Just adding this in here, since I've been following this thread: Larry Robinson doesn't want to be a head coach. He finds it awfully stressful and much prefers to stay an assistant. He's been our head coach twice, once because Ftorek got fired and he was the main assistant, and once because Lou basically begged him to. I don't think he'd be willing to do it again.
Also, the only organization I could see him leaving NJ for is Montreal.
They did a much better job at creating pressure in Philly's end. People can refer to our goal stats all they want, Sid was largely neutralized with Sully and Duper. We need an upgrade in that regard. Needs to be addressed by next postseason.
We can talk about overpaying a 4th liner like Tootoo or Prust all we want, but dedicating that cap space to properly insulate Sid/Geno is the way to go moving forward. Especially if Staal leaves.
This is why I keeps saying if the trade off from moving Staal is that Sid and Geno BOTH have two good wingers each (and then presumably Dan Bylsma uses them the right way, i.e., like Sutter uses Richards and Kopitar), then IMO the Pens win that trade off. IMO, they're a better team-- a tougher match up-- with Sid and Geno both having two good wingers and a pedestrian third line than they are with a talent diluted 3C model or a model where Geno plays on the wing and you've got a pedestrian third line (which is one of the two things you'll get if Staal stays).
They also arguably have a coach who puts players into position to make plays, but I digress . . .
You're not wrong, but at the same time, I don't think Paul Martin can be coached to knock a player off the puck. That's what his patented pokecheck is for.
You sound like Orpik and Sid making those excuses. The fact that they were on the brink of going down 0-3 is exactly why they needed to keep their cool. Things were going poorly but it was the first period. Going into meltdown mode at that point was embarrassing.
The fact that these guys defended their own actions, and refused to take responsibility even after getting eliminated, and the way DB just stood there and watched all these issues compounding over the final weeks, is concerning to me. It shows that there could be some major issues in that locker room, like a lack of accountability.
Look at the actual game. At one point they called a slew of penalties on the Pens. 3 or 4 guys in the box with solo 2min calls. That goes back to the point of the Flyers flopping and refs buying it while they weren't versus the Devils.
Sid got tied up with Giroux when they were down 3-1 and the Pens crawled back into the game. The Hartnell/Sid thing, it was over at that point. Flyers had a 2 or 3 goal lead and nothing was working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticFox
Which might just be an issue of captaincy...
inb4 I'm keelhauled for suggesting Sid is a whiny bad leader
ETA: The undisciplined play was really a result of a perfect storm for me. Bad play, especially the PK. Couldn't get a save. Couldn't get a break with the refs.
Last edited by SidTheKid8787: 05-10-2012 at 09:24 PM.
Just adding this in here, since I've been following this thread: Larry Robinson doesn't want to be a head coach. He finds it awfully stressful and much prefers to stay an assistant. He's been our head coach twice, once because Ftorek got fired and he was the main assistant, and once because Lou basically begged him to. I don't think he'd be willing to do it again.
Also, the only organization I could see him leaving NJ for is Montreal.
Interesting and I doubt doubt it. I've heard the Montreal thing before as well. No doubt it would be a pressure cooker of a job next year after the way we exited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan
You're not wrong, but at the same time, I don't think Paul Martin can be coached to knock a player off the puck. That's what his patented pokecheck is for.
Paul Martin is a smooth negotiator... offering a gourmet brunch in exchange for a dropped puck is not unheard of.
You're not wrong, but at the same time, I don't think Paul Martin can be coached to knock a player off the puck. That's what his patented pokecheck is for.
I know. It's just with all of this trade talk, all of this 'we could do this or sign this player', I still keep coming back to this little queasy thought: Bylsma is still the coach. Granato and Rierden are still the assistants. And, there's at best some sketchy talk of maybe sort of making some system changes.
I know. It's just with all of this trade talk, all of this 'we could do this or sign this player', I still keep coming back to this little queasy thought: Bylsma is still the coach. Granato and Rierden are still the assistants. And, there's at best some sketchy talk of maybe sort of making some system changes.
Well sure, but let's take it easy with the queasy-ness untill at least August. Changes will come - no matter if we directly know about them or not. We were on a crazy offensive roll from december up untill a few games before post-season.
Reirden needs to go, Bylsma needs to get his ass chewed out by Mario.
I'm sorry but can you say the team played better with Sid? There's been all sorts of praise of how well the Pens played without Sid but noone has even mentioned how inconsistent it is with him back lately.
