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Gomez to be bought out? - Louis Jean on FAN 590

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Old
05-09-2012, 09:52 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Nobody would consider calling up Gomez. He'd have to clear re-entry waivers where he would almost assuredly be claimed. If Gomez goes down there would be no discussion of him ever coming back. Just like Redden in New York.
Next season he might serve as an injury recall if he's outplaying the rest of the Bulldog centers.

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05-09-2012, 10:48 PM
  #452
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Nobody would consider calling up Gomez. He'd have to clear re-entry waivers where he would almost assuredly be claimed. If Gomez goes down there would be no discussion of him ever coming back. Just like Redden in New York.
Having someone claim him on re-entry waivers would be my choice. It's 50/50 on the salary and cap hit and he's not only out of the organization, he's off the books in two years.

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05-10-2012, 12:37 AM
  #453
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I've said it before. Don't be surprised if Gomez starts the season here, with us.
Especially if you have guys like Robinson/Lemaire coming in. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they gave him a try.


At this point, it's not whether or not Gomez sucked and needs to go. He isn't a cancer, people all seem to like him. So, what really needs to be asked is ''what would we do with his cap hit?'. If the answer is to go after multiple free agents, then nothing stops us from signing him even if he's here. We don't have to bury or buy him out before. Let management get players.
If they don't need the extra space, then what's the point of sending him down?
Make it clear that you see him as a possible 3rd/4th line winger, possibly even 13th forward, at this point. If he hustles his way out, great for us. If he doesn't, then he can remain scratched and we can send him down whenever we want.

I think it's time for him to move on, but if management wants to use this year as sort of a transitional one, without making any huge splashes, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him here. Matter of fact, I'm kind of expecting it.

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05-10-2012, 03:59 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I've said it before. Don't be surprised if Gomez starts the season here, with us.
Especially if you have guys like Robinson/Lemaire coming in. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they gave him a try.


At this point, it's not whether or not Gomez sucked and needs to go. He isn't a cancer, people all seem to like him. So, what really needs to be asked is ''what would we do with his cap hit?'. If the answer is to go after multiple free agents, then nothing stops us from signing him even if he's here. We don't have to bury or buy him out before. Let management get players.
If they don't need the extra space, then what's the point of sending him down?
Make it clear that you see him as a possible 3rd/4th line winger, possibly even 13th forward, at this point. If he hustles his way out, great for us. If he doesn't, then he can remain scratched and we can send him down whenever we want.

I think it's time for him to move on, but if management wants to use this year as sort of a transitional one, without making any huge splashes, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him here. Matter of fact, I'm kind of expecting it.
I doubt it. It's not brain surgery how the first subject Bergevin talked about it the press conference was Gomez. He knew that was a problem even before coming here. He's gonna fix it quickly.

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05-10-2012, 04:40 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Saving real dollars at the expense of a bit of potential asset acquisition power, instead of spending more real dollars finding a use for a depreciated and unproductive asset, shouldn't be that hard to understand from an owner's standpoint. From a GM's standpoint, the remaining cap room, even with a buyout, should leave the Habs on more than competitive enough footing, depending on the many different possible decisions which could be made between the draft and free agency.

I think you underestimate how quickly owners of businesses are willing to get rid of costly and unproductive assets that have a quantifiable and negative impact on flexibility, especially when we're talking millions of dollars. Burying him might be ideal in a lot of ways, but it might also turn out to be unfeasible or simply undesirable for either side.
Man, what kind of a player do you think the Habs are going to get for 3.8, and 2.8 in the next 2 seasons that makes it worth it to buy out Gomez?

Especially since then in years 3 and 4 they have a 1.666 cap hit as well, which significantly weakens their depth at forward or defence.

I don't underestimate anything...a scenario wherein the Habs can spend to the cap to create the best team possible compared to a scenario wherein the Habs can spend 3.5 under the cap, and 4.5 under the cap in the first 2 years than 1.666 under the cap in the 2 years after that is completely counter productive to icing a winning team.

