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Old
05-10-2012, 10:54 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
You're giving us two pieces that we covet, but the value just isn't there. If were moving Kesler we'd want both Stepan and Staal, the rest doesn't equal Edler. Unless NYR is willing to do something like that I dont see it working.
We can be real nice and throw in Dubinsky

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05-10-2012, 10:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier View Post
He'd be playing with Raymond/Higgins and Booth. Not much better than Stepan's regular linemates.

Would it be straight up or a + from either side?
Straigth up would probably be fair value but seeing how Callahan is captain of New York Rangers he would require something additional to pry him out of New York.

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05-10-2012, 10:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Due to an injury our idiot coaches and management decided he was recovered "enough" from. Good bye solid play, secondary scoring and defensive/physical play. It's the same way that an injury that wasn't dealt with, like Gaborik with Minnesota, can ruin a series of seasons. 26 games in 3 seasons, all different, ranging from a separated shoulder to a concussion to a groin pull, doesn't scream "injury prone", and after being labelled "Glass-orik", he seems to be shouldering the load well. I have no doubt Kesler will bounce back if given the time to recover properly this time.

For the record, he still played with the Sedins this year as well.

One bargain year of Stepan, before a presumed raise, versus what Kesler will do for us for the length of his for the remainder. Stepan will be good, absolutely no doubt, but we want to win now, now in 5 or 3 or even the year after next.

I am glad you don't, because Vancouver will not either.
The Rangers want to win just as much as Vancouver, they were the #1 seed like Vancouver and Stepan provided much needed secondary scoring, playmaking ability and great play for stretches throughout the season. He was the #1 center with Gaborik and and Anisimov for a large part of the season. He has only improved tremendously since his first year in the NHL and is a core member of the Rangers. I'm not saying Kesler is a downgrade, but why fix something that isn't broken? The Rangers do not need a shakeup at center position, if anything they need to add to it.

Gaborik is legitimately made from glass. I think Kesler's injuries will continue to come through due to his frame and intense physical play over the years.

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05-10-2012, 11:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Canucks wont move Edler. He, along with Bieksa, are our only offensive d-men. There was a noticeable lack of offensive talent on the back end when Ehrhoff left, so trading Edler will be horrific.


Is Girardi pretty much untouchable? I think the Rangers would have to trade him if they want Kesler.
Staal is good and all, but he's left handed and plays on the left side. The Canucks need a right handed guy to play with Edler, preferably someone who is good defensively.

I'm thinking of a deal based around Stepan, Dubinsky, and Girardi for Kesler, Raymond, M.A. Gragnani, and a couple of prospects/picks*. (maybe a 1st and a decent prospect)

*And the Canucks agree to not go after Justin Schultz.
The Rangers trade a top pairing defenseman, a 2nd line center with tremendous potential and a 2nd-3rd line tweener for a 2nd line center, a project defenseman and a softer 2nd-3rd line tweener?

Sign me up.

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05-10-2012, 11:02 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The Rangers trade a top pairing defenseman, a 2nd line center with tremendous potential and a 2nd-3rd line tweener for a 2nd line center, a project defenseman and a softer 2nd-3rd line tweener?

Sign me up.
Kesler is more than just a 2nd line center, and I said that the Canucks would add prospects/picks that aren't garbage. (and that we'd let Justin Schultz sign with you guys )

We could also throw in future hall of famer Keith Ballard.

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05-10-2012, 11:03 PM
  #31
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What do you guys want for just Dubinsky? What are your needs?

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05-10-2012, 11:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
What do you guys want for just Dubinsky? What are your needs?
Honestly, the Canucks shouldn't trade more than Raymond and a later pick/"meh" prospect.
Both are struggling, but Dubinsky has a pretty sizable cap hit.

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05-10-2012, 11:06 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Kesler is more than just a 2nd line center, and I said that the Canucks would add prospects/picks that aren't garbage. (and that we'd let Justin Schultz sign with you guys )

We could also throw in future hall of famer Keith Ballard.
Kesler is more than just a 2nd line center as he provides grit and intangibles, but these playoffs have proven that the Rangers need more talent in their lineup. I just feel moving Stepan takes away from something the team desperately lacks in. I think adding in Girardi is a back-breaker since he is also an integral part of the team.

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05-10-2012, 11:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
What do you guys want for just Dubinsky? What are your needs?
I'm guessing the Rangers would like an NHL player on a cheap deal along with a draft pick. Perhaps just a cap clearing move to make room for Parise or Nash.

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05-10-2012, 11:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Honestly, the Canucks shouldn't trade more than Raymond and a later pick/"meh" prospect.
Both are struggling, but Dubinsky has a pretty sizable cap hit.
Dubinsky is way better and he will most likely get out of the slump and return to his old former self. 20 goal, 40-45 point player with good physicality. So yeah... no thanks. We already got speedy wingers that play better than Raymond.

