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Which system do you prefer?

View Poll Results: Which system do you prefer?
Lavy's (Capitals pond hockey) 46 54.76%
Defense First (something that resembles forwards playing some sort of defensive system) 38 45.24%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-09-2012, 04:54 PM
  #26
Andre Poodle Lussier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Lavi's system is not really pond hockey. When its working the team can be quite tight defensively. But when you are constantly turning it over and not getting to pucks on the forecheck it's going to come back the other way on you.

For as much as I thought lavi needed to adjust his game plan and failed, what I really saw a lot of in this series was players making an awful lot of poor individual choices. When you play an up tempo drive up the ice style like this team does, there is little room for delayed and poor decisions. The Flyers from top to bottom were slow to make outlet passes and quick to force plays instead of making safe plays like you need to against a bottling team like jersey
Flyers were 15th in turning the puck over this year...but 25th in creating turnovers...the failure with the system is the lack of pressure on the defensive side of the puck.

They were bit badly in the playoffs...only forcing 53 turnovers while coughing it up 100 times. The -4.3 per game differential was equal to Pittsburgh and LA for the worst in the postseason.

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Old
05-09-2012, 05:53 PM
  #27
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The offensive minded system we currently play at least makes for some exciting hockey.

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05-09-2012, 05:58 PM
  #28
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I hate sloppy play and that's what we saw against the Pens from both teams. Yeah, some people thought it was exciting to watch but it's not the kind of hockey you expect in the NHL, AHL or even the CHL. Maybe from a bunch of 16 year olds but that's it. Sloppy play in any sport creates excitement at time but it's not worth watching. I like defense first hockey that's aggressive, not passive. LA is playing that way right now and it's fun to watch. That's what I'd love to see in Philly but Lavi needs to change and we need some changes in personnel as well.

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05-09-2012, 06:18 PM
  #29
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Defensive hockey is boring as **** during the regular season.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:25 PM
  #30
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or is it maybe that Lavi's system is a one-trick pony that other clubs have dissected and figured out how to beat.

???


i dont really have any motivation one way or the other on keeping or dismissing Lavi.. whateva hapens this off season as far as he goes ill be fine with..

i am worried thou if it means that our run n gun system can be shut down so effectively and as a club we are powerless to counter it.

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05-09-2012, 06:29 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I hate sloppy play and that's what we saw against the Pens from both teams. Yeah, some people thought it was exciting to watch but it's not the kind of hockey you expect in the NHL, AHL or even the CHL. Maybe from a bunch of 16 year olds but that's it. Sloppy play in any sport creates excitement at time but it's not worth watching. I like defense first hockey that's aggressive, not passive. LA is playing that way right now and it's fun to watch. That's what I'd love to see in Philly but Lavi needs to change and we need some changes in personnel as well.
The Flyers looked sloppy and out of sync in their own zone A LOT during the regular season. They could barely execute simple breakout passes, instead typically panicking and just whipping the puck around the boards. I also felt their spacing in the offensive zone was awful a lot of the time. We saw both of those ugly habits rear their heads against the Devils.

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05-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I hate sloppy play and that's what we saw against the Pens from both teams. Yeah, some people thought it was exciting to watch but it's not the kind of hockey you expect in the NHL, AHL or even the CHL. Maybe from a bunch of 16 year olds but that's it. Sloppy play in any sport creates excitement at time but it's not worth watching. I like defense first hockey that's aggressive, not passive. LA is playing that way right now and it's fun to watch. That's what I'd love to see in Philly but Lavi needs to change and we need some changes in personnel as well.
That first round against Pittsburgh didn't even resemble playoff hockey.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by teegale View Post
We need to focus on blocking more shots. If you watch a team like the Rangers you'll see they're constantly getting sticks or bodies on the puck. Barely anything makes it through to Lundqvist and when it does, he makes the save.

Our strategy seems to be let Bryz have a clear few of the shot instead of making every effort to block it. Which didn't work out too well.
I thought we did a great job blocking shots.

