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General Talk '12 — Canada (Part II)

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05-10-2012, 04:25 PM
  #351
JackSlater
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Uhoh I've drawn the Finns to the thread. I will try to tread lightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mara View Post
I wouldn't call it a fluke. The first game was very even, and could have ended both ways, ending in SO for Finland. In the second game Finland was clearly better as a team for most of the game, and completely shut down the Russian stars. It proves that Finland was the better team in that tournament.
I remember that Finland was better in the final game (I don't remember the first) and I was cheering for them. Finland may have played better in that tournament too. Does not mean that they were the best team, or that they were better than Russia. The sample size was very, very small. Far to small to say that anything was proven. It does not mean that Finland was not the deserving winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Oracle View Post
A 7-game series still doesn't mean that the team which looks better on paper will win 100% of the time. Upsets happen in the Stanley Cup playoffs, too.
Yep, you're right. Not only does the better team on paper not always win a series, but the better team does not always win a series either. Still, the huge disparity in talent between that Finnish team and a few other teams at that tournament would make them very, very unlikely to win if it was a similar format to the Stanley Cup playoffs (which would be a better indicator of what team is better). They seemed to come together as a team much better than the other teams last year, and that advantage would likely be gone over a larger sample size. You are right that it was an upset, and there is a reason for that. The Oilers could beat the Bruins in a single elimination tournament, or even a seven game series, but they still would not be a better team.

Also, am I right to assume that Russell will play tomorrow?

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05-10-2012, 04:30 PM
  #352
Novak Djokovic
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Does anyone know why IIHF tournaments aren't held in Canada? (Besides 2008)

I mean, looking at the attendance in Europe, I can guarantee that Canada would have higher attendance despite playoff hockey.... and most Canadian teams don't go too far anyways.

EDIT: I guess none of the NHL arenas can commit to them, but other arenas should be available.

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05-10-2012, 04:34 PM
  #353
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Any word on Burrows potential return to the roster tomorrow?

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05-10-2012, 04:41 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
Does anyone know why IIHF tournaments aren't held in Canada? (Besides 2008)

I mean, looking at the attendance in Europe, I can guarantee that Canada would have higher attendance despite playoff hockey.... and most Canadian teams don't go too far anyways.

EDIT: I guess none of the NHL arenas can commit to them, but other arenas should be available.
Well you could have Hamilton, Quebec, and Saskatoon all commit no worries. All have 15,000 person arenas.

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05-10-2012, 04:43 PM
  #355
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Canada has a great roster usually (like this year also), but I don't really think that whether it's NHL playoffs ongoing or not would make that big a difference.

There are always players that are not coming (do to contract issues, injuries, personal issues, fatigue or whatever) and of course it matters also where the games are held. I take motivated not so skilled guy over the best player on the world which doesn't give a crap. Forcing to come is not the way to go, since if you don't want to play, some other player does.
Even if NHL playoffs would have ended there is always guys which are not going.

That being said, I love to see the big names competing so of course I would like that the best possible team is playing. Canada has the widest pool to take players from so it's hampered the least of all countries due to players not coming.

What comes to "fluke win", it's hardly ever that. Of course you need some luck, but that's life and usually you create your own.

Finns don't have that much of goal scoring talent (if not counting Selänne) when it comes to best players. Luckily It's a team sport and not a Talent contest. We had good enough players last year to win (and it shows that it's more important to be creative player in little lesser league (KHL) than third-fourth line guy in the NHL). Since about half of our players in the NHL are goalies .

What comes to attendance, it's direct correlation of ticket prices. Six-seven years ago it was about 60 euros for two tickets for preliminary round game Canada-Sweden, not it costs about 100 euros/person to see some France-Canada game.

It shows that there were about 3000 extra tickets sold against France when the price was better (160 euros/four seats for families) after ticket prices where critisized heavily.

Helluwa game tomorrow, hoping for a good fight and that Canada players wake up to give some decent resistance .


