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05-10-2012, 12:24 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Jack Adams candidate, #1 seed in the east, furthest point in the playoffs in 15 years (and still not done) - yea, the guy should be ousted because he benched a kid who is getting worse as the playoffs go on.

You're completely out to lunch on this one - try finding another scapegoat.
do people seriously still think this coach is the reason we were #1 seed? guys buy into a lot of systems. a lot of teams played like crap this season. the regular season has NOTHING to do with playoffs. the coach doesn't get anywhere without his team. this coach doesn't know how to do anything.

FURTHEST POINT IN 15 YEARS IS BAD. do you not get this? he hasn't been able to do it til now-- CLEARLY he has a lot less to do with this team's success than the players.

he benched an offensively dominant kid who has shown more in his first 6 games than most of the team did that series. won us 2/6 of his first games. makes ONE mistake and he's a pariah? fans like you make me sick. tortorella has his good points, but this guy is NOT the reason we're where we are. luck and effort are.

and he def doesn't deserve to win jack adams. both the coach of the blues and the coach of the sens deserve it a LOT more than him.

and he's ousted because he's been an idiot and left us with a struggling pp since he got here-- not because he benched ONE KID. he's had trouble matching lines his whole career. he's inconsistent. he's basically a short fused whiny little kid who can't accept responsibility/adapt to a situation. he's a joke. idk why you'd defend him unless you HONESTLY believe he's the reason that we are where we are--and if that's the case then i applaud you. you are truly an idiot. good day.

at least we got richards out of him.

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05-10-2012, 12:28 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by n_a_c View Post
Playing limited minutes on the fourth line he has had little opportunity to show he is playing with intensity and without mistakes.
THIS. How can anybody prove themselves to be top 6 players when playing with the likes of mike rupp and john mitchell? (or boyle/prust/fedotenko for the matter of our other guys who are getting less minutes than they should/not progressing)

stepan playing with no other skilled player isn't going to solo the second line. boyle playing on the second line is not going to make any of the other guys better. stepan played REALLY WELL with gaborik. he played REALLY WELL with kreider. he didn't play really well with fedotenko and prust. should we be surprised? is there some kind of a pattern?!?!

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05-10-2012, 12:42 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Just another reason to complain about overrated Torts.
Give the kid full 2nd line minutes (20+), you idiot!
slow down. i never said anything about giving him 20+ minutes. he was doing fine with 8-10. Torts just needs to put him with better guys and give him a little more ice time. 2-3 more shifts wouldn't hurt.

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05-10-2012, 12:51 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
do people seriously still think this coach is the reason we were #1 seed? guys buy into a lot of systems. a lot of teams played like crap this season. the regular season has NOTHING to do with playoffs. the coach doesn't get anywhere without his team. this coach doesn't know how to do anything.

FURTHEST POINT IN 15 YEARS IS BAD. do you not get this? he hasn't been able to do it til now-- CLEARLY he has a lot less to do with this team's success than the players.

he benched an offensively dominant kid who has shown more in his first 6 games than most of the team did that series. won us 2/6 of his first games. makes ONE mistake and he's a pariah? fans like you make me sick. tortorella has his good points, but this guy is NOT the reason we're where we are. luck and effort are.

and he def doesn't deserve to win jack adams. both the coach of the blues and the coach of the sens deserve it a LOT more than him.

and he's ousted because he's been an idiot and left us with a struggling pp since he got here-- not because he benched ONE KID. he's had trouble matching lines his whole career. he's inconsistent. he's basically a short fused whiny little kid who can't accept responsibility/adapt to a situation. he's a joke. idk why you'd defend him unless you HONESTLY believe he's the reason that we are where we are--and if that's the case then i applaud you. you are truly an idiot. good day.

at least we got richards out of him.
I honestly get sad an embarassed when I see there are Ranger fans out there that actually think like this. Especially when youre using the natural progression of a 21 year old kid as the source of some whiny/ill-informed rant against a coach who has earned knowledgable fans respect this season.