Look at all the injuries we had because of it.

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:40 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
There are 30 teams in the league. One system wins every year, and they're always somewhat different.
And the main theme is defense first, not attack, attack some more, and attack till you can't attack anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
It doesn't matter what kind of system you play, if you get good matchups, get some lucky breaks, and are healthy you should go far in the playoffs.
Matchups, lucky breaks and health???? So the Kings, Coyotes, Capitals, Devils, and Rangers are only still playing because of matchups, luck and health and not a commitment to defense first? LOL

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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Also, the Flyers do not play Capitals pond hockey by any stretch of the imagination. Lavy's system has won a cup, and has gotten to the Stanley Cup Finals a second time. There is nothing wrong with the system.
Well if Lavy's system is so good why aren't more teams copying it, and more importantly anyone else won a cup playing it? Teams win cups with a commitment to defense first, not racing up and down the ice trying to win games 6-4. The Carolina cup was an aberration.

Lavy got to the cup finals with Steven's team. They went 6-6 that playoff season when scoring less than 4 goals. The last two playoff seasons, with Lavy's system fully in place, no learning curve, and personnel changes to supposedly fit it, 0-13 in games when they score less than 4 goals.

This team is not built and does not play a style to win tight checking, low scoring playoff games.


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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The players were not capable of countering the Devils forecheck. They consistently made the wrong decisions, and were unable to play the puck. Some of that is on the coach, but a lot of it is on the players. The coach should have seen that his players didn't have the ability to handle the forecheck, and done something to help them. However, he cannot think for them, and he cannot play for them.

He can absolutely think for them, and come up with something to counter what NJ was doing. That's what a good coach does, game plan for his players and come up with solutions to what the other team is doing.

We saw no adjustment and nothing different.

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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
What happens on the ice is ultimately up to the players. All the coach can do is put them in a position to succeed and help where he can. I don't think he helped them enough, but I'm also not sure it would have mattered with the roster we had.
So all the off season moves were wrong? They brought in a bunch of people that can't fit into this system? Do we need a roster overhaul?

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:41 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teegale View Post
The offensive minded system we currently play at least makes for some exciting hockey.
No question it sells tickets and jerseys but I want a CUP and I want to win it the way 99.9% of the teams do, defense first.

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05-09-2012, 09:42 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
or is it maybe that Lavi's system is a one-trick pony that other clubs have dissected and figured out how to beat.

???


i dont really have any motivation one way or the other on keeping or dismissing Lavi.. whateva hapens this off season as far as he goes ill be fine with..

i am worried thou if it means that our run n gun system can be shut down so effectively and as a club we are powerless to counter it.
There's a reason teams like the Capitals never went anywhere playing that way.

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05-09-2012, 09:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
That first round against Pittsburgh didn't even resemble playoff hockey.
And that's the fools gold, thinking you can just race up and down the ice and win playoff games 6-3. Pittsburgh was dumb enough to play that way. How quickly they forgot how they won their cup a few years ago. A coaching change in February, and they came out with a commitment to defense in the playoffs that wasn't there in previous years.

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:40 PM
  #38
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Some points to consider...I want a system that can actually be successful against two teams that totally schooled you.....one in the regular season and another in the playoffs. Throw in Tampa which also seems to frustrate us and Lavi needs to make some big adjustments but the GM needs to get us some more production from the backend like Phoenix employs....


Quote:
* The Flyers struggled against defensively disciplined system teams most of the season. Peter Laviolette changed personnel around against New Jersey but tactical adjustments were either lacking or simply not executed very well. Either which way, the coach has to take a share of the blame. Pete DoBoer outcoached Laviolette in the series.