Molson's number one goal should be to make money, the best way to do that is to ice a team that has the potential to go far in the playoffs. Frankly I think a team would take him on re-entry waivers, I think it's quite obvious that the pressure of the contract has been weighing on Gomez and if he could play in a new situation without the burden of being so outrageously paid it'd be good for him. I'd way rather the Habs had a 3.7 cap hit for 2 years than a 3.5, 4.5, 1.666, 1.666 scenario.

As I said earlier...what exactly are you going to get with the 2.8 saved in year 2? Does that on any level make it worth losing 1.666 for teh 2 years afterwards as well? Especially since next years UFA class has the potential to be really strong.

Buying him should not even be an option, it's counter productive on every level.

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05-10-2012, 06:03 AM
  #456
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I doubt it. It's not brain surgery how the first subject Bergevin talked about it the press conference was Gomez. He knew that was a problem even before coming here. He's gonna fix it quickly.
That is absolutely false!

It wasn't the first thing Bergevin talked about........he didn't even bring it up until he was directly asked about it.

This site is insane for people completely fabricating events to suit their opinions.

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05-10-2012, 06:59 AM
  #457
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I've said it before. Don't be surprised if Gomez starts the season here, with us.
Especially if you have guys like Robinson/Lemaire coming in. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they gave him a try.


At this point, it's not whether or not Gomez sucked and needs to go. He isn't a cancer, people all seem to like him. So, what really needs to be asked is ''what would we do with his cap hit?'. If the answer is to go after multiple free agents, then nothing stops us from signing him even if he's here. We don't have to bury or buy him out before. Let management get players.
If they don't need the extra space, then what's the point of sending him down?
Make it clear that you see him as a possible 3rd/4th line winger, possibly even 13th forward, at this point. If he hustles his way out, great for us. If he doesn't, then he can remain scratched and we can send him down whenever we want.

I think it's time for him to move on, but if management wants to use this year as sort of a transitional one, without making any huge splashes, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him here. Matter of fact, I'm kind of expecting it.
I have been saying the same thing to my buddies. I would not be surprised at all if he starts the season with the Habs. He is a good locker room guy and it is possible that the new coach thinks he can jump start him.

If it were a rock solid UFA class and we were going to get two or 3 top UFAs then I could see it. But other than Suter and Parise, which are long shots to be Habs, there are not many players to spend big bucks on. If we do need to cap space then they bury him in the AHL or similar.

So why do we need the cap space? I think we have plenty of room to sign Price and Subban to their market values and money left to bring in a good UFA to help with the 2nd or 3rd line and one on defense. Gomez is simply not going to hinder us cap wise, this season. (wow it feels weird to write that sentence)

I just think the new coach and management are going to at least give him a shot. Don't you think the new coach would be a rock star if he can bring Gomez back to life? Everyone would be calling him the best coach ever.....Challenge Accepted!

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05-10-2012, 07:05 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I've said it before. Don't be surprised if Gomez starts the season here, with us.
Especially if you have guys like Robinson/Lemaire coming in. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they gave him a try.


At this point, it's not whether or not Gomez sucked and needs to go. He isn't a cancer, people all seem to like him. So, what really needs to be asked is ''what would we do with his cap hit?'. If the answer is to go after multiple free agents, then nothing stops us from signing him even if he's here. We don't have to bury or buy him out before. Let management get players.
If they don't need the extra space, then what's the point of sending him down?
Make it clear that you see him as a possible 3rd/4th line winger, possibly even 13th forward, at this point. If he hustles his way out, great for us. If he doesn't, then he can remain scratched and we can send him down whenever we want.

I think it's time for him to move on, but if management wants to use this year as sort of a transitional one, without making any huge splashes, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him here. Matter of fact, I'm kind of expecting it.
I can't see it.

You have an owner looking for a playoff team and thinks the team is better than it showed in 11-12, which when you look at the 3-4 years before he is right.

