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Barry Trotz needs to be fired

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05-10-2012, 03:49 PM
  #351
roseyc
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I was being sarcastic. No one is happy or okay with losing to Phoenix. As for the effort in the games, the second half of game 1 was outplayed them like crazy. Game 3 we outplayed them. Game 4 was pretty even if not to our advantage, and Game 5 really wasn't the worst effort either. Inability to get pucks past a hot goaltender doesn't always equate to lack of effort.

It's hard to come out flat and outshoot teams like we did in some of these games, even if not all of them are point-blank chances, to still have to have possession and momentum to make it happen. We outshot them by 18 in game 1 and 16 in Game 5. We actually got outshot in game 3, but really that was the only game in which Rinne was better than Smith.
You have that grind mentality that we actually outplayed them and your right we did but we didn't outskill them. We overvalue our skilled people. We have too many people that give effort but can't finish. This is not the first year this has happened. I thought this was a best chance at advancing deeper if not to the finals. I think that's what was dissapointing that he(Trotz) didn't get all out of what was there and/or what was there can't don't it . That is part of the evaluating processs. All I here now is that well we probably wouldn't have beat LA. For real who knows. All series start with game 1 and it goes from there. Smith wasn't that hot we didn't challenge him that much and missed our few chances that fell to us. We certainly didn't create most of them. We said the same thing about Luongo last year and next year we'll say the same thing next about another goalie until we start making proper preparation and can excecute offensively

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05-10-2012, 04:40 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
You have that grind mentality that we actually outplayed them and your right we did but we didn't outskill them. We overvalue our skilled people. We have too many people that give effort but can't finish. This is not the first year this has happened. I thought this was a best chance at advancing deeper if not to the finals. I think that's what was dissapointing that he(Trotz) didn't get all out of what was there and/or what was there can't don't it . That is part of the evaluating processs. All I here now is that well we probably wouldn't have beat LA. For real who knows. All series start with game 1 and it goes from there. Smith wasn't that hot we didn't challenge him that much and missed our few chances that fell to us. We certainly didn't create most of them. We said the same thing about Luongo last year and next year we'll say the same thing next about another goalie until we start making proper preparation and can excecute offensively


Exactly, Those couple of sentences are fact. Bravo!!

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05-10-2012, 06:59 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
You have that grind mentality that we actually outplayed them and your right we did but we didn't outskill them. We overvalue our skilled people. We have too many people that give effort but can't finish. This is not the first year this has happened. I thought this was a best chance at advancing deeper if not to the finals. I think that's what was dissapointing that he(Trotz) didn't get all out of what was there and/or what was there can't don't it . That is part of the evaluating processs. All I here now is that well we probably wouldn't have beat LA. For real who knows. All series start with game 1 and it goes from there. Smith wasn't that hot we didn't challenge him that much and missed our few chances that fell to us. We certainly didn't create most of them. We said the same thing about Luongo last year and next year we'll say the same thing next about another goalie until we start making proper preparation and can excecute offensively
1.)Oh yeah last year's Cup champions skilled everyone to death until they were blue in the face. Vancouver couldn't get past Boston last season because they were too skilled and couldn't work hard and tough to the level Boston could. Also, Phoenix wasn't exactly the Wings out there either. And speaking of, we outworked Detroit and they outskilled us but we beat them in 5.

2.) If we have too many people that supposedly can't finish, it's not Trotz's fault whatsoever. This recurring theme is probably why ownership wants to spend money for a change. If the issue is giving effort but not finishing, then Trotz has done his job because that's not his fault. Even the Trotz haters will say he's not the one missing nets.

3.) You can't seriously be saying that Phoenix of this year and Vancouver of last year are even.

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05-11-2012, 02:01 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
2.) If we have too many people that supposedly can't finish, it's not Trotz's fault whatsoever. This recurring theme is probably why ownership wants to spend money for a change. If the issue is giving effort but not finishing, then Trotz has done his job because that's not his fault. Even the Trotz haters will say he's not the one missing nets.
I don't hate Trotz and I don't want to see anyone else behind the bench, but I can't ever remember seeing a practice where there have been shooting accuracy drills. If players aren't finishing then you have to coach them up and give them the tools to be better players.

