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The All-Purpose Bryz Thread #6

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:10 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Like how some people will blame others (Lavi, Timonen, Briere, anybody) to deflect all blame away from Bryzgalov?
I'm not happy with them either. In fact a much bigger issue during the Devils series was how our forwards get absolutely lost in their own zone. Giroux can kill penalties but he's one of the laziest back checkers on the team. I read a stat somewhere that Briere's even strength goals against per 60 minutes was above 6. The elephant in the room all playoffs was that Timonen looked pretty mediocre and the fact that he might have been injured isn't an excuse because at his age with the amount of miles on his body he's never going to be completely healthy come playoff time. Lavi was 100% outcoached in the series.


But those things don't bother me as much as Bryz because of the nature of the position. Every team has a forward or two who doesn't exactly bust his ass getting back into the zone, and I can live with that from Briere and Giroux because of what they bring to the table offensively (Simmonds and JVR are another story). Timonen might be a shell of his former self but if he's used in smaller minutes he can still be very effective. Same with Jagr.

But you can't pick and choose the situations in which your goalie is important because he is your last line of defense. Almost everyone that has quoted my posts is completely missing the point.

Is the system part of the problem? Yes, but he has let in inexcusable goals that would look terrible whether he played for the Flyers or the Blues. I don't care if we put 5 forwards on the ice at all time there were a lot of back breaking soft goals he let in over the course of the season that HAD to be stopped.

Is management partly to blame? Yes, Snider needs to be more careful what he wishes for. Flyers went out and got their guy even though their guy wasn't very good.

I'm not here to argue whether he was ever or elite, who's to blame for the signing, or who's to blame for his performance. The fact is his performance has been AWFUL and we can't afford to invest a significant portion of our cap space into a goalie who can't crack the top 20 in the league.

He is a PROBLEM that needs to be addressed somehow. He is not the only problem, but he is by far the biggest. We can win with these forwards. With a few tweaks I think we can with with this defense too. I have no faith that we can win with this goalie though. You can change the system, teach the forwards to back check, rebuild the defense, whatever. But until Bryz shows that he's capable of carrying us through a playoff series without giving up back breaking softies (which almost EVERY stanley cup winning goalie has been called on to do at least once) none of that will matter. You can't completely change your team and try to win IN SPITE of you're 50 million dollar goalie, it's just not a feasible strategy.

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05-09-2012, 06:13 PM
  #352
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That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I used to argue something very similar when we were still debating whether he can be worth his contract.

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Old
05-09-2012, 06:13 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by MacJagr View Post
I agree, but really what did we expect from Bryz? Like I said before he is a mediocre goalie at best with a moment here and there. He was never an exceptional goalie to begin with. Him getting paid this much shouldn't have changed the fact that he isn't a stellar performer. And him getting paid this much won't change that fact.
I don't understand what you're arguing. The amount he gets paid is very relevant because of this thing called the salary cap. The fact that he gets paid an outrageous amount AND is mediocre is a disaster. I don't blame him for taking the money but the fact that he hurts both the team's performance on the ice and it's ability to sign better players off of it makes it a huge problem.

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05-09-2012, 06:22 PM
  #354
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I'm not happy with them either. In fact a much bigger issue during the Devils series was how our forwards get absolutely lost in their own zone. Giroux can kill penalties but he's one of the laziest back checkers on the team. I read a stat somewhere that Briere's even strength goals against per 60 minutes was above 6. The elephant in the room all playoffs was that Timonen looked pretty mediocre and the fact that he might have been injured isn't an excuse because at his age with the amount of miles on his body he's never going to be completely healthy come playoff time. Lavi was 100% outcoached in the series.


But those things don't bother me as much as Bryz because of the nature of the position. Every team has a forward or two who doesn't exactly bust his ass getting back into the zone, and I can live with that from Briere and Giroux because of what they bring to the table offensively (Simmonds and JVR are another story). Timonen might be a shell of his former self but if he's used in smaller minutes he can still be very effective. Same with Jagr.

But you can't pick and choose the situations in which your goalie is important because he is your last line of defense. Almost everyone that has quoted my posts is completely missing the point.

Is the system part of the problem? Yes, but he has let in inexcusable goals that would look terrible whether he played for the Flyers or the Blues. I don't care if we put 5 forwards on the ice at all time there were a lot of back breaking soft goals he let in over the course of the season that HAD to be stopped.

Is management partly to blame? Yes, Snider needs to be more careful what he wishes for. Flyers went out and got their guy even though their guy wasn't very good.