You have a new GM coming in and will want to put his stamp on the team.

If you do nothing with Gomez the only moves you can make are very minor, like re-signing Price Subban Moen Darche etc and that puts you very close to the cap.

Plus Gomez has no real role on this team, he looks lost on the wing and for the long term success of the team you don't displace Eller Plekanec or DD to give him a spot. He isn't a 4th line center and would not be happy there long term

I just can't see a scenario where Gomez is in the lineup on October 1st(or whenever the season starts).

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05-10-2012, 08:17 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Man, what kind of a player do you think the Habs are going to get for 3.8, and 2.8 in the next 2 seasons that makes it worth it to buy out Gomez?

Especially since then in years 3 and 4 they have a 1.666 cap hit as well, which significantly weakens their depth at forward or defence.

I don't underestimate anything...a scenario wherein the Habs can spend to the cap to create the best team possible compared to a scenario wherein the Habs can spend 3.5 under the cap, and 4.5 under the cap in the first 2 years than 1.666 under the cap in the 2 years after that is completely counter productive to icing a winning team.

Molson's number one goal should be to make money, the best way to do that is to ice a team that has the potential to go far in the playoffs. Frankly I think a team would take him on re-entry waivers, I think it's quite obvious that the pressure of the contract has been weighing on Gomez and if he could play in a new situation without the burden of being so outrageously paid it'd be good for him. I'd way rather the Habs had a 3.7 cap hit for 2 years than a 3.5, 4.5, 1.666, 1.666 scenario.

As I said earlier...what exactly are you going to get with the 2.8 saved in year 2? Does that on any level make it worth losing 1.666 for teh 2 years afterwards as well? Especially since next years UFA class has the potential to be really strong.

Buying him should not even be an option, it's counter productive on every level.
You've chosen to outline a situation in which the cap doesn't go up next year, or the one after it, which is fine. But since I think we can still expect the cap to go up (at least next year), it's not just $2.8 million next year, it's $2.8+X - and $2.8+X+Y for year 2. And again, the buyout option means that ownership pays less real dollars for the nothing they get in return.

Also part of the situation you outlined involved no "hard" decisions made regarding players currently "here" and/or under contract. Campoli cost $1.75 million last year. Think he's still going to be around and commanding that much again next year? There's potential for $1 million in savings over a possible replacement player right there. Diaz and Weber were both on the books, and if only one of them stays around, that's another $900K that Bergevin can use if needed. I could go further and discuss the options of moving Gionta, Kaberle, Bourque, Moen, or even Markov or Plekanec, but the general gist is that if getting Gomez out of the organization and giving him a fresh start somewhere is a priority, there are many combinations of possible moves that include the buyout option. I mean, you talk about year 2, but we're currently only committed to something like $40 million in cap hit for 2013-14, when the cap could approach $70 million, so where's the fire?

I'm not even saying that I'd necessarily go that route. Having said that, getting Gomez completely out of the organization would be a priority for me. When so many people seem so dead against the idea based on the narrow scope of their analysis, though, someone has to add the counter-points.

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05-10-2012, 08:44 AM
  #460
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Next season he might serve as an injury recall if he's outplaying the rest of the Bulldog centers.
Hoping that he's claimed on waivers if we send him back?

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05-10-2012, 09:41 AM
  #461
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So is it too early to say that Louis Jean's scoop was a scoop of X?

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05-10-2012, 10:43 AM
  #462
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The best way out of the Gomez conundrum is to leverage the third overall pick in the June Entry Draft. You piggy-back your most crippling liability to your most enfranchising, draft-floor enticing, highly tradable asset.

A J.Stall-for-3rd+Gomez-type deal with Pittsburg for example, ...as was debated in these threads a short while ago. The Penguins can then pick 'dire need' over 'center-ice power' redundancy, and push Gomez into the third line slot for a shot at end-of-contract redemption. Knowing how strong the pull of unconstrained vanity on a crippled repute, I get the feeling Gomez would deliver nicely for the Penguins what he could no longer emotionally summon up for the peculiar market served by 'Les Canadiens'.