Sorry but I feel that Sid is not that good a captain. Great player, just not the type to lead.
I'm sorry but can you say the team played better with Sid? There's been all sorts of praise of how well the Pens played without Sid but noone has even mentioned how inconsistent it is with him back lately.
Sorry but I feel that Sid is not that good a captain. Great player, just not the type to lead.
Don't agree at all but there is a problem to be sure. IMO its something I've seen the Pens do a long time ago. They cater to what they think their star wants and I actually don't think Sids that way. The Pens used to do the same thing with jagr and load up the team with a bunch of euro's. Heck they even hired a coach that couldn't speak english. Then you see article come out that has Jagr say you need a mix of style and types to win.
I think the call to play that loosy goosy crap came from above DB. I don't think Sid likes that style of game or even needs to be coddled that much.
I'm sorry but can you say the team played better with Sid? There's been all sorts of praise of how well the Pens played without Sid but noone has even mentioned how inconsistent it is with him back lately.
Sorry but I feel that Sid is not that good a captain. Great player, just not the type to lead.
Cup. You are very wrong. Sid isnt Fleurys personal therapist.
Look at the actual game. At one point they called a slew of penalties on the Pens. 3 or 4 guys in the box with solo 2min calls. That goes back to the point of the Flyers flopping and refs buying it while they weren't versus the Devils.
Sid got tied up with Giroux when they were down 3-1 and the Pens crawled back into the game. The Hartnell/Sid thing, it was over at that point. Flyers had a 2 or 3 goal lead and nothing was working.
It was probably the case that the Flyers in that moment got the better of the refs. However, if the Penguins had kept a level head during the games, the damage the Flyers did on the power play would have been minimized. Instead, the Penguins let the Flyers theatrics, diving, antagonism (crowd too) and hits annoy them and they responded. Then when the Flyers scored, the team got further annoyed, less focused on their game plan and more likely to retaliate. How many times during the series did you say to yourself, all right, just gotta not retaliate or take a stupid penalty and then we can get back into this? Only to see a minute later a guy take a liberty after the puck was gone or a guy not make an effort to move when you know (even as a casual fan) that a Flyers player is going to flop to make something look like interference.
It makes Laviolette look like a genius and that drives me up a wall. It was so clear from the beginning what the Flyers were going to do and it only got more clear as the series went on, but the Penguins never thought about walking away after the whistle.
I'm sorry but can you say the team played better with Sid? There's been all sorts of praise of how well the Pens played without Sid but noone has even mentioned how inconsistent it is with him back lately.
Sorry but I feel that Sid is not that good a captain. Great player, just not the type to lead.
There is no other captain in the league I would want over Crosby.
A captain can only do so much... Especially when he isn't on the PK unit that cost them the series.
Kind of hard to blame him for the historically bad PK when he was on the bench.
I'm sorry but can you say the team played better with Sid? There's been all sorts of praise of how well the Pens played without Sid but noone has even mentioned how inconsistent it is with him back lately.
Sorry but I feel that Sid is not that good a captain. Great player, just not the type to lead.
The Pens were 14-6-2 with Sid in the lineup, which is a .682 winning percentage.
The Pens were 37-19-4 with Sid out of the lineup, which is a .650 winning percentage.
Which statistically proves the team won more with him than without him. But because the PK (which he doesn't even play on) worked at about a 50% efficiency, and because Fleury and the defense sucked large, it's Sid's fault for being a bad captain?
The Pens were 14-6-2 with Sid in the lineup, which is a .682 winning percentage.
The Pens were 37-19-4 with Sid out of the lineup, which is a .650 winning percentage.
Which statistically proves the team won more with him than without him. But because the PK (which he doesn't even play on) worked at about a 50% efficiency, and because Fleury and the defense sucked large, it's Sid's fault for being a bad captain?
Those stats are skewed, though. During the time Sid was out of the line up, Staal, Letang, hell even TK were out of the lineup at different points as well. When Sid returned at the end of the season, Letang also returned and the team was 'whole' for the first time all season. I'd argue that's why the winning percentage went up, not just because Sid was back ... but because everyone was back.
Valid point regarding the PK though. Staal was regaled as the playoff hero, but a lot of those Philly PP goals were scored with Staal by the net ... if he's no longer effective and/or does not want to be on the PK unit, time to make some changes then. And I'm not trying to rationalize trading him, although speculating returns kills time in the off-season, I'd rather keep Staal. Just saying that maybe it's time to restructure the units.