Coaching isn't just about Xs and Os.

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05-11-2012, 02:51 PM
  #355
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Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but I heard on the radio that we're the only team to make it out of the first round in both of the past 2 years.

Pretty crazy. Pretty sure that's one point in the "Don't Fire Trotz" column.

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05-11-2012, 02:56 PM
  #356
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Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but I heard on the radio that we're the only team to make it out of the first round in both of the past 2 years.

Pretty crazy. Pretty sure that's one point in the "Don't Fire Trotz" column.
That's in the Western Conference. Caps made it both years also.

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05-11-2012, 03:01 PM
  #357
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another nugget to show how terrible trotz was/is--only one team in the mighty powerful west has advanced to the Western Semi-Finals the past two years-Nashville
Ah. So someone did mention it...figured.

It's a pretty crazy stat when you think about it. We could be Vancouver or St. Louis right now...

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05-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #358
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That's in the Western Conference. Caps made it both years also.
Only the Caps?

It's surprising to me that only 2 teams have gotten past the first round in each of the past 2 years. The way fans talk, everyone expects their teams to not only advance, but to do it every year.

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05-11-2012, 03:17 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
Only the Caps?

It's surprising to me that only 2 teams have gotten past the first round in each of the past 2 years. The way fans talk, everyone expects their teams to not only advance, but to do it every year.
The way people talk, they expect to pull an 11 on a 10 point scale every time they walk into a club looking to score. It's just as unrealistic.

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05-11-2012, 03:26 PM
  #360
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As an outsider, I'm baffled by demnds to fire Trotz. IMO he's one of the better NHL coaches. As for his decision to sit Radulov and AKost, he had his finger on the oulse of the team. It remains to be seen if either will don a Predators uniform next season. The GM rather than the coach will make that decision. AKost will be a UFA and he may decide that it's unhealthy for him to stay in Nashville. Radulov may feel it was a mistake to return to the NHL. Who knows how this melodrama will end?

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05-11-2012, 04:16 PM
  #361
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big whoop.. we made it past the 1st round twice. I have stats since the lockout that indicate we need a coaching change.

time will tell. next year is trotz's make or break year imo. WCF or bust

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05-11-2012, 05:23 PM
  #362
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big whoop.. we made it past the 1st round twice. I have stats since the lockout that indicate we need a coaching change.

time will tell. next year is trotz's make or break year imo. WCF or bust
I have stats that show constant improvement under Trotz. OR bust positioning is ludicrous, especially since he hasn't lost the team, his message is still getting responded to, and most importantly his bosses are apparently still happy with him no matter how much message boards rant about him.

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05-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #363
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I have stats that show constant improvement under Trotz. OR bust positioning is ludicrous, especially since he hasn't lost the team, his message is still getting responded to, and most importantly his bosses are apparently still happy with him no matter how much message boards rant about him.
we all know bosses' opinions can change on a dime .. he has earned another 1-2 seasons for sure. but he really has to take us to the next level. his message may never get old but that doesn't mean he is our best option.

right now, I see no other options that are improvements over trotz. if we aren't careful, we could be looking at a preds team without weber and suter and nothing to show. trotz will still be here, though

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05-11-2012, 06:02 PM
  #364
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we all know bosses' opinions can change on a dime .. he has earned another 1-2 seasons for sure. but he really has to take us to the next level. his message may never get old but that doesn't mean he is our best option.

right now, I see no other options that are improvements over trotz. if we aren't careful, we could be looking at a preds team without weber and suter and nothing to show. trotz will still be here, though
We'll find out in the next few weeks if Suter is staying or leaving. Weber is unlikely to go this summer and if he does test the offer sheet market, I doubt he finds an offer that Poile doesn't match.

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05-11-2012, 06:40 PM
  #365
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Preds made it to the second round two years in a row! Surely the most accomplished team in the NHL!

since the lockout, 17 different teams have played in the conference finals, will be 18 after tomorrow. 9 Teams seeded 5-8 have played in the conference finals, if Washington advances that would be 10.