Last edited by weetabix: 05-10-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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05-10-2012, 04:48 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
Does anyone know why IIHF tournaments aren't held in Canada? (Besides 2008)

I mean, looking at the attendance in Europe, I can guarantee that Canada would have higher attendance despite playoff hockey.... and most Canadian teams don't go too far anyways.

EDIT: I guess none of the NHL arenas can commit to them, but other arenas should be available.
Regardless of arena availability, you need people and sponsors who are committed to organizing and promoting the tournament. At this time of year, folks in Canada care more about things like the Stanley Cup and Memorial Cup.

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05-10-2012, 04:51 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian452 View Post
Regardless of arena availability, you need people and sponsors who are committed to organizing and promoting the tournament. At this time of year, folks in Canada care more about things like the Stanley Cup and Memorial Cup.
Yes and it's not like Canada could hold it often, usually a country gets it every 10 years or so if they apply... That's what I think at least, cba to check anywhere. Last time Finland had it was 2003 etc.

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05-10-2012, 05:09 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
Kris Russell ?? never hear of him, also really never heard of Quincy till this year...What, they couldn't invite Coburn ? wtf ????
2 years a go he was one of the 3 players of the tournament for Canada. Excells on the big ice!

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05-10-2012, 05:40 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Well you could have Hamilton, Quebec, and Saskatoon all commit no worries. All have 15,000 person arenas.
CHL playoffs tie up arenas too.

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05-10-2012, 05:51 PM
  #360
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Serbian Power
In the east there is maybe 4 or 5 arenas that could host whc in the west maybe 3.

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05-10-2012, 06:07 PM
  #361
Baba Booey
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The ACC is always open this time of year.

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05-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #362
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Shutout for Lehtonen tomorrow!! But really FIN-CAN will be a sick game. Canada can get eliminated completely if they don't get points from this game and Finland will secure group #1 pretty much if they take 3 points.

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05-10-2012, 07:01 PM
  #363
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I wish Stamkos suited up to light the lamp more often than what we've been witnessing.

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05-10-2012, 07:05 PM
  #364
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How has Tavares looked for those who have been watching? who are his line mates?

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05-10-2012, 07:50 PM
  #365
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I think Finland takes this. I would be happy if Canada could manage to get a point.

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05-10-2012, 07:54 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
How has Tavares looked for those who have been watching? who are his line mates?
IIRC, he's been playing with Eberle and Benn.

I'd say he's been Canada's best forward.

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05-10-2012, 08:02 PM
  #367
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJG View Post
IIRC, he's been playing with Eberle and Benn.

I'd say he's been Canada's best forward.
I thought it was Eberle and Skinner. I agree on the best forward thing though. Also, he and Eberle are pretty dynamic together.

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05-10-2012, 09:19 PM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I thought it was Eberle and Skinner. I agree on the best forward thing though. Also, he and Eberle are pretty dynamic together.
Skinner and Sharp were JT's initial wingers. Eberle later replaced Sharp on his line. It's a really good line too. Skinner and Tavares seem to have really good chemistry that's probably carried over from last year's WC. Eberle and Tavares seem to get eachother too. They were both standouts in the 2008 WJC.

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05-10-2012, 09:25 PM
  #369
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Ok, now that we have 9 D's, who sits out, obviously Murry, but who else?

We can only dress 20 skaters + 2 goalies: 13+7+2 correct?

If burrows does not play i can see them dressing 8 D's..but if Burrows plays, which D sits ?

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05-10-2012, 09:40 PM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
Ok, now that we have 9 D's, who sits out, obviously Murry, but who else?

We can only dress 20 skaters + 2 goalies: 13+7+2 correct?

If burrows does not play i can see them dressing 8 D's..but if Burrows plays, which D sits ?
Keith
Bouwmeester
Phaneuf
Russell
Quincey
Methot
Schenn
Murray

There are 8 defencemen with Subban and Vlasic out, and very likely Murray sits.