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05-10-2012, 01:21 PM
  #805
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Let me preface this by saying I am biased in favor of Kreider. At the same time, I have no axe to grind with Tortorella. I actually like him.

I have no problem with sending a message to Kreider. He made a bad play (albeit on a goal Lundqvist would tell you he'd like to have back). Why not send the message to him in that particular game and then see how he responds rather than simply sending him a multi-game message when you might need him in a game seven and/or going forward in the playoffs? Now, by burying him for an extended period of time, there's no telling how he'll react if given the call again. He very well might play timid and too defensive minded...which negates all the skills he brings to the table.

Furthermore, what has someone like Carl Hagelin (also a rookie) done to deserve his heavy, top six minutes in the playoffs? He has no goals and just one point in 10 games. His biggest contribution was taking a stick to the face in game five...

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05-10-2012, 01:22 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Johnnyduke View Post
Let me preface this by saying I am biased in favor of Kreider. At the same time, I have no axe to grind with Tortorella. I actually like him.

I have no problem with sending a message to Kreider. He made a bad play (albeit on a goal Lundqvist would tell you he'd like to have back). Why not send the message to him in that particular game and then see how he responds rather than simply sending him a multi-game message when you might need him in a game seven and/or going forward in the playoffs? Now, by burying him for an extended period of time, there's no telling how he'll react if given the call again. He very well might play timid and too defensive minded...which negates all the skills he brings to the table.

Furthermore, what has someone like Carl Hagelin (also a rookie) done to deserve his heavy, top six minutes in the playoffs? He has no goals and just one point in 10 games. His biggest contribution was taking a stick to the face in game five...
Hagelins been one of, if not the most consistent 2-way player we've had this entire series.

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05-10-2012, 01:26 PM
  #807
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And yet he still only has one point in 10 playoff games. At some point, you need to produce. You can't win 0-0.

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05-10-2012, 01:27 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Hagelins been one of, if not the most consistent 2-way player we've had this entire series.
Yep. If Richards and Gaborik could finish, Hagelin would be racking up the points. I can't even count how many times Hagelin has turned over a puck, gotten it, protected and dished it to one of them who is open only for them to flub it or miss the net.

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05-10-2012, 01:32 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I honestly get sad an embarassed when I see there are Ranger fans out there that actually think like this.
I thought he was kidding, but he did put so much effort into typing all those words...

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05-10-2012, 01:46 PM
  #810
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Be the best player on the Rangers for 5-6 games - Great
Make a couple mistakes, one where your goalie can't even make a routine save from a wrist shot from the blue line - Ice time limited to 5 minutes on 4th line
So lets just screw up this great prospect the way we screwed up other prospect like Malhotra.

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05-10-2012, 02:00 PM
  #811
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Way back before Kreider was even drafted there were a number of posters here that saw the potential this kid who was really, really raw had. Even now--a few years later Chris is the least developed player on this team and people should keep this in mind--especially now--coming straight out of college is a huge step--and I wouldn't worry Kreider should be just fine coming into next year's training camp--we've seen enough to know that he's just about a lock to make the team but he's green as green can be right now.

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05-10-2012, 02:22 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I honestly get sad an embarassed when I see there are Ranger fans out there that actually think like this. Especially when youre using the natural progression of a 21 year old kid as the source of some whiny/ill-informed rant against a coach who has earned knowledgable fans respect this season.
I'm embarrassed by people who think this coach is the reason this team is where it is. Hard work is. Torts is a joke. The majority of the league knows it. He's a good personality to the room, but the guy's strategies are some of the worst in the league. Basically all he has done to this team is throw them in front of shots and give them some motivation. No strategy, just pass pass pass til you give the puck away. Fans who can't look past the standings make me sick.