The Habs get an effective first line center, a player whose talent was/is vastly underutilized in the Pittsburg context,...and a well deserved all-around clean slate for your neophyte G.M. and H.Coach.'Cry-me-a-river' over the loss of a 'once-in-a-Habs-lifetime' drafting opportunity notwithstanding, the trick here is to make the most of a renewal-avert situation.

If you buy Gomez out, you undermine medium-term asset management for the team under a thoroughly revamped administration. Talk about foresight...!

You cannot otherwise bury a veteran player such as Gomez in the Minors. He negotiated his bountiful contract in good faith, ...and so did the Rangers. And you willfully traded for it, ...for better or for worse. He happens to be somewhat of a misfit in Montreal, so be it. No need to arbitrarily downgrade a well respected locker room veteran, and maul his pride in the process, on the altar of your own misjudgment. Word will soon get around the league ...and the free agent market...that the so-called 'revamped' Habs showpiece nothing but a classless, greedy organization.

Ethical pragmatism ought to get the 'new generation' Habs securely off the conundrum's hook.

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05-10-2012, 11:23 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by tlureb View Post
The best way out of the Gomez conundrum is to leverage the third overall pick in the June Entry Draft. You piggy-back your most crippling liability to your most enfranchising, draft-floor enticing, highly tradable asset.

A J.Stall-for-3rd+Gomez-type deal with Pittsburg for example, ...as was debated in these threads a short while ago. The Penguins can then pick 'dire need' over 'center-ice power' redundancy, and push Gomez into the third line slot for a shot at end-of-contract redemption. Knowing how strong the pull of unconstrained vanity on a crippled repute, I get the feeling Gomez would deliver nicely for the Penguins what he could no longer emotionally summon up for the peculiar market served by 'Les Canadiens'.

The Habs get an effective first line center, a player whose talent was/is vastly underutilized in the Pittsburg context,...and a well deserved all-around clean slate for your neophyte G.M. and H.Coach.'Cry-me-a-river' over the loss of a 'once-in-a-Habs-lifetime' drafting opportunity notwithstanding, the trick here is to make the most of a renewal-avert situation.

If you buy Gomez out, you undermine medium-term asset management for the team under a thoroughly revamped administration. Talk about foresight...!

You cannot otherwise bury a veteran player such as Gomez in the Minors. He negotiated his bountiful contract in good faith, ...and so did the Rangers. And you willfully traded for it, ...for better or for worse. He happens to be somewhat of a misfit in Montreal, so be it. No need to arbitrarily downgrade a well respected locker room veteran, and maul his pride in the process, on the altar of your own misjudgment. Word will soon get around the league ...and the free agent market...that the so-called 'revamped' Habs showpiece nothing but a classless, greedy organization.

Ethical pragmatism ought to get the 'new generation' Habs securely off the conundrum's hook.
That's great and all, but there's one big flaw in it: no one would want Gomez's cap hit, it really is the issue here.

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05-10-2012, 11:35 AM
  #464
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So is it too early to say that Louis Jean's scoop was a scoop of X?
It was immediately identified as such pretty much the moment he said it. Our GM wasn't even officially in place yet, so there's no way he could have had a "scoop". All this modern "journalism" of rushing to have the next "scoop" is so annoying. I mean, great, if you REALLY have an unimpeachable scoop. Otherwise, just stop, give your head a shake, and write nice article or tweet a nice tweet or blog a nice blog about something that's actually worthwhile, interview a player, check out a prospect, talk to a scout, do a flashback/where are they now piece, whatever. At least make it "real".

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05-10-2012, 11:51 AM
  #465
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That is absolutely false!

It wasn't the first thing Bergevin talked about........he didn't even bring it up until he was directly asked about it.

