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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 13.0

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Old
05-11-2012, 10:22 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Like Grant said, if you like a guy, you take him.
true, but if you like a guy and you can get him 2 picks back, why not get another asset? If you could get your guy ( in this case it would be TT) and Colborne from Toronto for their pick to get your guy don't you do that?

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05-11-2012, 10:27 AM
  #327
Grant McCagg
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Would Giroux be a good comparable for TT?
I'll answer the last two questions in this post.

I've heard comparisons to Sakic and Kane from other scouts.


His hockey sense is off the charts and perhaps his most important intangible. He thinks the game better than everyone else and it's a trait that cannot be underestimated. He's also a very fluid skater with excellent agility a smooth natural stride. He has a great one-timer and a quick, accurate shot. His passing abilities are elite, and when he has the puck he controls play out there with his anticipation and vision.

I love Collberg too - one team's head scout called him his favourite player and it's hard not to agree - I think wherever he's drafted it will be too low. I have him in my top ten. There's also a possibility he becomes the best player from this draft.

In comparison to TT - Collberg can't control a game like TT can. On the Finnish PP it is TT that runs the show from the right hash marks. Collberg is more of a secondary guy on the Swedish PP...and he's a winger.

TT will be a top two center in the NHL, perhaps a first-line one. Colberg will likely be a first or second line winger. There is more value in the center - size and skill being equal. I think most scouts feel TT has more more offensive upside however.

Neither will be bruisers in the NHL so I wouldn't necessarily give Collberg much of an edge in that department - I do like his competitiveness though...he's always on the puck.

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05-11-2012, 10:35 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I'll answer the last two questions in this post.

I've heard comparisons to Sakic and Kane from other scouts.


His hockey sense is off the charts and perhaps his most important intangible. He thinks the game better than everyone else and it's a trait that cannot be underestimated. He's also a very fluid skater with excellent agility a smooth natural stride. He has a great one-timer and a quick, accurate shot. His passing abilities are elite, and when he has the puck he controls play out there with his anticipation and vision.

I love Collberg too - one team's head scout called him his favourite player and it's hard not to agree - I think wherever he's drafted it will be too low. I have him in my top ten. There's also a possibility he becomes the best player from this draft.

In comparison to TT - Collberg can't control a game like TT can. On the Finnish PP it is TT that runs the show from the right hash marks. Collberg is more of a secondary guy on the Swedish PP...and he's a winger.

TT will be a top two center in the NHL, perhaps a first-line one. Colberg will likely be a first or second line winger. There is more value in the center - size and skill being equal. I think most scouts feel TT has more more offensive upside however.

Neither will be bruisers in the NHL so I wouldn't necessarily give Collberg much of an edge in that department - I do like his competitiveness though...he's always on the puck.
So the pros and cons with him and Galchenyuk...

Galchenyuk +size -knee -missing a season +hockey sense, just not as good
TT -size no physical concerns ++ hockey sense a bit more creative with the puck

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05-11-2012, 10:36 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I think this draft in general is a real wildcard. It is anyone's guess who goes where in the top ten starting at number one. I keep hearing Edmonton will take Murray, but I'm not hearing that they will necessarily trade down to get him. Who knows..if they traded down with the Isles for example...who's to say Columbus wouldn't take Murray at number two? Or perhaps Columbus takes Dumba? They've never selected a franchise dman....I keep hearing Forsberg is their guy but sometimes teams put out false indicators.

You hear that Toronto likes Galchenyuk..and the way things may shape up he could be there at five....or he may go to the Habs at three. Heck he may go to Columbus at two.

There is tremendous intrigue already and we're still six weeks from the draft.

I think TT could go anywhere from third overall to eighth, but at the end of the day might be the best player in the draft. I think several players have that potential. I'm not 100 per cent convinced that Yakupov will be the best NHLer from this draft, it's by no means a certified lock. I think you'll find that's the case in most drafts...more often than not the first player chosen isn't the best player from that draft class when their careers are all said and done.
The most unpredictable and exciting draft day in like forever!

