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*IF Letang Played the Whole Season

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Old
05-10-2012, 08:04 AM
  #26
IHWR
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Some of you guys are nuts and are just simply looking for an excuse to deny a 21 year old of a trophy that he's clearly earned. But it's not even your fault really, that's how the NHL Awards has treated it as well.

We might as well call the Norris the "Lifetime achievement award for Defensemen" then. Somehow Lidstrom won it last season as a MINUS player...if that doesn't tell you **** is messed up nothing will.

Karlsson had 3 less points than James Neal and his 50 even strength points puts him just a few back of the next closest defenseman's TOTALS.

But here's the issue. He's 21. That's why he won't win. "He'll be in the Norris trophy discussions for the next 10-15 years"...that's the rational people will use to deny him of this trophy and they'll hand it to someone who had a really good year and they feel more comfortable anointing the league's best at a position without fear of them becoming the next Jim Carrey punchline.

Only 2 defensmen in the history of the NHL put up more points than Karlsson at the same age (21). Bobby Orr and Paul Coffey.

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05-10-2012, 08:40 AM
  #27
Zirakzigil
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Letang would have been probably nominated but I doubt he wins it.

As for Karlsson. I think just like Green's season a couple of years ago this opens up the debate about needing an offensive and defensive award for defensemen. Offensively Karlsson deserves the award, defensively no. In my opinion he wasnt good enough in all round play to deserve the Norris.

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05-10-2012, 08:45 AM
  #28
canadianguy77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Some of you guys are nuts and are just simply looking for an excuse to deny a 21 year old of a trophy that he's clearly earned. But it's not even your fault really, that's how the NHL Awards has treated it as well.

We might as well call the Norris the "Lifetime achievement award for Defensemen" then. Somehow Lidstrom won it last season as a MINUS player...if that doesn't tell you **** is messed up nothing will.

Karlsson had 3 less points than James Neal and his 50 even strength points puts him just a few back of the next closest defenseman's TOTALS.

But here's the issue. He's 21. That's why he won't win. "He'll be in the Norris trophy discussions for the next 10-15 years"...that's the rational people will use to deny him of this trophy and they'll hand it to someone who had a really good year and they feel more comfortable anointing the league's best at a position without fear of them becoming the next Jim Carrey punchline.

Only 2 defensmen in the history of the NHL put up more points than Karlsson at the same age (21). Bobby Orr and Paul Coffey.
Sorry man...didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. My original post was about Kris Letang and some hypothetical numbers he may have posted had he been healthy for all 82 games, and his chance at a Norris with those numbers.

When he (Letang) played this year, he was flat-out dominant in a lot of the games,(in my eyes) which is why I posed the question.

I actually like Karlsson btw, but he has a ways to go (defensively) to be able to match Letang's all-around game...but again, just my opinion.

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05-10-2012, 09:44 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Some of you guys are nuts and are just simply looking for an excuse to deny a 21 year old of a trophy that he's clearly earned. But it's not even your fault really, that's how the NHL Awards has treated it as well.

We might as well call the Norris the "Lifetime achievement award for Defensemen" then. Somehow Lidstrom won it last season as a MINUS player...if that doesn't tell you **** is messed up nothing will.

Karlsson had 3 less points than James Neal and his 50 even strength points puts him just a few back of the next closest defenseman's TOTALS.

But here's the issue. He's 21. That's why he won't win. "He'll be in the Norris trophy discussions for the next 10-15 years"...that's the rational people will use to deny him of this trophy and they'll hand it to someone who had a really good year and they feel more comfortable anointing the league's best at a position without fear of them becoming the next Jim Carrey punchline.

Only 2 defensmen in the history of the NHL put up more points than Karlsson at the same age (21). Bobby Orr and Paul Coffey.
While I think there are some anti-Karlsson folks that would fall into the category you describe above, it's not the ONLY reason to deny him that award. The bigger reason IMHO is he's defensively nowhere near the others that would be nominated. He gets almost no PK time. That alone is a huge red flag for lots of people.