Edit: Potential trade (for capreasons, value is off). Lapierre + mid prospect + 2nd/3rd for Dubinsky. Lapierre isn't exactly someone who holds great value. In return you get a young gritty player. Responsible in his own end and is good for 20+20 (just had a down year, look up Gaborik last year and this year for another example of an underperforming Rangers fwd).


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05-10-2012, 11:17 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Dubinsky is way better and he will most likely get out of the slump and return to his old former self. 20 goal, 40-45 point player with good physicality. So yeah... no thanks. We already got speedy wingers that play better than Raymond.
And if he doesn't break out of his slump? You got yourself a $4,200,000 2nd-3rd line tweener for the next three seasons.
Raymond is an RFA, and can be signed for less than $2.75 mil per year.

And Dubinsky isn't "way better" than Raymond. When Dubi is playing well, he is a 2nd liner. When Raymond is playing well, he is a 2nd liner.

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05-10-2012, 11:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
And if he doesn't break out of his slump? You got yourself a $4,200,000 2nd-3rd line tweener for the next three seasons.
Raymond is an RFA, and can be signed for less than $2.75 mil per year.

And Dubinsky isn't "way better" than Raymond. When Dubi is playing well, he is a 2nd liner. When Raymond is playing well, he is a 2nd liner.
Raymond is a 2nd liner 2 games a season basically. He's got speed that's it tbh. I like him though, but Dubi is worth more and is better. Dubinsky is a solid 2nd liner while Raymond is a incosistent 3rd liner/2nd line tweener on rare occasions (has always been).

If you don't want to pay up for Dubi, fine . No rush to trade him. It's not like he's Scott Gomez, and we got enough capspace. And if we needed to offload him for a big UFA signing (due to capreasons) we would get a little bit more than Raymond. Even though Dubi's value is quite low it's still higher than Raymond's.

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Old
05-10-2012, 11:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
To : Ryan Kesler + Alexander Edler




To : Derek Stepan + Marc Staal + 2012 1st + Christian Thomas/Jesper Fasth

Fair value?


Ryan Kesler would be an ideal player for Tortorella and New York Rangers while Edler would provide a scoring touch from the point which is well needed.

Stepan is a skilled young player who would thrive in a more offensive system than the Rangers. Staal is a premier shutdown D on a great contract. Thomas is a mid prospect. High reward/bust potential. Could turn out to be a great sniper or a bust. Fasth is a real speedy winger that plays for HV71 in Sweden (info/stats: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10967). I myself would personally love to see Fasth in Rangers but you gotta give to get. He has great potential with his speed and hockeysense. He has evolved alot this year. A bad injury (broken ankle) stopped him from playing a full season in the SEL this year. But man did he play good when he did play. Playing with men as a young kid. Real impressive. He even got called up to the national team.

Edler is a RFA and Kesler is on a good deal. Canucks lower their caphit with Staal and Stepan (still on his ELC). With the money the save on the deal they can spend it on some UFA's or whatever they feel like.
Change Staal to McDonagh or the prospect to Kreider and I would consider it.

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05-10-2012, 11:22 PM
  #39
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Change Staal to McDonagh or the prospect to Kreider and I would consider it.
are you trying to pull a Sather on us?

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05-10-2012, 11:35 PM
  #40
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For arguments sake I'd say swap the late 1st and mediocre prospect to an asset that has real value to Vancouver, Del Zotto or Anisimov would probably be best, and it could be doable. The Rangers have their assets spread out a bit better than the Canucks so a 2 for 3 could mke some sense.

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05-11-2012, 12:17 AM
  #41
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There isnt a player on the Rangers I'd trade Kesler for. Stepan, Callahan and Kreider are getting ridiculously overrated these playoffs when the real reason that the Rangers are even a playoff team is Lundqvist. They'd probably be a bottom 10 team without him.

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05-11-2012, 12:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
are you trying to pull a Sather on us?
Well a late 1st and a B prospect won't make up the difference between Kesler and Stepan for the Canucks.

We are in a win now mode. so why would we downgrade at center significantly for 2 guys that won't help our team for at least 2 years if not longer or ever?

Add to that Edler for Staal at best is a lateral move but doesn't fit the Canucks needs as Edler is our top offensive provider from the back end.