Are you going to be on air for the draft Grant or pretty boy camera hog Craig Button gets all the air time?

Watching Button's face when Olli Maatta goes Top 10 will be priceless.

Dreger: Craig, this guy was not in your Top 60, yet we just saw him go 9th overall, how do you explain that kind of disparity?

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05-11-2012, 10:41 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
true, but if you like a guy and you can get him 2 picks back, why not get another asset? If you could get your guy ( in this case it would be TT) and Colborne from Toronto for their pick to get your guy don't you do that?
Because if someone between those two picks takes your guy; you will regret the move.

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05-11-2012, 10:47 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post

His hockey sense is off the charts and perhaps his most important intangible. He thinks the game better than everyone else and it's a trait that cannot be underestimated. .
Interesting. That's why I couldn't understand why Parise didn't go top 5. He obviously operated out there on the ice at an intuitive level, which goes beyond mere anticipation. Going way back, I saw the same thing with Robitaille and he didn't go to the 9th, knock on him was his skating but the puck always seemed to show up whereever he was on the ice. Don't know if TT is this kind of player as I haven't had an opportunity to see him, but you're right, "it's a trait that cannot be underestimated."

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05-11-2012, 10:47 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Because if someone between those two picks takes your guy; you will regret the move.
And Colborne is a big wuss.. :-0

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05-11-2012, 10:49 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
And Colborne is a big wuss.. :-0
Agreed. Surprised a "truculent" team in the Bruins drafted him and the king of truculence Burke traded for him.

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05-11-2012, 11:00 AM
  #334
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
The most unpredictable and exciting draft day in like forever!

Are you going to be on air for the draft Grant or pretty boy camera hog Craig Button gets all the air time?

Watching Button's face when Olli Maatta goes Top 10 will be priceless.

Dreger: Craig, this guy was not in your Top 60, yet we just saw him go 9th overall, how do you explain that kind of disparity?
I don't suspect I'll be on air for the draft. TSN has even given my profile writing task to Button for Bob's final rankings as they want him to be their "scouting figurehead". I don't have Button's credentials (even if I've scouted at the NHL level more recently) so I can't argue with the decision much. I will be writing some draft articles for TSN and doing some radio gigs. And no.... I don't think it's because I have a "face for radio."
I just finished helping McKeens with their rankings.... their list should be out soon.

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05-11-2012, 11:03 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I don't suspect I'll be on air for the draft. TSN has even given my profile writing task to Button for Bob's final rankings as they want him to be their "scouting figurehead". I don't have Button's credentials (even if I've scouted at the NHL level more recently) so I can't argue with the decision much. I will be writing some draft articles for TSN and doing some radio gigs. And no.... I don't think it's because I have a "face for radio."
I just finished helping McKeens with their rankings.... their list should be out soon.
Is Olli on your Top 60?

McKeens is the best ranking system in my opinion.

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05-11-2012, 11:03 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Because if someone between those two picks takes your guy; you will regret the move.
as I said, you'd need to know, or have a great idea of what the Isles wanted as you could know what T.O. wants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
And Colborne is a big wuss.. :-0
love it! I used him solely as an example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Agreed. Surprised a "truculent" team in the Bruins drafted him and the king of truculence Burke traded for him.
I see Grigorenko having similar "questions". Wavering intesity, big body that isn't overly physical. But he isn't anywhere as talented as Grigs.

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05-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #337
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
Is Olli on your Top 60?

McKeens is the best ranking system in my opinion.
Yes... Olli's in my top 15. :-)

Thanks for the compliment. I've co-published McKeen's rankings for the past six years. Tons of work for little return monetarily, but it's a passion, and I'm usually pretty happy with the rankings. We've been averaging 26 first rounders out of 30 and 50 out of 60 in the first two rounds, so you'll normally find McKeen's list to be a pretty good indication of who will go in the top 60. Mind you there are always surprises and this year will certainly not be an exception.