This site is insane for people completely fabricating events to suit their opinions.
And it was one of the first questions that was asked. Like with the question of bringing in more french players, it's like he had already decided what to answer, he was aware of the importance of the situation. He could have said "well Gomez is part of this team, he is like all of the other players, bla bla we're gonna evaluate the whole team, etc..." but no the way he answered very decisively it felt like he had made up his mind with him.

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05-10-2012, 12:01 PM
  #466
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Even if Bergevin had made up his mind on Gomez he wouldn't have said anything at that press conference. It wasn't the time or place and would have made Gomez the headline the next day instaed of his hiring.

They have no deadline close to make those kids of moves anyways.

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05-10-2012, 12:04 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by tlureb View Post
The best way out of the Gomez conundrum is to leverage the third overall pick in the June Entry Draft. You piggy-back your most crippling liability to your most enfranchising, draft-floor enticing, highly tradable asset.

A J.Stall-for-3rd+Gomez-type deal with Pittsburg for example, ...as was debated in these threads a short while ago. The Penguins can then pick 'dire need' over 'center-ice power' redundancy, and push Gomez into the third line slot for a shot at end-of-contract redemption. Knowing how strong the pull of unconstrained vanity on a crippled repute, I get the feeling Gomez would deliver nicely for the Penguins what he could no longer emotionally summon up for the peculiar market served by 'Les Canadiens'.

The Habs get an effective first line center, a player whose talent was/is vastly underutilized in the Pittsburg context,...and a well deserved all-around clean slate for your neophyte G.M. and H.Coach.'Cry-me-a-river' over the loss of a 'once-in-a-Habs-lifetime' drafting opportunity notwithstanding, the trick here is to make the most of a renewal-avert situation.

If you buy Gomez out, you undermine medium-term asset management for the team under a thoroughly revamped administration. Talk about foresight...!

You cannot otherwise bury a veteran player such as Gomez in the Minors. He negotiated his bountiful contract in good faith, ...and so did the Rangers. And you willfully traded for it, ...for better or for worse. He happens to be somewhat of a misfit in Montreal, so be it. No need to arbitrarily downgrade a well respected locker room veteran, and maul his pride in the process, on the altar of your own misjudgment. Word will soon get around the league ...and the free agent market...that the so-called 'revamped' Habs showpiece nothing but a classless, greedy organization.

Ethical pragmatism ought to get the 'new generation' Habs securely off the conundrum's hook.
Wade Redden, gaborik, and Richards all say hi.

Redden's demotion didn't seem to stop some of the biggest FAs of the last couple years from joining them. Couple that with the fact you mention the Penguins trading Staal for Gomez, and it's a pretty laughable post.

3 centres all making over 7mill...

Why would we pair our best asset with our worst, effectively turning our best asset of the last 30 years into a mediocre trade asset? Especially when you could just bury Gomez, and all it would cost is money...


Last edited by centrehice: 05-10-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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05-10-2012, 12:07 PM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlureb View Post
The best way out of the Gomez conundrum is to leverage the third overall pick in the June Entry Draft. You piggy-back your most crippling liability to your most enfranchising, draft-floor enticing, highly tradable asset.

A J.Stall-for-3rd+Gomez-type deal with Pittsburg for example, ...as was debated in these threads a short while ago. The Penguins can then pick 'dire need' over 'center-ice power' redundancy, and push Gomez into the third line slot for a shot at end-of-contract redemption. Knowing how strong the pull of unconstrained vanity on a crippled repute, I get the feeling Gomez would deliver nicely for the Penguins what he could no longer emotionally summon up for the peculiar market served by 'Les Canadiens'.

The Habs get an effective first line center, a player whose talent was/is vastly underutilized in the Pittsburg context,...and a well deserved all-around clean slate for your neophyte G.M. and H.Coach.'Cry-me-a-river' over the loss of a 'once-in-a-Habs-lifetime' drafting opportunity notwithstanding, the trick here is to make the most of a renewal-avert situation.

