deep playoff run with Kimo, Carle and a guy like Gus. I m not hedging my bet on them getting Suter.

I wouldn't mind a guy like Stuart. They need another guy that can win a one on one battle for when they play tight checking and dump and chase teams.

Grossman - Coburn
Kimo - Stuart
Bourdon - Mez

The forwards are speedy and skilled but they need some guys that can seperate a dman from the puck and at least punish them when they don't.

Obviously, Giroux and Briere aren't going anywhere but Read and Wellwood seem redundant. Jagr was a nice surprise but I wouldn't bring him back.

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere
JVR - Schenn - Simmonds
Read - Coots - Voracek
Talbot/Sestito - Gaustad/Talbot - Wellwood/Sestito
Stuart really is at a stage at his career where he's hardly a top 4 defensemen. I've never understood why he was viewed that highly. He also plans to head back west.

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Old
05-10-2012, 02:05 PM
  #346
phillyflyerfan1992
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Sounds like Homer wants to sign Carle and he wants to stay, and we could get him at under market value:

Quote:
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Matt Carle ($3.750m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,709,444; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $290,556
not likely -- that $7mil that probably won't go to Suter can easily fill other holes. Maybe a right-handed free agent with a cannon and some defensive awareness (Jason Garrison, etc.) and possibly a 4th line face-off specialist center? (Carle/Voracek could get more money, too. Could easily resign Jagr)

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Old
05-10-2012, 02:06 PM
  #347
4thline4life
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Then whose gonna scre playoff goals? You don't trade away playoff performers unless they stop performing in the playoffs.
My post was sarcastic as danny can't be moved but id take parise over him in a heartbeat.

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Old
05-10-2012, 02:24 PM
  #348
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Then whose gonna scre playoff goals? You don't trade away playoff performers unless they stop performing in the playoffs.
when the guy cares about turning around the fact that when he's on the ice more goals go in our net than he is scoring...I'll consider his goals valuable.

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Old
05-10-2012, 02:30 PM
  #349
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What makes all of us think Suter will want to come here when there are a bunch of other teams that would want him. Dont they need to know Prongers status by July 1st to see if they could sign him?

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05-10-2012, 02:45 PM
  #350
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What's the chance we go back to a cap with a bonus cushion?

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