To get us to give up the 2 best players in the deal, your going to have to add a lot more than a late 1st and Thomas

If you see that as good value, I'll trade u Raymond, Ballard, Canucks 1st, and Anton Rodin for Del Zotto and Dubinsky

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05-11-2012, 12:41 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
There isnt a player on the Rangers I'd trade Kesler for. Stepan, Callahan and Kreider are getting ridiculously overrated these playoffs when the real reason that the Rangers are even a playoff team is Lundqvist. They'd probably be a bottom 10 team without him.
Yeah that argument never gets old. Year after year. Our young team is finally maturing and getting better with age (youngest team in the league? or oldest D just turned 28 for instance) so it's no wonder it has taken us years to develop...

And you sound bitter btw. We're still in the playoffs, where are you guys?

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05-11-2012, 01:22 AM
  #44
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05-11-2012, 01:38 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The Rangers trade a top pairing defenseman, a 2nd line center with tremendous potential and a 2nd-3rd line tweener for a 2nd line center, a project defenseman and a softer 2nd-3rd line tweener?

Sign me up.
My god, the quote you quote didn't come up and I thought you called Edler a project defensemen. Was ready to unleash my rage, phew


Kesler had an offseason so I can see most of HF undervaluing and downplaying his capabilities. Kesler is still a top notch center and just because he had a bad year last year doesn't mean that he'll always be the same player he was last season. Edler, like Kesler, had a poor playoff showing (his worst I have EVER seen and he's my favourite player). Marc Staal on the other hand has played like preconcussion Staal so his value is similar to Edlers, but the Canucks covet defensemen like Edler that are more offensively capable (not taking anything away from Staal of course).

I don't see these 2 team trading unless Canucks want to take a shot at Dubinsky and even then, his value is super low right now and it may not be in Sather's best interest to trade him.

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05-11-2012, 01:51 AM
  #46
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Change Thomas to Kreider and switch Staal for Girardi and it's entertaining.

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05-11-2012, 01:54 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Yeah that argument never gets old. Year after year. Our young team is finally maturing and getting better with age (youngest team in the league? or oldest D just turned 28 for instance) so it's no wonder it has taken us years to develop...

And you sound bitter btw. We're still in the playoffs, where are you guys?
It's hard not to be a little bitter (not Torts after a loss bitter but still fustrated) but regardless after the Nashville series in last years playoff added with his selke and 40 goal season we will hold onto his good cap hit and wait our his injury. I understand that this playoffs he was not an impact player but his injury was much worse than most fans had expected. I completely get why a team would pass on Kesler because there is a risk for sure with his injury and general question regarding whether he can return to the player he was last season. As a Canucks fan, and I believe that most other nucks fans will agree, we are willing to take chance with Kesler's injury and believe that he can be the player that we saw last year. Kesler is not going anywhere but if he is, I believe we will look for a lateral move or upgrade offensively and be willing to add rather than a proposal such as this.

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05-11-2012, 08:00 AM
  #48
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As someone from an outsiders prospective, Kesler is one of the most overated players in the league. I don't see many Vancouver games but he was non exsistant in the playoffs this year. I can't speak for how the Nucks organization values him but I think that offer was pretty fair.

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05-11-2012, 08:28 AM
  #49
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I don't see many Vancouver games but he was non exsistant in the playoffs this year. I can't speak for how the Nucks organization values him but I think that offer was pretty fair.
A torn shoulder will do that to you.

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05-11-2012, 09:59 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
To : Ryan Kesler + Alexander Edler




To : Derek Stepan + Marc Staal + 2012 1st + Christian Thomas/Jesper Fasth

Fair value?


Ryan Kesler would be an ideal player for Tortorella and New York Rangers while Edler would provide a scoring touch from the point which is well needed.

Stepan is a skilled young player who would thrive in a more offensive system than the Rangers. Staal is a premier shutdown D on a great contract. Thomas is a mid prospect. High reward/bust potential. Could turn out to be a great sniper or a bust. Fasth is a real speedy winger that plays for HV71 in Sweden (info/stats: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10967). I myself would personally love to see Fasth in Rangers but you gotta give to get. He has great potential with his speed and hockeysense. He has evolved alot this year. A bad injury (broken ankle) stopped him from playing a full season in the SEL this year. But man did he play good when he did play. Playing with men as a young kid. Real impressive. He even got called up to the national team.

Edler is a RFA and Kesler is on a good deal. Canucks lower their caphit with Staal and Stepan (still on his ELC). With the money the save on the deal they can spend it on some UFA's or whatever they feel like.
I have in past suggested some variation of Stepan + for Kesler or Edler. I vote yes to the right variation on this theme, but no on this exact deal.

Need to keep Staal. All our upcoming D (McIlrath, Noreau, Ceresniak) are righty. NO lefties in the pipeline.

Also not so fast on Fasth.

Something with principals
Stepan + Girardi + small consideration
for
Keserl + Edler + small consideration

is what I think is a workable core.


Last edited by bernmeister: 05-11-2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason: typo
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