Also, Green's totals a few years ago were arguably more impressive than Karlsson's this season. He missed 14 games and still put up 31g and 73pts.

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05-10-2012, 10:00 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianguy77 View Post
Sorry man...didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. My original post was about Kris Letang and some hypothetical numbers he may have posted had he been healthy for all 82 games, and his chance at a Norris with those numbers.

When he (Letang) played this year, he was flat-out dominant in a lot of the games,(in my eyes) which is why I posed the question.

I actually like Karlsson btw, but he has a ways to go (defensively) to be able to match Letang's all-around game...but again, just my opinion.
I just used this thread to vent my feelings about this award.

It's the Green comparison that really bothers me I guess. Check these numbers out:

Mike Green
2008-09
73 points (31-42-73)
38 powerplay points (18-20-38)
34 even strength points (12-22-34)

2009-10
76 points (19-57-76)
35 powerplay points (10-25-35)
40 even strength points (9-31-40)

Erik Karlsson
2011-12
78 points (19-59-78)
28 powerplay points (3-25-28)
50 even strength points (16-34-50)

Green's just a powerplay machine. Karlsson is as valuable at even strength as he is on the man advantage.

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05-10-2012, 07:25 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I just used this thread to vent my feelings about this award.

It's the Green comparison that really bothers me I guess. Check these numbers out:

Mike Green
2008-09
73 points (31-42-73)
38 powerplay points (18-20-38)
34 even strength points (12-22-34)

2009-10
76 points (19-57-76)
35 powerplay points (10-25-35)
40 even strength points (9-31-40)

Erik Karlsson
2011-12
78 points (19-59-78)
28 powerplay points (3-25-28)
50 even strength points (16-34-50)

Green's just a powerplay machine. Karlsson is as valuable at even strength as he is on the man advantage.
As valuable offensively. But Mike Green didn't win the Norris, and neither should Karlsson. Because both are way too messy in their own zone. You know the DEFENSE part of being a defenseman.

And, for what it's worth, I'd rather have regular season Mike Green (circa '09 or '10 before the the groin injuries) way before I'd take 165 pound soaking wet Karlsson when it comes to play in his d-zone. Which says more about Karlsson than about Green.

Regardless, Green shouldn't have (and didn't) get the Norris, and neither should Karlsson this year. But I do agree with your frustration - make a Rod Langway award for defensive d-men, or a Bobby Orr award for the Green and Karlsson types to make it fair. The forwards have enough awards anyways.


Last edited by Skk82: 05-10-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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Old
05-10-2012, 07:46 PM
  #32
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I hate this. I'm basically in an impossible position to argue my point. I was going to ask the people who think Karlsson and Green are in the same defensive category to tell me how many times they've actually seen him play this year...but really...you'd just lie anyways.

Karlsson is WAY better than Mike Green in his own zone. It's not even close. He also isn't the 160 pounder he was last year. He's somewhere around 180-185. He still isn't a monster...but he's put on a lot of muscle.

Whatever, there's a pretty clear stereotype that isn't going to get broken anytime soon. He probably won't win the Norris because of it and that's what bugs me.

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05-10-2012, 10:00 PM
  #33
Darth Vitale
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Jesus some of the comments in here. I'd take Karlsson over Green 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. I still think Letang is better than Karlsson overall (as are a handful of others) but you can't deny Karlsson is a legit candidate this year and if he won it it would be well earned.

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05-11-2012, 09:22 PM
  #34
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Denying Karlsson the Norris because Mike Green didn't win is silly. Karlsson crushed his competition in scoring to a much larger degree than Green did. Karlsson is also better in his own zone.

To the guy defending Karlsson in this thread, I'd relax a bit. It's highly likely that he wins. He's had much more support from the media than Green did.

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Old
05-12-2012, 06:32 AM
  #35
IHWR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
To the guy defending Karlsson in this thread, I'd relax a bit. It's highly likely that he wins. He's had much more support from the media than Green did.
It's called preemptive complaining. It just me something to reference in the future.

I think there's a good chance he won't win, which is why I'm making such a big stink about it.

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