* New Jersey had absolutely no fear of the Flyers' defensemen burning them on pinches or point shots. They had the Flyers' well-scouted, and that enabled New Jersey to constantly have puck support lower in the zone. Only once, when Matt Carle scored in Game 3, did that strategy backfire on the Devils

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...cuses/45/44335


Quote:
Kimmo Timonen:

"Well, they played their system to the maximum I think. There really weren’t any breakdowns, you know. There weren’t any easy goals going in. We had to work on every puck and every battle. They really did a great job. They played like the Rangers, I think the same way. There is something to it, we didn't beat the Rangers this year at all, so we have to find a way to beat those guys the way they play and you know obviously the Pittsburgh series was up and down and that's good for us because we can score early and if there's any turnovers. There were a lot of mistakes in that series and there were a lot of goals too, but teams who were playing really tight defense like these guys and the Rangers, we had a tough time this year."

Scott Hartnell:

"They were stingy. They were tight. You had to fight for every inch of ice that you got. When you had some time and space in the offensive zone, it seemed like they closed pretty fast. You had to make plays fast and it seemed like they were a step forward the whole series.

"They played a lot like the Rangers. We got the puck in the corner on a soft chip and it seemed like they had four guys on you in the corner. It is probably one of the biggest reasons why we couldn't beat the Rangers this year. They just smothered you, three or four guys on you in the zone. It was tough to make plays when your back is against the wall or out in the ice. It is definitely frustrating, but we did have chances. We had a post there and Danny [Briere] on a cough up by [Martin] Brodeur and if that goes in that could have been a whole different story."

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Tim-P...nation/2/44345

Quote:
Someone asked him whether the system had to be changed. He said, "That's coach's decision, not mine," but at least this seems clear. If not the system, the personnel. It seems like a reach to think a defensive unit of unlike parts and no real physical presence could survive the kind of high-risk, high-reward game that makes the Flyers equal parts exciting and frustrating.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1uQlWFcBC

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:53 PM
  #39
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We need a team that can adjust to whatever style of game we need to win

unfortunately, with the way bryz played ( yeah he made some nice saves this last series but really, come on........ he was slow as molasses out there and didn't seem to care that they were playing and he did let in a few 'softies' through his swiss cheese body.
if this team hopes to get back to the SCF and win the holy grail, they had better work on finding some big ass mobile defensemen willing to put their bodies on the line and block as many shots as necessary so bryz doesn't have to work out there.

we have some great talent out there that is tradeable
if this GM has the balls to get rid of richards/carter......... you know he's probably willing to give away some of our talent in order to pick up some versatile defensemen
i can see simmonds / jvr / vorachek being hung like a carrot
(i just hope they don't give up JVR to toronto for a luke schenn)

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05-09-2012, 11:12 PM
  #40
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Picked defense. Sick of being 0-13 when not scoring 4 or more goals in playoff games. Disgusting.

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05-10-2012, 12:07 AM
  #41
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I'm not picking either. This is just one of those ego stroking threads where the OP wants to look like a tactical genius. Don't you get that it doesn't make a ****ing difference which style YOU prefer? You're not in the organization so your opinion doesn't have any weight. Then in 7 months when the next season starts you'll make a thread *****ing about "How come they didn't change the system? Don't they wanna win? I want it this way!" Blah blah blah.

Then when we change to ****ing defense first all of a sudden it becomes "Well now all the high powered offenses are winning in the playoffs." Just shut the **** up and do whats best for the team you have. And then prepare that team to be able to play against team's with multiple systems.

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05-10-2012, 12:27 AM
  #42
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anyone that can win.

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Old
05-10-2012, 12:28 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
I'm not picking either. This is just one of those ego stroking threads where the OP wants to look like a tactical genius. Don't you get that it doesn't make a ****ing difference which style YOU prefer?
I didn't know fans of a team weren't allowed to have a preference for a particular style of play, a certain type of player, acquisitions they would like to see, etc. I'll check with you next time before posting a new thread to make sure it conforms to your liking. If I wanted to look like a tactical genius, I would have joined the US Army and tried to become a General.


