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Well, Whatever happens in Game 7, I am proud of this team

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Old
05-10-2012, 12:57 PM
  #51
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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who cares about the regular season? Once the playoffs start it really doesnt matter much IMO......

Im not sure what you are asking for or complaining about though.....this is a team that bowed out easliy in the 2nd round last season, was the regular season really that hard to imagine? Add in a coaching change, losing the only legit offensive center for half the season (as well as 52 for most of it), and below average goaltending....and it just seems like its complaining just to complain....wether you agree with the way they play hockey now, that doesnt change without some discomfort
Apparently some people do care about the regular season, as they're giving the Caps more credit for being a lower seed.

I'm saying I don't care about it. They don't get more credit from me for getting this far just because they're the lower seed. They get the same amount of credit they'd get if they won the President's Trophy.

Like I said, I'm quite sure that if you could speak to Dale candidly, he'd agree with my assessment that they're far from where they need to be defensively, because of their inability to stop the cycle and clear the zone. It's something they need to fix/improve if they want to get further.

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05-10-2012, 01:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Apparently some people do care about the regular season, as they're giving the Caps more credit for being a lower seed.

I'm saying I don't care about it. They don't get more credit from me for getting this far just because they're the lower seed. They get the same amount of credit they'd get if they won the President's Trophy.

Like I said, I'm quite sure that if you could speak to Dale candidly, he'd agree with my assessment that they're far from where they need to be defensively, because of their inability to stop the cycle and clear the zone. It's something they need to fix/improve if they want to get further.
NBTW, i agree that they deserve no more credit. they are not a cinderalla team. they are a championship caliber team that lost its way and is finding themselves again.

i disagree at least to an extent on your defensive pov. the caps system in their own end is VERY conservative. they would rather the other team keep possession and remain to the outside than take any risk to gain possession.

witness how many times caps defenseman choose to hold the puck on the boards and take a hit rather than move the puck when they would appear to have time to find a play. they take the safe way out which is to just hold the puck and pin it to the boards.

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05-10-2012, 01:05 PM
  #53
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not true. You win respect in this league from winning. Losing like you always have only with more bruises just earns you a better tee time.

This bunch has been a cup contender for 4 straight seasons. Every playoff season since their first playoff year. This team did not enter the season or these playoffs content to just make them. Its win or fail because they've used up their pass cards.

They need to win. I am certainly proud of their toughness but losing "the right way" carries no special value to me. Its still and l.

Just win the game.
example: San jose sharks (for the past 5 years)

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05-10-2012, 01:12 PM
  #54
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NBTW, i agree that they deserve no more credit. they are not a cinderalla team. they are a championship caliber team that lost its way and is finding themselves again.

i disagree at least to an extent on your defensive pov. the caps system in their own end is VERY conservative. they would rather the other team keep possession and remain to the outside than take any risk to gain possession.

witness how many times caps defenseman choose to hold the puck on the boards and take a hit rather than move the puck when they would appear to have time to find a play. they take the safe way out which is to just hold the puck and pin it to the boards.
I'm sure this is true, but anticipating the cycle and make smarter clearing passes would not involve taking risk. Dale and JJ don't want them constantly chasing the puck and coughing it up to the point men.

I'm actually somewhat surprised the coaching staff hasn't told the Caps to just lay off the Rags in the corners of the offensive zone, and clog the passing lanes out instead.

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05-10-2012, 01:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Apparently some people do care about the regular season, as they're giving the Caps more credit for being a lower seed.

I'm saying I don't care about it. They don't get more credit from me for getting this far just because they're the lower seed. They get the same amount of credit they'd get if they won the President's Trophy.

Like I said, I'm quite sure that if you could speak to Dale candidly, he'd agree with my assessment that they're far from where they need to be defensively, because of their inability to stop the cycle and clear the zone. It's something they need to fix/improve if they want to get further.
IMO they were a clear cut underdog against Boston.....regardless of seeding. For that I say they deserve some credit.....bonus for doing it with the 3rd string goalie

They were a higher seed against Pit and I felt like they were the underdog so I agree that seeding doesnt matter that much....on the same note there are teams they should beat, again.....regardless of seed. Losing to teams like that is a bit more unforgivable, for lack of a better term.

To equate the Boston win with beating NYR last season (or this season if they win) isnt how I look at it or giving it the proper recognition it deserves. Didnt you call for a sweep? and now its just any old series win?