I'm not here to argue whether he was ever or elite, who's to blame for the signing, or who's to blame for his performance. The fact is his performance has been AWFUL and we can't afford to invest a significant portion of our cap space into a goalie who can't crack the top 20 in the league.

He is a PROBLEM that needs to be addressed somehow. He is not the only problem, but he is by far the biggest. We can win with these forwards. With a few tweaks I think we can with with this defense too. I have no faith that we can win with this goalie though. You can change the system, teach the forwards to back check, rebuild the defense, whatever. But until Bryz shows that he's capable of carrying us through a playoff series without giving up back breaking softies (which almost EVERY stanley cup winning goalie has been called on to do at least once) none of that will matter. You can't completely change your team and try to win IN SPITE of you're 50 million dollar goalie, it's just not a feasible strategy.
Well said, and 100% on the money. I look forward to seeing if BP1974 and/or JXC have a rebuttal for this.

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05-09-2012, 07:02 PM
  #355
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I was baffled but not any longer; it is pretty that some people will argue anything to keep the focus from their heroes. For those who worship Lavi and Kimmo and Roo, blaming the world on Bryzgalov is quite convenient.

Not saying it makes them bad people, as I think everyone does that to some degree at some time.
Lets think...maybe because those players carried the workload for 99% of the season?

Even when Bryz was "on" he was still letting in at least 3 goals per game.

So yeah, naturally that is killer when your offense is worn out/struggling and are playing average.

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05-09-2012, 07:10 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I don't understand what you're arguing. The amount he gets paid is very relevant because of this thing called the salary cap. The fact that he gets paid an outrageous amount AND is mediocre is a disaster. I don't blame him for taking the money but the fact that he hurts both the team's performance on the ice and it's ability to sign better players off of it makes it a huge problem.
I kind of lost sight of what I was trying to argue as well. I think what I was trying to say is we shouldn't expect him to play differently because he's getting paid an outrageous amount. - He will always be a mediocre goaltender and no amount of money will change that. (Unless we see a 180 complete change next season - Which I ****ing hope so)

Drinking a bit early tonight


Last edited by TyrannoMeszarosRex: 05-09-2012 at 07:45 PM.
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Old
05-09-2012, 07:16 PM
  #357
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Hopefully it was just a bad year and he is able to improve next season.

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05-09-2012, 07:31 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan139 View Post
Hopefully it was just a bad year and he is able to improve next season.
we've seen that he can be a great goalie....his march stats back it up, let's just hope he finds more consistency next year.

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05-09-2012, 07:36 PM
  #359
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we've seen that he can be a great goalie....his march stats back it up, let's just hope he finds more consistency next year.
Worth ethics, change of scenery, new type of play style, all came into effect. Hopefully a healthy defense and an understanding of the system really makes him a much more effective goalie.

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05-09-2012, 08:45 PM
  #360
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Can't help but laugh at the amount of facepalms in this photo.


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05-09-2012, 09:25 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Worth ethics, change of scenery, new type of play style, all came into effect. Hopefully a healthy defense and an understanding of the system really makes him a much more effective goalie.
there you go. this is an understanding factoring in everything of what went on. but the key is there is faith in him also. if you don't believe in the guy, you don't believe in the guy. and that picture is funny as hell.

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05-09-2012, 09:39 PM
  #362
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Worth ethics, change of scenery, new type of play style, all came into effect. Hopefully a healthy defense and an understanding of the system really makes him a much more effective goalie.
I really hope you are right. I am praying that a year from now someone bumps this thread because Bryz settled down in year 2 and bounces back stronger than ever and I can laugh at myself for being an idiot but I really have very little faith.

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05-09-2012, 09:43 PM
  #363
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Can't help but laugh at the amount of facepalms in this photo.


LOL, that pic basicly encapsulates Bryz's first season here in a single snapshot.

hahaahah

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Old
05-09-2012, 10:23 PM
  #364
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I agree with Bill mostly...but Timonen being spent and hurt had to play a part in him trying to get assistance from Bryz although Bryz might have called for it to show he can be Brodeuresque....too bad he looked more like Mike Richter who used to be particularly bad with the puck despite his famed career...

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* Ilya Bryzgalov actually played pretty well throughout the series when it came to stopping non-deflected shots and rebounds from in close. But his puck handling was a ticking time bomb. The bomb went off in the first period last night on New Jersey's backbreaking second goal. I still have no idea why Bryzgalov didn't cover the puck rather than trying to play through David Clarkson. For those who blame Kimmo Timonen for the mishap, it's not all that uncommon for a defenseman to play the puck back to his goalie. That one was on Bryzgalov alone for taking too long and then making the ill-advised flip of the puck right into Clarkson and the net.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...cuses/45/44335

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05-09-2012, 10:43 PM
  #365
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No matter how good we thought Bryz was... still why the hell would you bring ANYBODY in for 9 years? That is just insanity. And now... good or bad, we are stuck with him.