18 out of 30 have had a chance to advance and play for the Stanley Cup, and of the 12 who have not there are teams like Columbus, Long Island, Toronto, Atlanta/Winnipeg who were not even really challenging for the playoffs.

Don't talk about how fortunate we are to be consistent, and how fantastic it is that the Preds are the only ones to advance a round in both of the last two seasons. Freaking Phoenix had NEVER won a playoff series before and they're opening the conference finals on home ice Sunday night. Los Angeles, Montreal and Edmonton have all made it further as #8 seeds than the Preds ever have, period.

again, this is not to say Trotz needs to go right now. I've given up that one, but lets not pretend that the Preds are something extra-special just because of consistency.

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05-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #366
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What are we hoping to accomplish in firing Trotz? Is it a new system? A more offensive-minded coach? The sake of change? What's the key?

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05-11-2012, 07:15 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Preds made it to the second round two years in a row! Surely the most accomplished team in the NHL!

since the lockout, 17 different teams have played in the conference finals, will be 18 after tomorrow. 9 Teams seeded 5-8 have played in the conference finals, if Washington advances that would be 10.

18 out of 30 have had a chance to advance and play for the Stanley Cup, and of the 12 who have not there are teams like Columbus, Long Island, Toronto, Atlanta/Winnipeg who were not even really challenging for the playoffs.

Don't talk about how fortunate we are to be consistent, and how fantastic it is that the Preds are the only ones to advance a round in both of the last two seasons. Freaking Phoenix had NEVER won a playoff series before and they're opening the conference finals on home ice Sunday night. Los Angeles, Montreal and Edmonton have all made it further as #8 seeds than the Preds ever have, period.

again, this is not to say Trotz needs to go right now. I've given up that one, but lets not pretend that the Preds are something extra-special just because of consistency.
If I had to guess, we have had a payroll lower than every single one of those 18, with maybe one or two lower. Trotz is doing all he can.

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05-11-2012, 07:51 PM
  #368
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salary is a bit deceptive. Teams like the Preds have some favorable contract for young talent, up until this summer and Weber's arbitration he was certainly underpaid, same with Rinne, Suter and Radulov. Most of the higher payroll teams have some really bad contracts (Scott Gomez?).

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05-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #369
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I think you have define capale of winning. Every series is capable of being won. the only series we have been favored or a toss up with is the ducks from last year and the 2 from this year. Every other series this franchise has been an underdog. An underdog we believe can beat anyone, but that is the fanbase looking through then mustard, now gold colored lenses.
Underdog or not, lower seeded teams and teams with less points frequently win in the playoffs (except when Trotz is coaching). He doesn't know how to manage a team in a 7 game series. It's a different type of coaching. It's game planning and getting your team to exploit the opponents weaknesses. It's about responding to what the other coach and team are doing.

Taking numbers doesn't work in the postseason.


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I wonder how many NHL coaches would love to be able to say they have been in that many playoff series?
Ah, I see another "happy with the playoffs" type.



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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
another nugget to show how terrible trotz was/is--only one team in the mighty powerful west has advanced to the Western Semi-Finals the past two years-Nashville
Western Semi-Finals = Second round. Woo. When are we raising the banners.



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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
going from ****show in the first round to making the second round could also be seen as a coach improving his skills as well.


And how many of those coaches had a Ramzi Abid type playing on a first line in the playoffs?
Funny how you remember a guy who played all of 13 games with us (2 in the playoffs) but forget this team:

F: Arnott, Radulov, Kariya, Dumont, Forsberg, Legwand, Hartnell, Sullivan, Smithson, Tootoo, Nichol.

D: Timonen, Zidlicky, Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, Zanon.

G: Vokoun, C. Mason.

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05-11-2012, 10:05 PM
  #370
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Underdog or not, lower seeded teams and teams with less points frequently win in the playoffs (except when Trotz is coaching).
Frequently? This season one team in the west did it ... LA. Last season one lower seeded team in the west won a series ... and disproved your "except when Trotz is coaching" statement. 2010 ... one team lower seeded team in the west did it ... the Wings.

Apparently the word "frequently" means 1 team in the conference and Trotz can't do it, except when he did.