I should be making a few tweets concerning the draft over the next six weeks if anyone wants to follow me in the twitter world....just type my name in the search bar and it should come up. I don't promise anything earth shattering but you never know.....

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05-11-2012, 11:39 AM
  #338
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Waiting impatiently for the May issue, best value of any draft publication by far.

Feel free to pre-order it online: http://mckeenshockey.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1163902

Can I get 10% of all resulting sales?

BTW Grant there's a couple teams up for grabs in the mock draft, wanna join?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1120791

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05-11-2012, 11:42 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I had a dream we picked Galchenyuk at #2 (guess we traded up?).

I wouldn't read into it too much though, we picked a musician in the second round.
heh awesome

though fail if he only knows how to play "Vertigo"

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05-11-2012, 11:47 AM
  #340
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TT could go top five. But I would trade down if Timmins wants him. I am a big fan also. He has a certain clutchness about him.
This

If Timmons really wants TT then they should trade down to #5-6 to get him and another 2nd rounder maybe.....

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05-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #341
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this draft has me both stoked and confused . . .

First I wanted Galch, now I'm thinking TT and even Yakupov might be available . . . at least I don't want Grigorenko, that I'm pretty sure of

In any case, in TT (Timmins) I trust

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05-11-2012, 11:52 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I think this draft in general is a real wildcard. It is anyone's guess who goes where in the top ten starting at number one. I keep hearing Edmonton will take Murray, but I'm not hearing that they will necessarily trade down to get him. Who knows..if they traded down with the Isles for example...who's to say Columbus wouldn't take Murray at number two? Or perhaps Columbus takes Dumba? They've never selected a franchise dman....I keep hearing Forsberg is their guy but sometimes teams put out false indicators.

You hear that Toronto likes Galchenyuk..and the way things may shape up he could be there at five....or he may go to the Habs at three. Heck he may go to Columbus at two.

There is tremendous intrigue already and we're still six weeks from the draft.

I think TT could go anywhere from third overall to eighth, but at the end of the day might be the best player in the draft. I think several players have that potential. I'm not 100 per cent convinced that Yakupov will be the best NHLer from this draft, it's by no means a certified lock. I think you'll find that's the case in most drafts...more often than not the first player chosen isn't the best player from that draft class when their careers are all said and done.
Thank you. I know this draft can go anywhere, hell, there's even a possibility Murray goes #1 and columbus skips on the russian in Yakupov and he falls to us but that seems unlikely, just who knows. I think if edmonton goes off the board and does not select Yakupov it can be a surprising draft order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The whole draft is a crapshoot. When you're not even sure if the consensus number one pick is going first overall.. you can never know.

All we know is the top players are Yakupov, Murray, Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Dumba, TT, Grigorenko and Trouba.

After that, the tier down contains Faksa, Collberg, Maata etc.
I think the consensus is Yakupov but I see Edmonton looking hard at Murray because they don't want to be top heavy. Ya ya, you choose BPA available but they are really examining their options I bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
true, but if you like a guy and you can get him 2 picks back, why not get another asset? If you could get your guy ( in this case it would be TT) and Colborne from Toronto for their pick to get your guy don't you do that?
That's what I was thinking although pass on colborne, I'd rather habs(if they can get guy they want later) trade down and acquire another pick. If guy habs want is available at 5th then I'd trade down and ask for a 2nd rounder(which is like a late late 1st). Habs need to restock and while this isn't an amazing draft, I trust Timmins and feel he can get us some decent prospects just the same.

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05-11-2012, 11:53 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
This

If Timmons really wants TT then they should trade down to #5-6 to get him and another 2nd rounder maybe.....
I doubt they could get a 2nd rounder and in any case, generally, if you like the player you pick here where you know (or close to know) you can get him not take a crapshoot that he'll still be there 2 spots later. That can change as the draft develops

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05-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Because if someone between those two picks takes your guy; you will regret the move.
It's a big risk though - what if you're wrong? The Kings loved Hickey in '07 but (from what I heard) couldn't find a dance partner to trade down to get him. So they said to hell with it and picked him at #4 anyway. Not only did they miss out on Alzner, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, etc, they didn't even get any assets to offset picking a bust so high in the draft.