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05-10-2012, 01:33 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
IMO they were a clear cut underdog against Boston.....regardless of seeding. For that I say they deserve some credit.....bonus for doing it with the 3rd string goalie

They were a higher seed against Pit and I felt like they were the underdog so I agree that seeding doesnt matter that much....on the same note there are teams they should beat, again.....regardless of seed. Losing to teams like that is a bit more unforgivable, for lack of a better term.

To equate the Boston win with beating NYR last season (or this season if they win) isnt how I look at it or giving it the proper recognition it deserves. Didnt you call for a sweep? and now its just any old series win?
Yes, I called for a sweep. They were playing like crap heading in and crap in game 1.

And yes, it's still just a series win. It's no more than they accomplished 2 of the last 4 years. You don't get trophies for winning the first round.


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05-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #57
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The problem I have with taking what you can and being happy with progress is I don't know if they're actually making progress. I don't know if this is a style where you can look for the team to improve, because I think this is closer to the MTL (Halak) method than it is to, say, the Lemaire Devils.

Shut down the flow so that every game is a coin flip, regardless of specific skill advantages. Great if you're by far the less talented team, but the Caps shouldn't be that (not by a large margin at least; there are obviously matchups they'll lose on talent but given their makeup they should be close). If you think this team is going to be better in the talent department next year (if only from guys maturing) I don't think you can apply this system and expect to get dramatically better results. Every game will still be a coin flip unless they actually change the game plan.

That would make me more optimistic, actually, changing the game plan. There have been glimpses of that (seem more aggressive at times than they were earlier on) but it's still a ways to go before I'd feel "good." I want to see them dictating the pace of games more consistently to feel good about them.

There's also the line of thought that this might be their best chance to do it, given the way the league has shaken out. Tough to feel good about it if they squander another golden chance.

I will say this, though. The mental, let's call it "rebalancing," of this team is nice to see. Never thought I'd see them behave this way. Now if they could just get smarter (from the coaching on down) I'd feel great about them...

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05-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Yes, I called for a sweep. They were playing like crap heading in and crap in game 1.

And yes, it's still just a series win It's no more than they accomplished 3 of the last 5 years. You don't get trophies for winning the first round.
I just dont agree......with that logic every series loss is the same, just a loss.

There are big series wins and losses.....they are all big, but some just stand out. There is a reason we all feel chills and remember where we were when we see Hunter score on Hextall replays......it was a huge series win. hell....doesnt the NHL have an ad campaign around huge playoff moments?

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05-10-2012, 01:58 PM
  #59
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The problem I have with taking what you can and being happy with progress is I don't know if they're actually making progress. I don't know if this is a style where you can look for the team to improve, because I think this is closer to the MTL (Halak) method than it is to, say, the Lemaire Devils.

Shut down the flow so that every game is a coin flip, regardless of specific skill advantages. Great if you're by far the less talented team, but the Caps shouldn't be that (not by a large margin at least; there are obviously matchups they'll lose on talent but given their makeup they should be close). If you think this team is going to be better in the talent department next year (if only from guys maturing) I don't think you can apply this system and expect to get dramatically better results. Every game will still be a coin flip unless they actually change the game plan.

That would make me more optimistic, actually, changing the game plan. There have been glimpses of that (seem more aggressive at times than they were earlier on) but it's still a ways to go before I'd feel "good." I want to see them dictating the pace of games more consistently to feel good about them.

There's also the line of thought that this might be their best chance to do it, given the way the league has shaken out. Tough to feel good about it if they squander another golden chance.

I will say this, though. The mental, let's call it "rebalancing," of this team is nice to see. Never thought I'd see them behave this way. Now if they could just get smarter (from the coaching on down) I'd feel great about them...
I dont think so, honestly. They beat the Bruins. Arguably *the best* team going, records and seeds be damned. Again, we beat the reigning champs. Never done that before. As much as NBTW wants to say thats "just another 1st round win", it isnt. Practically, maybe he's right. Logically and emotionally, he's wrong.

Now the Caps are doing the same thing to the Rangers. Win or no, they are doing it to them. I dont buy that its going to be a nip and tuck game, playing this way, with the entire NHL. It's been nip and tuck with the 2 top teams in the East (seedings wise, only), and thats saying something.

Anyway, people will see what they want to see, me included. Its different this year, thats my feelings.

It was interesting to see Tracee Hamilton's piece today. While I'm not her biggest fan, as she changes direction like the wind, she brings up a lot of what I was feeling about this team, last night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...UEU_story.html

Anyway, lets all enjoy game 7, and hopefully CAPITALize on what could be a real chance at the Brass Ring.....and also recognize the strides this team has made. It CAN go both ways, you know.