If you buy Gomez out, you undermine medium-term asset management for the team under a thoroughly revamped administration. Talk about foresight...!

You cannot otherwise bury a veteran player such as Gomez in the Minors. He negotiated his bountiful contract in good faith, ...and so did the Rangers. And you willfully traded for it, ...for better or for worse. He happens to be somewhat of a misfit in Montreal, so be it. No need to arbitrarily downgrade a well respected locker room veteran, and maul his pride in the process, on the altar of your own misjudgment. Word will soon get around the league ...and the free agent market...that the so-called 'revamped' Habs showpiece nothing but a classless, greedy organization.

Ethical pragmatism ought to get the 'new generation' Habs securely off the conundrum's hook.
Penguins are not taking a $7.4M Gomez with all their high paid star players.

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05-10-2012, 12:20 PM
  #469
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Penguins are not taking a $7.4M Gomez with all their high paid star players.
Gomez' contract is no longer about actual money, it's only about Cap hit now.

His actual monetary value is only 5.5 in 12/13 and 4.5 in 13/14.

Granted though, Pittsburgh is one of the very last teams that would take on Gomez' cap hit.

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05-10-2012, 12:37 PM
  #470
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Gomez' contract is no longer about actual money, it's only about Cap hit now.

His actual monetary value is only 5.5 in 12/13 and 4.5 in 13/14.

Granted though, Pittsburgh is one of the very last teams that would take on Gomez' cap hit.
It depends.

If you talk to the 10-12 smaller markets its 98% about salary since they don't spend to the cap, usually only up to the cap floor, a cap hit higher than salary is actually an advantage.

If you talk to the top 10-12 markets, it's 98% about cap hit, having a high salary and low cap hit is an advantage for them as their revenue stream allows them to front load contracts and always spend to the cap ceiling.

The other teams it depends on particular circumstances. It's too bad Gomez isn't playing at a level that justifies 4-5 mil/year I think we could actually get a decent return(B prospect or 2nd or 3rd rounder) from a small market team needing help at center and trying to get to the cap floor.

Edit. you are right in terms of Pittsburgh, they are a big NHL market and spent to the cap so his cap hit would be a no go for them.

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05-10-2012, 04:11 PM
  #471
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I have been saying the same thing to my buddies. I would not be surprised at all if he starts the season with the Habs. He is a good locker room guy
And you know that because.... ????

Oh yeah, his team mates said he was a good locker room guy. In fact not one of them came out and said Gomez is a cancer in the locker room. That is definitely proof that he is good in the locker room.

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05-10-2012, 04:18 PM
  #472
Lafleurs Guy
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Well, Saku Koivu got re-signed today. Who'd have thought that he'd last longer in the NHL than Gomez would....

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05-10-2012, 05:01 PM
  #473
InnuJoker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
They played with Elias, not Parise. It was known as the EGG line.
Oh, didn't know that. Let's try to get that Elias guy then

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05-10-2012, 05:10 PM
  #474
Harpo
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I don't think Gomez will be back. The biggest reason is not that his contract is awful and that he sucks at hockey, but I think Geoff Molson wants fans to start anew next season, and the biggest symbol of failure in past years is Scott.

With that said, from a hockey point of view, if we fail to land UFAs so that cap space isn't an issue, I wouldn't mind having him on a third or fourth line.

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05-10-2012, 05:30 PM
  #475
RoadTotheCup
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Just send him to Europe and pay is salary this way you free up your cap space and is spot to better or younger players.Sending him to europe Is a more glorified way than the AHL. If they are really determined to win, they need to do what is necessary at some point to stop running after their own tails.

You don't want to be stuck with is salary counting on the cap space even if its only half of is salary. You don't want to give assets or a package with our first pick too to get rid of him. It would mean trying to correct a mistake while doing another one.

Just like Chicago did with Huet.
http://nhlhotstove.com/blackhawks-ge...o-switzerland/

They need to stop F***ing around.

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