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05-10-2012, 02:24 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I honestly get sad an embarassed when I see there are Ranger fans out there that actually think like this. Especially when youre using the natural progression of a 21 year old kid as the source of some whiny/ill-informed rant against a coach who has earned knowledgable fans respect this season.
and didn't i point out that it's not about kreider? it's about a guy who's been here for years and hasn't improved a simple mistake (such as the pp) that has been here since he came in?

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05-10-2012, 02:30 PM
  #814
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When will people chill out about rookies on the 4th line? Torts has done it with EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR YOUNG PLAYERS and they've all turned out fine. People were screaming bloody murder about Stepan last year in the same respect.

Torts knows how to develop youth. It'll be fine.\

Quote:
I'm embarrassed by people who think this coach is the reason this team is where it is. Hard work is.
You really think Torts had nothing to do with creating that blue collar environment? Do you remember the Rangers teams pre-lockout? Torts molded this team into what it is. He's held everyone accountable and its' created the culture in that locker-room.

Quote:
Fans who can't look past the standings make me sick.
Fans who have no ****ing clue what they're talking about make me sick. If we had another coach and our team played a lazy, non-hard working game, you'd be calling for his head too.

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05-10-2012, 03:12 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
I'm embarrassed by people who think this coach is the reason this team is where it is. Hard work is. Torts is a joke. The majority of the league knows it. He's a good personality to the room, but the guy's strategies are some of the worst in the league. Basically all he has done to this team is throw them in front of shots and give them some motivation. No strategy, just pass pass pass til you give the puck away. Fans who can't look past the standings make me sick.
Contradiction much???

Hes employing the strategy that most would employ for a team that severely lacks offensive creativity outside of Richards.

Why dont you tell us the strategy you would employ. I'd actually LOVE to hear this one.

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05-10-2012, 03:14 PM
  #816
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AN interesting stat: NYR are 5-1 in the PO's when Kreider gets double digits TOI. 1-4 when in the single digits.

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05-10-2012, 03:20 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
and didn't i point out that it's not about kreider? it's about a guy who's been here for years and hasn't improved a simple mistake (such as the pp) that has been here since he came in?
If improving a PP were so simple, why doesn't every team in the league have a great PP?

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05-10-2012, 03:21 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
AN interesting stat: NYR are 5-1 in the PO's when Kreider gets double digits TOI. 1-4 when in the single digits.
Not enough of a sample size to be considered a stat. What you're doing is cherry-picking.

Kreider's game has dipped. Its to be expected when the adrenaline level dies down and a young kid settles into the grind of the playoffs. Hes a liability out there in the defensive zone, and thats to be expected at his age. Im happy he had a 2 or 3 game stretch where he looked great, but it seems to have also increased the already inflated expectations of him.

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05-10-2012, 03:23 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not enough of a sample size to be considered a stat. What you're doing is cherry-picking.

Kreider's game has dipped. Its to be expected when the adrenaline level dies down and a young kid settles into the grind of the playoffs. Hes a liability out there in the defensive zone, and thats to be expected at his age. Im happy he had a 2 or 3 game stretch where he looked great, but it seems to have also increased the already inflated expectations of him.
Don't feel like posting what I've just read in the Stepan thread, so here it is:


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Originally Posted by MDL8981 View Post
I get that Kreider has flaws in his defensive game...we all knew this would be the case. But if you look at our 13 playoff games so far, the games we've looked the best are when Kreider was getting top 6 minutes. Because it allowed us to actually have two dangerous lines. Now that the Kreider-Steps-Cally line has been broken up, and Kreider is suffering playing 5 shifts a game with Mitchell and Rupp....we're down to one dangerous line. This makes life so easy for Hunter to matchup with the Richards line. He has nothing else to worry about. Throw his checking line against Richards, shut them down, and we're in good shape. Any idiot can matchup w that. Heck, Ottawa was able to do the same things. Everything changed in Game 6 when he put Kreider with Steps and Cally...they clicked....all of a sudden we have two top lines. Kreider makes things happen with his speed for that line ala what Hags does for the top line. It was a domino effect because it also allowed the top line to get some shifts away from the opposition's top checking line. Everyone benefitted from this.