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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
You're not in the organization so your opinion doesn't have any weight.
So posters can't voice their opinion on styles of play, contracts, player acquisitions, salary caps, and all other team issues because we're all not "in the organization?" You're kidding right?

Why does HF Boards even exist?


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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Then in 7 months when the next season starts you'll make a thread *****ing about "How come they didn't change the system? Don't they wanna win? I want it this way!" Blah blah blah.

Then when we change to ****ing defense first all of a sudden it becomes "Well now all the high powered offenses are winning in the playoffs." Just shut the **** up and do whats best for the team you have. And then prepare that team to be able to play against team's with multiple systems.

I'm glad your crystal ball works so well. You should take that thing to Vegas, look into it, and win yourself some money. I guess you're trying to look like the Sultan of predictions.

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Old
05-10-2012, 04:14 PM
  #44
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The Devils won but they play a boring neutral trap style of hockey (as well does Tampa). From what I gather, Bettman and the NHL want a wide open, fast skating and more scoring atmosphere. Devils and Lightning are going in the wrong direction if you ask me. Sorry, I get tired of watching 1-0 and 2-1 hockey games, might as well watch soccer(sorry soccer fans don't mean to rain on your parade).

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05-10-2012, 04:17 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFanz;49548739[B
]The Devils won but they play a boring neutral trap style of hockey (as well does Tampa).[/B] From what I gather, Bettman and the NHL want a wide open, fast skating and more scoring atmosphere. Devils and Lightning are going in the wrong direction if you ask me. Sorry, I get tired of watching 1-0 and 2-1 hockey games, might as well watch soccer(sorry soccer fans don't mean to rain on your parade).
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. I can remember many times where the Devils had two or even three forecheckers. These aren't the Devils of old.

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05-10-2012, 04:20 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
The Devils won but they play a boring neutral trap style of hockey (as well does Tampa). From what I gather, Bettman and the NHL want a wide open, fast skating and more scoring atmosphere. Devils and Lightning are going in the wrong direction if you ask me. Sorry, I get tired of watching 1-0 and 2-1 hockey games, might as well watch soccer(sorry soccer fans don't mean to rain on your parade).
Did you watch the series? The Devils certainly did not play a trap style defense very much. They abused us on the forecheck. Badly. Then when we skated up, they stacked the blue line and let their puck-handling goaltender eat us alive with the chip and chase game we relied on.

This Devils team plays considerably different than previous iterations.

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05-10-2012, 04:23 PM
  #47
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I really don't understand why people keep saying this. I can remember many times where the Devils had two or even three forecheckers. These aren't the Devils of old.
Last game played with 5 mins to go the Devils had 4 forecheckers up and one guy back, what are you talking about? These Devils are worse than the Devils of the past. They constantly had at least 3 forecheckers going at all times.

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05-10-2012, 05:37 PM
  #48
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This is the problem wth our frowards playing defense...most of them are young and not very good at it yet. Team defense needs to improve, yes, and you can add some new players to help. But the other part is letting rookies learn how to play defense. Not all players have defensive instincts when they first start out so they need to develop them as time goes on. They will get better at defense. But don't just change systems to fit with whats happening in this playoff year. It changes from year to year.

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05-10-2012, 05:48 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Last game played with 5 mins to go the Devils had 4 forecheckers up and one guy back, what are you talking about? These Devils are worse than the Devils of the past. They constantly had at least 3 forecheckers going at all times.
Umm what?

Forechecking involves being agressive in the offensive zone...trapping is what TB does. They didn't trap. They just severely out worked us and actually know how to rotate defensive coverage...unlike Flyers forwards...

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05-10-2012, 11:15 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Not all players have defensive instincts when they first start out so they need to develop them as time goes on. They will get better at defense.
Not sure I see how Schenn, Couturier, Read, Simmonds, & C. would have learned much about defense this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
But don't just change systems to fit with whats happening in this playoff year. It changes from year to year.
In my view, it didn't change this year. As soon as Pronger crashed they should have changed.

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