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05-10-2012, 02:03 PM
  #60
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The Bruins were not the best team going. They were ripe for an upset (I didn't believe the Caps would pull it off, so kudos to them for doing it, but the groundwork was there).

Thomas wasn't the Thomas they had before. They didn't have Horton. Some of their key contributors weren't mentally prepared. The team itself had had an iffy second half (comparable to the Caps').

You can say that being the defending champs comes with an inbuilt intimidation factor and whatnot, fine. But that team wasn't the best coming in by a long shot.

And for the record, I'll let myself use the word "impressed" to describe how I feel about what they've done so far (partly because I'm a pessimist). But not proud. If they had done what they were supposed to do at any of several points then they could have been in an even better position than they are now.

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05-10-2012, 02:11 PM
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Say the Caps lose Saturday. Do you really think anyone will look back on the Boston series in a few years, and remember how great of a win it was?

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05-10-2012, 02:12 PM
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Good luck Saturday night gents, it's been one hell of a series. Here's to proper officiating in a game 7(for both sides), lets hope the refs just let them play this one out!


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05-10-2012, 02:21 PM
  #63
Ridley Simon
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Say the Caps lose Saturday. Do you really think anyone will look back on the Boston series in a few years, and remember how great of a win it was?
Yeah, I do. As has been noted, people still talk about the 1st round LOSS to the Isles in 87, the first round WIN against the Flyers in 88, etc etc etc

So...yeah. I do think they will.

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05-10-2012, 02:26 PM
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I can't say I've ever heard anyone talk about the first round loss to the Isles. And people don't really talk about the win against the Flyers, they talk about Hunter's goal.

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05-10-2012, 02:29 PM
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The Bruins were not the best team going. They were ripe for an upset (I didn't believe the Caps would pull it off, so kudos to them for doing it, but the groundwork was there).

Thomas wasn't the Thomas they had before. They didn't have Horton. Some of their key contributors weren't mentally prepared. The team itself had had an iffy second half (comparable to the Caps').

You can say that being the defending champs comes with an inbuilt intimidation factor and whatnot, fine. But that team wasn't the best coming in by a long shot.

And for the record, I'll let myself use the word "impressed" to describe how I feel about what they've done so far (partly because I'm a pessimist). But not proud. If they had done what they were supposed to do at any of several points then they could have been in an even better position than they are now.
I disagree with your comments. Who was better/respected coming into the playoffs? Maybe NYR? Other than that? You wont tell me Phoenix, Los Angeles, or New Jersey.

Thomas played well (just like Lundqvist), Holtby just beat him. Is that so hard to admit?

Horton was missing, but Seguin was much better. Rolston wasnt as good as Recchi. They were a different team than last year (by a little bit, not a lot), but the Caps changed/frustrated them. They had all of their main horses save Horton, and the Caps beat them.

Its fine....6 of one, half dozen of the other.

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05-10-2012, 02:32 PM
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I can't say I've ever heard anyone talk about the first round loss to the Isles. And people don't really talk about the win against the Flyers, they talk about Hunter's goal.
You've never heard anyone talk about the LaFontaine goal? Seriously? I believe that it was Boswell who mentioned it in one of his recent (last week or so) pieces? It's talked about all the time.

Ok, I wont argue with you.....

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05-10-2012, 02:40 PM
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You've never heard anyone talk about the LaFontaine goal? Seriously? I believe that it was Boswell who mentioned it in one of his recent (last week or so) pieces? It's talked about all the time.

Ok, I wont argue with you.....
Talking about a goal does not equal talking about a series loss.

Yes, I've heard people talk about the LaFontaine goal. But I've never heard anyone talk about that loss fondly--ever. Your statement was an implication that people did. So I have no idea what point you were trying to prove with that mention.

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05-10-2012, 02:45 PM
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Just win makes everyone happy, obviously.

If you guys dont want to see the strides, then thats fine too.
Ok, what strides though really? The fact they're allowing fewer goals? Is that because of the defensive style or the fact that their 3rd string goalie has been their MVP to date? Regardless, ok they're allowing fewer goals...isn't that offset by the fact they are scoring far fewer?

I mean if they lose Saturday, what's the difference between losing a 7-game series with NY, with tight, 2-1 type games, vs. losing a 7-game series to the Penguins in a tight, 5-4 type of games series? The result is the same....

Now if they advance, kudos, but again how much of that is because of the way they're playing? I hate saying this but a lot of it is luck. The margin for error is zip. They are playing this wonderful new "style" but think about it, one bouncy puck or divot in the ice can ruin them. How many posts/crossbars have been hit by both teams in this series, when just one of them would have altered the outcome of a game and the series?