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05-09-2012, 10:50 PM
  #366
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I'm not happy with them either. In fact a much bigger issue during the Devils series was how our forwards get absolutely lost in their own zone. Giroux can kill penalties but he's one of the laziest back checkers on the team. I read a stat somewhere that Briere's even strength goals against per 60 minutes was above 6. The elephant in the room all playoffs was that Timonen looked pretty mediocre and the fact that he might have been injured isn't an excuse because at his age with the amount of miles on his body he's never going to be completely healthy come playoff time. Lavi was 100% outcoached in the series.


But those things don't bother me as much as Bryz because of the nature of the position. Every team has a forward or two who doesn't exactly bust his ass getting back into the zone, and I can live with that from Briere and Giroux because of what they bring to the table offensively (Simmonds and JVR are another story). Timonen might be a shell of his former self but if he's used in smaller minutes he can still be very effective. Same with Jagr.

But you can't pick and choose the situations in which your goalie is important because he is your last line of defense. Almost everyone that has quoted my posts is completely missing the point.

Is the system part of the problem? Yes, but he has let in inexcusable goals that would look terrible whether he played for the Flyers or the Blues. I don't care if we put 5 forwards on the ice at all time there were a lot of back breaking soft goals he let in over the course of the season that HAD to be stopped.

Is management partly to blame? Yes, Snider needs to be more careful what he wishes for. Flyers went out and got their guy even though their guy wasn't very good.

I'm not here to argue whether he was ever or elite, who's to blame for the signing, or who's to blame for his performance. The fact is his performance has been AWFUL and we can't afford to invest a significant portion of our cap space into a goalie who can't crack the top 20 in the league.

He is a PROBLEM that needs to be addressed somehow. He is not the only problem, but he is by far the biggest. We can win with these forwards. With a few tweaks I think we can with with this defense too. I have no faith that we can win with this goalie though. You can change the system, teach the forwards to back check, rebuild the defense, whatever. But until Bryz shows that he's capable of carrying us through a playoff series without giving up back breaking softies (which almost EVERY stanley cup winning goalie has been called on to do at least once) none of that will matter. You can't completely change your team and try to win IN SPITE of you're 50 million dollar goalie, it's just not a feasible strategy.
Can't disagree more with your assessment. He played FINE by and large after the winter classic.

He played fine the last 2 vs Pit and all 5 against NJD. He gave up 2 soft goals vs NJD. We've seen him play much better when the team comes out to defend...he set the franchise shutout streak during this time. He's far from awful...

This team is absolutely not built to win games 1-0. The forwards are not good enough defenders.

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05-09-2012, 10:50 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
No matter how good we thought Bryz was... still why the hell would you bring ANYBODY in for 9 years? That is just insanity. And now... good or bad, we are stuck with him.
agree with you on this.

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05-09-2012, 10:59 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Lets think...maybe because those players carried the workload for 99% of the season?

Even when Bryz was "on" he was still letting in at least 3 goals per game.

So yeah, naturally that is killer when your offense is worn out/struggling and are playing average.
He let in 3 or more goals in 24 out of 57 starts this season. And when he was "on" (March) he had 3 games out of 15 where he let in 3 or more goals.

Tim Thomas let in 3 more goals 24 out of 55 starts this season.

Roberto Luongo let in 3 or more goals 25 out of 54 starts this season.

Hank Lundqvist let in 3 or more goals 21 out of 62 starts.

Pekka Rinne let in 3 or more goals 29 out of 72 starts.

Jonathan Quick let in 3 or more goals 23 out of 69 starts.

Bryz seems on par. He's not better than Quick, Rinne, or Hank for sure. His catastrophic games are skewing it for you.

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05-09-2012, 11:16 PM
  #369
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His catastrophic games are skewing it for you.
maybe thats the real point.../UGH

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05-09-2012, 11:31 PM
  #370
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maybe thats the real point.../UGH
It should be. Not that the team was carrying him all season, because that's ********. But he certainly strung together some terrible games. 17 of his 3 or more goal games were actually 4 or more goals. And he had 4 of those in the playoffs out of 11 starts. They seemed to all hit in consecutive stretches too.

Statistically, he faced the least shots of his career as a starter, and had the 2nd lowest sv% of his career. I'm not sure what that could be attributed to, but he needs to come in next year and play his tail off.