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05-10-2012, 09:46 PM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Keith
Bouwmeester
Phaneuf
Russell
Quincey
Methot
Schenn
Murray

There are 8 defencemen with Subban and Vlasic out, and very likely Murray sits.
Thanks...
You rate Quincey and Russel over Methot and Schenn? I have not seen Quincey or Russell play...or at least never stood out before (I follow WJC and WC and never heard of this guy...lol)

So, what you are saying is that our Defense is stronger than it was 1 week ago...

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05-10-2012, 09:59 PM
  #372
JackSlater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
Thanks...
You rate Quincey and Russel over Methot and Schenn? I have not seen Quincey or Russell play...or at least never stood out before (I follow WJC and WC and never heard of this guy...lol)

So, what you are saying is that our Defense is stronger than it was 1 week ago...
Quincey and Methot is pretty much a toss up to me, Methot is better defensively and Quincey is better offensively, but both are above Schenn for the time being. Russell has a good international pedigree, and I am surprised that you wouldn't remember him at least from the WJC, where he ran the Canadian powerplay one year.

Overall the defence is stronger than a week ago when Murray had to play. Vlasic would be preferable to Quincey, and probably Russell too, but as a unit things have improved.

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05-10-2012, 10:18 PM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Quincey and Methot is pretty much a toss up to me, Methot is better defensively and Quincey is better offensively, but both are above Schenn for the time being. Russell has a good international pedigree, and I am surprised that you wouldn't remember him at least from the WJC, where he ran the Canadian powerplay one year.

Overall the defence is stronger than a week ago when Murray had to play. Vlasic would be preferable to Quincey, and probably Russell too, but as a unit things have improved.
Ok fair...

Now

Lets compare last years D with this years D

2 D Luke Schenn Toronto Maple Leafs NHL
3 D Dion Phaneuf Toronto Maple Leafs NHL
7 D Mario Scalzo Adler Mannheim DEL
8 D Brent Burns San Jose Sharks NHL
27 D Alex Pietrangelo St. Louis Blues NHL
33 D Marc Methot Columbus Blue Jackets NHL

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Old
05-10-2012, 10:25 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
Ok fair...

Now

Lets compare last years D with this years D

2 D Luke Schenn Toronto Maple Leafs NHL
3 D Dion Phaneuf Toronto Maple Leafs NHL
7 D Mario Scalzo Adler Mannheim DEL
8 D Brent Burns San Jose Sharks NHL
27 D Alex Pietrangelo St. Louis Blues NHL
33 D Marc Methot Columbus Blue Jackets NHL
Keith/Pietrangelo
Bouwmeester
Phaneuf/Burns
Russell
Quincey/Method
Schenn
Murray/Scalzo


This year is 1 man better (Russell) ?? Drop Scalzo for Russell...

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Old
05-11-2012, 01:17 AM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
The Oilers could beat the Bruins in a single elimination tournament, or even a seven game series, but they still would not be a better team.
Shall I undestand this the way Finland is best no matter what, even if they lose?

Imo thats stupid. Paper does not weight a crap, its how they play as a team. If the team wins best of 7 playoff series clearly, its probably played better in the series. Just having better players will not automaticly make better team. Canadians should know that hockey is a team game, not 20 singularities skating around. You need to have high enough skill level but after that the games are not decided on the paper.

Its not like there's a monster drop between Canada and Finland tonight again, you just respect your players more and may not know a crap about players like Immonen, Granlund, Vehanen (backup probably tonight), Pihlström or Väänänen and then are likely to underrate them. Also sometimes players NHL career just wont kick for some reason , but they still can be on the par. They just dont get their best out of them when they get their chance in the NHL. It still doesnt every time mean they dont have the talent to be there.


Last edited by QnebO: 05-11-2012 at 01:25 AM.
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