There is no doubt in my mind that we lose to 6 in Ottawa if Kreider isnt given heavy minutes with Steps and Cally. Kreider made things happen, and Stepan's game blossomed as soon as he was given wingers who can actually do things offensively.

Kreider was the difference in that series. So now with Kreider as a pariah, we're back to where we were pre-Game 6 Ottawa. One big line. Three lines of nothing. Stepan lost playing with players who havent scored goals since the dinosaurs were roaming Earth and have the passing skills of a Pee Wee team.

NYR are 5-1 in the PO's when Kreider gets double digits TOI. 1-4 when in the single digits. Some stats like this make no sense or are a victim of small sample size. If you watch this team, you'll realize that stat is as accurate as can be.

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05-10-2012, 03:24 PM
  #820
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If improving a PP were so simple, why doesn't every team in the league have a great PP?
The ones that do have one word in common: creativity. This team severely lacks it - the addition of Richards gave the squad at least an ounce of it, but its not enough.

You cant teach it - so I think its ridiculous Tortorella gets serious flack for this, just like Renney did as well.

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05-10-2012, 03:45 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The ones that do have one word in common: creativity. This team severely lacks it - the addition of Richards gave the squad at least an ounce of it, but its not enough.

You cant teach it - so I think its ridiculous Tortorella gets serious flack for this, just like Renney did as well.
Oh, absolutely. I find it mind-boggling when people don't recognize this. The PP is such an instinctual thing. You put your talented players out there and let them do things to take advantage of the extra space. Sure you can remind them that they need to shoot and set up screens when they have the chance, and make basic decisions like whether to run an umbrella or whatever, but it comes down to skill/creativity and execution. Not a whole lot the coach can do when the players just aren't getting it done.

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05-10-2012, 05:00 PM
  #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
do people seriously still think this coach is the reason we were #1 seed? guys buy into a lot of systems. a lot of teams played like crap this season. the regular season has NOTHING to do with playoffs. the coach doesn't get anywhere without his team. this coach doesn't know how to do anything.
Yes. He is the reason. This team is playing above its skill level, and has all season. The coach is directly responsible for that.

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05-10-2012, 05:14 PM
  #823
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Yes. He is the reason. This team is playing above its skill level, and has all season. The coach is directly responsible for that.
i mean... since we got 1st seed every season that torts coached here.. you must be right.

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05-10-2012, 05:32 PM
  #824
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i mean... since we got 1st seed every season that torts coached here.. you must be right.
Because a coach can instantly change culture, and players will instantly understand and buy into a system without needing any time for adjustment? So coaches are miracle workers? I never knew that!

That makes me wonder why Scotty Bowman's teams were not the #1 seed every year. They must have lacked the necessary skill players to make that happen.

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05-10-2012, 05:37 PM
  #825
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It's pretty simple.

Game seven is going to come down to a few things.

1- Score first.
2- Stay out of the box
3- Win battles for the puck
4- Take advantage of mistakes
5- Out skate the opponent

Kreider needs to get decent ice in game seven the way he did in games six and seven against Ottawa. We need the speed to get behind their defenders and get quality shots on Holtby.

Hagelin. Richards. Gaborik
Kreider. Stepan. Callahan

We CAN NOT allow the Capitals speed to start dictating the pace of this game. WE need to be the ones to push the pace out of the gate.

Plain and simple. Kreider needs to play.

Chimera, Semin, Liach, Ovechkin...we can't get into a track meet unless we put our weapons on the ice to match.

We have home ice. We have last change. We can match up against Ovechkin and Backstrom with McDonagh, Girardi, Boyle, Fedotenko...free up the Richards line and get the Kreider Stepan Callahan back together.

We need to create mismatches. Speed. Skill. Energy.

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