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05-11-2012, 10:38 PM
  #371
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Frequently? This season one team in the west did it ... LA. Last season one lower seeded team in the west won a series ... and disproved your "except when Trotz is coaching" statement. 2010 ... one team lower seeded team in the west did it ... the Wings.

Apparently the word "frequently" means 1 team in the conference and Trotz can't do it, except when he did.
Why do you ignore the east? Oh, because it hurts your bs case.

I said lower seeded or with fewer points.

This season 5 out of 8 of the first round series were won by the lower seed or the team with fewer points (WSH, Jersey, Philly, LA, and Phx). In the 2nd round, the team with the lower seed or fewer points has won all 3 second round series with one more still to go.

You amaze me.

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05-11-2012, 11:13 PM
  #372
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Why do you ignore the east? Oh, because it hurts your bs case.

I said lower seeded or with fewer points.

This season 5 out of 8 of the first round series were won by the lower seed or the team with fewer points (WSH, Jersey, Philly, LA, and Phx). In the 2nd round, the team with the lower seed or fewer points has won all 3 second round series with one more still to go.

You amaze me.
Your words define two separate sets ... teams lower points and teams lower seeds, not a single set of teams with lower points AND a lower seed. When your lower point logic fails, go to lower seeds and vice versa. So when you complain Trotz can't win as the lower seed, and it's proven wrong, you change your argument.

For your logic failure of a position to work you have to count the Devils as supporting it as winning in a lower seed while having more points, then count the Yotes as also supporting it while winning as a higher seed but with fewer points. If A then B unless it's if B then A ... maybe it's C.

Three teams that support your lower points AND lower seed argument advanced from the first round. Your picking and choosing which ones makes any stat you make up completely meaningless.

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05-12-2012, 11:38 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Preds made it to the second round two years in a row! Surely the most accomplished team in the NHL!

since the lockout, 17 different teams have played in the conference finals, will be 18 after tomorrow. 9 Teams seeded 5-8 have played in the conference finals, if Washington advances that would be 10.

18 out of 30 have had a chance to advance and play for the Stanley Cup, and of the 12 who have not there are teams like Columbus, Long Island, Toronto, Atlanta/Winnipeg who were not even really challenging for the playoffs.

Don't talk about how fortunate we are to be consistent, and how fantastic it is that the Preds are the only ones to advance a round in both of the last two seasons. Freaking Phoenix had NEVER won a playoff series before and they're opening the conference finals on home ice Sunday night. Los Angeles, Montreal and Edmonton have all made it further as #8 seeds than the Preds ever have, period.

again, this is not to say Trotz needs to go right now. I've given up that one, but lets not pretend that the Preds are something extra-special just because of consistency.
I guess the question is, would you rather make the conference finals once, then spend the next few years sucking (either by not making the playoffs at all or by getting bounced in the first round), OR would you rather make the playoffs every year and maybe not go as far?

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05-12-2012, 01:51 PM
  #374
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Your words define two separate sets ... teams lower points and teams lower seeds, not a single set of teams with lower points AND a lower seed. When your lower point logic fails, go to lower seeds and vice versa. So when you complain Trotz can't win as the lower seed, and it's proven wrong, you change your argument.

For your logic failure of a position to work you have to count the Devils as supporting it as winning in a lower seed while having more points, then count the Yotes as also supporting it while winning as a higher seed but with fewer points. If A then B unless it's if B then A ... maybe it's C.

Three teams that support your lower points AND lower seed argument advanced from the first round. Your picking and choosing which ones makes any stat you make up completely meaningless.
About as meaningless as you using just the western conference. My whole point is that seeding and standing really isn't that important in the playoffs. The "we're always underdog" argument us bs. There's no excuse why Trotz playoff is so abysmal. He is not good in the playoffs.

Now, quickly deflect with some meaningless stat about how expansion teams dating back to 1940 take "x" years to make the 2nd round and Trotz did it 2 years earlier.

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05-12-2012, 02:25 PM
  #375
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i haven't read this whole thread and won't do so but anyone who thinks having a different coach would have caused our highly paid players to actually play like highly paid players in the second round is fooling themselves.

and anyway the chances of trotz being fired are only slightly greater than the chances of the world ending next december...

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