There has to be a way to play the good defense but also get more chances...these games are all too close for comfort. Game 5 was the textbook example of why this system, style whatever still needs work.

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05-10-2012, 02:47 PM
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The problem I have with taking what you can and being happy with progress is I don't know if they're actually making progress.
From a macro standpoint I think you'd have to say they are if we assume Holtby isn't a fluke. They have made his job easier but he alone gives them a much better chance going forward, provided he's legit. (I don't see why not...)

Laich & Johansson are miscast in their current scoring-line roles so from a personnel standpoint there's ample room for improvement provided an honest assessment is made. If there were more capable offensive players in those spots they arguably would have had a much easier time finishing off Boston and could have made a more concerted push in gaining control of this series in Game 3. Those two in their current roles are the single biggest reason why nine more wins seems like a fairly tall order.

They are a coin flip team but they're also a team that isn't really that deep or stacked up front as many might think. They have three top-line talents, a fringe top sixer with speed in Chimera and the rest IMO is filler. That's not to say Hunter should be off the hook when it comes to possession weakness but the system itself isn't why the top six has holes in it. Those two players just don't bring enough of a possession game to the table...even at a rudimentary level.

There's much room for improvement when it comes to their composure with the puck, especially when holding onto leads. Off the glass and out works when teams are pushing at times but not when there are outlets being missed by the D due to rushed decisions. Improving that area of their game and upgrading the overall hardness/skill of the top six would better position them next season I think...assuming no unforeseen losses on D.

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05-10-2012, 02:49 PM
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Talking about a goal does not equal talking about a series loss.

Yes, I've heard people talk about the LaFontaine goal. But I've never heard anyone talk about that loss fondly--ever. Your statement was an implication that people did. So I have no idea what point you were trying to prove with that mention.
There was nothing fond about that goal or series. That was a 3-1 series lead where they finally were going to get over the Islanders hurdle...the series was blown and that game (I was listening on the radio, we didn't have HTS on cable yet) was a soul crushing disappointment.

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05-10-2012, 02:52 PM
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I'm right there with you Rids...


Honestly, this might be the best team playoff-wise the Caps have ever assembled. 5 on 5, it's been a LONG time since I've seen a team as dominant (defensively) in the playoffs. Takes the steam out of my FIRE MCPHEE train, but it's all good.

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05-10-2012, 03:18 PM
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You've never heard anyone talk about the LaFontaine goal? Seriously? I believe that it was Boswell who mentioned it in one of his recent (last week or so) pieces? It's talked about all the time.

Ok, I wont argue with you.....
My little grouping of Caps fans (all original season tix holders) still talks about the LaFontaine goal. Most of us were there. That was one of the longest drives home I can ever remember.

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05-10-2012, 03:20 PM
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I'm right there with you Rids...


Honestly, this might be the best team playoff-wise the Caps have ever assembled. 5 on 5, it's been a LONG time since I've seen a team as dominant (defensively) in the playoffs. Takes the steam out of my FIRE MCPHEE train, but it's all good.
I third that. Probably the best Caps playoff squad these eyeballs have ever seen. Perfect, no. But damned good. Hoping the ride continues past Saturday.

Edit: NBTW - We will have to agree to disagree re: being proud of the team as a "loser's mentality". This organization went through a lot of internal crap this season. To overcome a lot of that and be in this position right now, to me, is commendable. This fan will not be upset with them if they lose on Saturday.


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05-10-2012, 03:25 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Talking about a goal does not equal talking about a series loss.

Yes, I've heard people talk about the LaFontaine goal. But I've never heard anyone talk about that loss fondly--ever. Your statement was an implication that people did. So I have no idea what point you were trying to prove with that mention.
No, my point was to a memorable series. 1st round wins/losses are memorable, and distinctive from others.

I was answering your original question, you are trying to talk in circles.

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05-10-2012, 03:28 PM
  #75
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There was nothing fond about that goal or series. That was a 3-1 series lead where they finally were going to get over the Islanders hurdle...the series was blown and that game (I was listening on the radio, we didn't have HTS on cable yet) was a soul crushing disappointment.
you guys are hilarious. NBTW asked me if the Bruins 1st round win would be memorable a few years from now, and that people didnt remember 1st round results.

I answered that yes, I would remember it as being "memorable", and I referred to the first rounds results from 87 and 88.

Yeeesh. No one from Caps land will EVER remember 87 fondly, but they will remember it, nonetheless. Hence it's memorable, and a whole lot more so than say 92 or 93 or 2002.

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