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Who's at fault for this year's debacle ?

View Poll Results: Who's at fault for this year's debacle ?
Poile 7 50.00%
Scouting 3 21.43%
Trotz 10 71.43%
Ownership 3 21.43%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-10-2012, 10:57 AM
  #51
101st_fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
When did I ever say the season was a debacle? When did I ever say the moves in the offseason were the wrong ones? I was one of the ones that defended the moves and applauded Poile for taking a chance on the youth of the team and getting rid of aging vets. I believed in the team and the potential to build on what happened in the playoffs last year. I never thought or said "fail for nail".

Simple strategy question. You say Trotz put the guys in a position to succeed right? We gave up a first for Gaustad, a guy who is a faceoff specialist. We get creamed in the first game of the series in the dot. Who took the faceoff when they scored the game winner? I believe it was Fisher. Why was Gaustad not out there? Why was Gaustad not out there to try and win faceoffs on the PP? Trotz finally used him in that situation in game 5. You get a guy specifically for that role and don't use him. I agree that Trotz can't go out there and shoot the puck for Fisher and Hornqvist but he could've made other moves that could've helped address some of the issues we had against Phoenix.

Playing Yip consistently was a head scratcher for sure. He praises Tootoo for being hard to play against yet sits him instead of Yip. No one is afraid of Yip. People look over their shoulder when Tootoo is in the lineup. That intimidation factor could've been used to our advantage.

The PP strategy was another one that could've been modified yet it wasn't.

All that said, I was behind the team, still am, I just have to question is Trotz the guy to get it done for us behind the bench. Some people say yes and some people like myself don't think he is. Honestly, doesn't make either one of us more right than the next because until Trotz wins a Cup or we get another coach in and see how he does, we'll never know.
In game 1, Gaustad wasn't out there because of an icing call ... unless Trotz gets to change the rules, he can't make a personnel change. Putting Goose out to take PP draws was a change made for game 5 ... of course, the problem is then making an immediate personnel change which temporarily negates a man advantage. The intimidation of Tootoo is overrated by us, just like Trotz's incompetence level.

Even with all of the mistakes Trotz is accused of making, how many scoring chances did our players have that they failed to capitalize upon? There were at least four gaping nets in game 4 alone. Several in game 1, more in game 5. All one goal losses where our players didn't capitalize on the opportunities given to them.

As I said in the other Fire Trotz thread, Trotz goes only when the owners and staff lose confidence in him and it becomes clear that his message isn't registering with the players. Given the effort level against the Yotes and the performance of this team, the indicators of his message going stale simply aren't there.

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05-10-2012, 01:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
In game 1, Gaustad wasn't out there because of an icing call ... unless Trotz gets to change the rules, he can't make a personnel change. Putting Goose out to take PP draws was a change made for game 5 ... of course, the problem is then making an immediate personnel change which temporarily negates a man advantage. The intimidation of Tootoo is overrated by us, just like Trotz's incompetence level.

Even with all of the mistakes Trotz is accused of making, how many scoring chances did our players have that they failed to capitalize upon? There were at least four gaping nets in game 4 alone. Several in game 1, more in game 5. All one goal losses where our players didn't capitalize on the opportunities given to them.

As I said in the other Fire Trotz thread, Trotz goes only when the owners and staff lose confidence in him and it becomes clear that his message isn't registering with the players. Given the effort level against the Yotes and the performance of this team, the indicators of his message going stale simply aren't there.
when you accept everything thing the coach and management says then your playing it safe. Granted he didn't miss the open nets and didn't captilize on the scoring chances but he still put the same cast out there and that's the cast he wanted. So if your saying that the players didn't do it your not giving a vote of confidense in the player or players he put in that position. So your saying the choices that Trotz put out there failed!!!

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05-10-2012, 01:40 PM
  #53
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You left out the Ryan Suter option.

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05-10-2012, 03:53 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darth5 View Post
Those blaming Trotz, think about the position this roster is likely to be in next season. Likely significant turnover. I can't think of an experienced coach on the sidelines right now that I would trust to forge a new nucleus. If you are on the Blame TROTZ bandwagon, who do you put in his place? And yes, I do think it is legit to pose the question that way...
Just because we're blaming Trotz doesn't mean we necessarily think he should be fired.

I don't know exactly where I stand. I see the point in keeping the guy and the stability he offers, but at the same time, the best thing for some franchises is a fresh start. We're aren't sure what the roster will look like next year, and who's to say the new guy won't come in and do more with what Trotz would have?

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05-10-2012, 04:08 PM
  #55
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As other teams thrive with new coaches, Predators stand pat

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05-10-2012, 06:31 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
Interesting read. And in the article it states more often than not, teams this past year did better with a new coach yet Poile stated that it's the other way around, that 2:1 it usually doesn't work. So who do we believe, Poile and the stats he threw out or the guy who wrote the article stating the facts?

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05-10-2012, 06:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Basher View Post
Just because we're blaming Trotz doesn't mean we necessarily think he should be fired.

I don't know exactly where I stand. I see the point in keeping the guy and the stability he offers, but at the same time, the best thing for some franchises is a fresh start. We're aren't sure what the roster will look like next year, and who's to say the new guy won't come in and do more with what Trotz would have?
At what point does he get fired when we don't make the playoffs or the bottom of the division. If the players start dictating that the coach is holding them back then what. But most players won't say that. It's all a gamble look what the gamble the Blues took and it paid off wonderfully where it didn't work in Columbus it did in Stl. We are settling for mediocrity

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05-10-2012, 07:31 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Interesting read. And in the article it states more often than not, teams this past year did better with a new coach yet Poile stated that it's the other way around, that 2:1 it usually doesn't work. So who do we believe, Poile and the stats he threw out or the guy who wrote the article stating the facts?
ive already done the research. more success was seen from teams with "new" coaches.. just look at the playoffs ... nyr, phx - new coach in past couple of seasons .. la, nj, wsh - new coach this season or during the season

change isn't always bad. but we have to make sure its whats best and not out of frustration.

and of course poile is going to cover trotz's rear

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05-10-2012, 08:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
ive already done the research. more success was seen from teams with "new" coaches.. just look at the playoffs ... nyr, phx - new coach in past couple of seasons .. la, nj, wsh - new coach this season or during the season

change isn't always bad. but we have to make sure its whats best and not out of frustration.

and of course poile is going to cover trotz's rear
Then there's Dallas who missed the playoffs one year under Tippett, changed coaches twice since then and still no post season. This is the third full season for Torts in NY with a first round exit and a missed playoffs in his first two full seasons ... one and done in the year he took over with 21 games remaining ... at the cap with huge names brought in. The Thrashers/Jets had how many coaches in that time frame? The Jackets are on coach 7 now with one playoff appearance. Anaheim changed coaches and it did no good. The Leafs brought in Wilson about the same time the Rangers and Yotes changed coaches with no improvement.

We're not seeing the indicators of a coach who can't get his team playing. Even against the Yotes, the team played hard and reacted to the changes implemented. Compare that to the early season Caps who were tanking bad ... or the Ducks with all of that firepower but couldn't score ... or the early Kings season which was very subpar ... and the times of when to change and when not become evident. Trotz hasn't lost the team and until he does there is no reason to change out of frustration or a kneejerk anger.

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05-10-2012, 09:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
ive already done the research. more success was seen from teams with "new" coaches.. just look at the playoffs ... nyr, phx - new coach in past couple of seasons .. la, nj, wsh - new coach this season or during the season

change isn't always bad. but we have to make sure its whats best and not out of frustration.

and of course poile is going to cover trotz's rear
Don't be so sure about that

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