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05-11-2012, 12:18 PM
  #345
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this draft has me both stoked and confused . . .

First I wanted Galch, now I'm thinking TT and even Yakupov might be available . . . at least I don't want Grigorenko, that I'm pretty sure of

In any case, in TT (Timmins) I trust
If Timmins wants TT I think he can trade down. Maybe trade with Toronto and pick up an extra pick. I really want Gally we need an offensive center so we don't make Gomez errors anymore. With such a high pick it is time to grab a #1 center and Gally or Grig will be #1s. We are weak in that position and wingers you can find in 2nd and 3rd rounds easier. I like Louis Leblanc but he is not a #1 center, he could be a 2nd checking center but maybe he would be better on the wing anyway.

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05-11-2012, 12:33 PM
  #346
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If Timmins wants TT I think he can trade down. Maybe trade with Toronto and pick up an extra pick. I really want Gally we need an offensive center so we don't make Gomez errors anymore. With such a high pick it is time to grab a #1 center and Gally or Grig will be #1s. We are weak in that position and wingers you can find in 2nd and 3rd rounds easier. I like Louis Leblanc but he is not a #1 center, he could be a 2nd checking center but maybe he would be better on the wing anyway.
I don't see Grigorenko as a #1 center. Takes too many nights/shifts off and doesn't work well in traffic, which is what you get as a #1 center facing top lines.

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05-11-2012, 12:40 PM
  #347
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Really liking TT more and more. The heart and talent. I just like the idea he can be a big PP presence like Kovalev was.

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05-11-2012, 12:40 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I'll answer the last two questions in this post.

I've heard comparisons to Sakic and Kane from other scouts.


His hockey sense is off the charts and perhaps his most important intangible. He thinks the game better than everyone else and it's a trait that cannot be underestimated. He's also a very fluid skater with excellent agility a smooth natural stride. He has a great one-timer and a quick, accurate shot. His passing abilities are elite, and when he has the puck he controls play out there with his anticipation and vision.

I love Collberg too - one team's head scout called him his favourite player and it's hard not to agree - I think wherever he's drafted it will be too low. I have him in my top ten. There's also a possibility he becomes the best player from this draft.

In comparison to TT - Collberg can't control a game like TT can. On the Finnish PP it is TT that runs the show from the right hash marks. Collberg is more of a secondary guy on the Swedish PP...and he's a winger.

TT will be a top two center in the NHL, perhaps a first-line one. Colberg will likely be a first or second line winger. There is more value in the center - size and skill being equal. I think most scouts feel TT has more more offensive upside however.

Neither will be bruisers in the NHL so I wouldn't necessarily give Collberg much of an edge in that department - I do like his competitiveness though...he's always on the puck.
Sorry. But who is TT ? The Finish guy ranked in the bottom 15 of the 1 st round ?

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05-11-2012, 12:45 PM
  #349
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Sorry. But who is TT ? The Finish guy ranked in the bottom 15 of the 1 st round ?
Thats the one...

Teuvo Teravainen

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05-11-2012, 12:49 PM
  #350
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Yes... Olli's in my top 15. :-)

Thanks for the compliment. I've co-published McKeen's rankings for the past six years. Tons of work for little return monetarily, but it's a passion, and I'm usually pretty happy with the rankings. We've been averaging 26 first rounders out of 30 and 50 out of 60 in the first two rounds, so you'll normally find McKeen's list to be a pretty good indication of who will go in the top 60. Mind you there are always surprises and this year will certainly not be an exception.

I should be making a few tweets concerning the draft over the next six weeks if anyone wants to follow me in the twitter world....just type my name in the search bar and it should come up. I don't promise anything earth shattering but you never know.....
Consider yourself followed
Keep up the great work Grant

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