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05-10-2012, 12:02 AM
  #371
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It should be. Not that the team was carrying him all season, because that's ********. But he certainly strung together some terrible games. 17 of his 3 or more goal games were actually 4 or more goals. And he had 4 of those in the playoffs out of 11 starts. They seemed to all hit in consecutive stretches too.

Statistically, he faced the least shots of his career as a starter, and had the 2nd lowest sv% of his career. I'm not sure what that could be attributed to, but he needs to come in next year and play his tail off.
Next year if he doesn't show more commitment and doesn't play much more consistently it's going to get ugly......I also think Lavi gets canned around Dec and Bryz could contribute....might or might not deserve it. However, with the right moves back on D and a few others ....the GM might mitigate that potential worst case scenario...

We are fine for the future IMO but have some humps to get over still.....Bryz is the biggest

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05-10-2012, 12:08 AM
  #372
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Statistically, he faced the least shots of his career as a starter, and had the 2nd lowest sv% of his career. I'm not sure what that could be attributed to, but he needs to come in next year and play his tail off.
Well, I don't think those things are correlated in the slightest, and if they are, I'd even venture to say they're slightly negatively correlated.

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05-10-2012, 01:36 AM
  #373
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mediocre bryz

i know this is old news but i will never be able to figure out why the flyers ever went after bryzgalov in the first place-ok i know they were pissed that they had not received standout playoff goaltending since hextall-but bryzgalov? after he had just bombed in the playoffs to detroit? that should have COST him millions,not made him millions! and his attitude about that debacle was that he obviously did not give a s#%t!! leighton and boucher were both gone for giving up bad goals and they signed the goalie most renowned for giving up softies?i saw him play for phoenix and i saw him play in the olympics and what i saw is what we got,a goalie that could not be counted on -period. and as far as winning a stanley cup i really dont think he cares one way or the other, he is in the nhl for one reason -money.i hope and pray the flyers can figure out what to do about their goaltending-i dont know how jeff reese still has a job and bobrovsky is horribly inconsistent,if they are stuck w/bryzgalov at the very least they need to get rid of bobrovsky and get the best goalie they can if they want to be better next year.i cant stand another year of feeling sick to my stomach every time the other team steps over our blueline and gets ready to take a shot.

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05-10-2012, 01:46 AM
  #374
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wasnt their fault? you dont fault them but fault bryz? why doesnt anyone admit they hate the guy and stop agruing about him.

i dont hate Bryzgalov. i think I have said it a few times(maybe more) i want him do to well, but he has frustrated us with his erratic, inconsistant play. You take out the month of march and his save percentage is under .900.
There is only so much blame on whats in front of him when you cant even post a GAA over .900.
As far as the goalies last year go, look at the save percentages. Boucher/Bob are inferior goalies and even they managed to put up save perentages of around .910.
Now both goalies gave up quite a few "bad" goals, many similar to Bryz. 5 hole, beaten with a lazy glove ect ect. Yet I heard very little blaming the team in front of him with are you ready with the same system and coaching staff
I think we ALL want our goaltending to be consistant. and not consistant pedestrian.
For the final time I dont blame Bryzgalov for everything, but he needs to share a good portian of the blame for his own play.

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Looks like he's being sarcastic.
Glad someone noticed.


i cant believe i got pulled back into this discussion somehow


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05-10-2012, 08:29 AM
  #375
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Bryz was the ONLY reason we were in any game against New Jersey. The Pittsburgh series? We won it fairly easily, no issue there.

Bryz had a terrible start to his contract which should have been expected as it is pretty much the norm for UFA's signing major deals on new teams. However, he was the best goalie down the stretch getting into the playoffs and won NHL Player of the month along the way, no small feat.

Answer me this question honestly: Did the Flyers help Bryz at all during the playoffs?

Think seriously about that. How many quality chances did Philly give up per game. I'm not talking shots. I'm talking point blank shots from 5 feet away, 2 on 1's, 2 on 0's, breakaways, etc.

Now Answer me this question honestly: Did the Devils help Brodeur at all during the playoffs?

Think about that. How many quality chances did Philly get from the Devils? I can count them quickly, because virtually all of them ended up in the back of the net.

OK, so some are saying Bryz is a terrible goalie. He ended the season with a 2.5 GAA and .909 save percentage with 33 games and 6 shutouts in 59 starts. Not bad. His numbers post all-star read 1.84GAA .929 with 5 SO's. Outstanding.

My expectations for 2012-2013. Bryz in the all-star game assuming we sure up the backline, let some of our weaker defensive forwards leave.

I know this is Philly, but newsflash, for once in our history, this time is WAS NOT the goalies fault!

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