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Koivu resigned to a 1 year, 3M + Bonuses

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05-10-2012, 01:18 PM
  #76
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Yeah, that lineup is more or less what I'm expecting right now. Though things could change quickly at the draft.

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05-10-2012, 01:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by duari91 View Post
Anyone thinking that koivu will be a 3rd line center in Anaheim is nuts. The hope of getting a true 2nd line center died with re-signing koivu. 3 million dollars for a 3rd line player? On a budget team? Be realistic.

Murray cant compete with the FA market, so he chose the easiest route, he signed koivu.
This was my initial reaction as well, but I wouldn't say the chance is dead. Yes logic would suggest that you wouldnt give a raise to someone who's role you plan to reduce. However, Koivu and his agent had ALL the leverage. Ducks had to have Koivu back in case something could not be worked out trade wise for another player. Center UFA market is crap, and cap just rose. He also signed a 1 year deal which generally means an increase as well.

However, due to the large amount of bargain contracts on this team, the team could easily afford to give Koivu a 500k raise and bring in another 2nd line center. While I don't think it will happen (Murray blows) the chance of it definitely isn't dead. I have said all along that this team did not need to bring in any more wingers for top 9, unless Cogliano is moved. Therefore all the extra $$$ we have can be used for the center and defense.

I agree that it seems unlikely that we'd give a raise to a player who is expected to have a smaller role, but murray's comments were encouraging IMO and I definitely do not believe the chance of bringing in another 2nd line center is dead.

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05-10-2012, 01:57 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duari91 View Post
Anyone thinking that koivu will be a 3rd line center in Anaheim is nuts. The hope of getting a true 2nd line center died with re-signing koivu. 3 million dollars for a 3rd line player? On a budget team? Be realistic.

Murray cant compete with the FA market, so he chose the easiest route, he signed koivu.
I think the odds of BM ever getting a true #2C were less than 50%. He was never going for a quality FA. In my mind, that idea was dead before Koivu signed. Bonino will be given a shot with Bobby and DSP. That line will swap between 2 and 3 with Koivu and Selanne depending upon who may be hot at the time. If Bonino flops it will be the revolving door we saw this year with different castoffs and prospects thrown in the mix.

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05-10-2012, 04:35 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
I feel like Murray has always done a good job of assessing the teams' weaknesses. He just doesn't effectively address them.
I think his other issue is that when he does address them he opens up an even bigger hole to do so. Like when we lost to Detroit in 09 because we only had 4 scoring forwards. He went out and addressed that with Lupul & Koivu but decimated our D, losing Pronger and Beauchemin. And now the D has been shored up a little bit with the emergence of Fowler & Sbisa as well as adding Beauchemin (again), Visnovsky and Lydman we're back to having a weak forward group.

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05-10-2012, 04:41 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
I have a feeling the line-up will look something like this (with the middle lines being 2A/2B):

DSP - Getzlaf - Perry
Cogs - Koivu - Teemu
Ryan - Bonino - Palmieri/UFA
Beleskey - UFA - Parros/UFA/Maroon/Snoop Dogg

As for the defense, hopefully either Lydman or Lubo are moved at Draft Day to give some more cap relief. Maybe pursue someone like Huselius or Penner.
That's essentially the same lineup that was 13th in the West last season less either Lydman or Visnovsky if they are moved as suggested. I don't like it's chances of making the playoffs barring everybody playing over their heads again like in the 10-11 season or a major step forward from some of our young players.

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05-10-2012, 04:50 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's essentially the same lineup that was 13th in the West last season less either Lydman or Visnovsky if they are moved as suggested. I don't like it's chances of making the playoffs barring everybody playing over their heads again like in the 10-11 season or a major step forward from some of our young players.
Where/how would you make changes? Not trying to sound snarky, just curious.

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05-10-2012, 05:02 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
Where/how would you make changes? Not trying to sound snarky, just curious.
Ideally or realistically? Ideally Cogs is moved, a gritty third line winger is signed/traded for (someone like Chris Neil) and we go hard after a quality second line centre (via trade as nothing is available in FA, Holland, Rakell, our 1st etc could be used as trade bait). There's not much that can be done with the D as we have plenty of bodies but lack a top end guy for the first pairing. Trading Visnovsky or Lydman would definitely weaken it considerably unless an equal or better guy is coming in to replace them.

Ryan/Palmieri - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan/Palmieri - X - Selanne
DSP - Koivu - X
Beleskey - Bonino - X

Beauchemin - Fowler
Lydman/Sbisa - Visnovsky
Lydman/Sbisa - Clark/Vatanen/Brookbank/UFA

If Palmieri falters, move Ryan to the top line and DSP can probably play alongside Teemu and said centre. Etem has an outside shot of cracking the top 6 also.

Realistically though I think your lineup is what we're going to see. Although I don't think Vis or Lydman will be moved unless Murray has adequate replacements.

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05-10-2012, 05:06 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Ideally or realistically? Ideally Cogs is moved, a gritty third line winger is signed/traded for (someone like Chris Neil) and we go hard after a quality second line centre (via trade as nothing is available in FA, Holland, Rakell, our 1st etc could be used as trade bait). There's not much that can be done with the D as we have plenty of bodies but lack a top end guy for the first pairing. Trading Visnovsky or Lydman would definitely weaken it considerably unless an equal or better guy is coming in to replace them.

Ryan/Palmieri - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan/Palmieri - X - Selanne
DSP - Koivu - X
Beleskey - Bonino - X

Beauchemin - Fowler
Lydman/Sbisa - Visnovsky
Lydman/Sbisa - Clark/Vatanen/Brookbank/UFA

If Palmieri falters, move Ryan to the top line and DSP can probably play alongside Teemu and said centre. Etem has an outside shot of cracking the top 6 also.

Realistically though I think your lineup is what we're going to see.
A few others I would look at acquiring would be Brandon Prust or Adam Burish. Those guys would be good Moen-types to add to a third-line with Koivu/Bonino and DSP.

As well, I would also really like to move Cogs. What a waste he's been. He's good on the PK, but he his hands are as bad as Blake's.

And lastly, I wouldn't trade Rakell. I'm starting to value him over most of our other prospects. He seems like he'll turn into a Zetterberg-type player who can play both ends, and has really good hands.

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05-10-2012, 05:07 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupermanPahlsson View Post
I have a feeling the line-up will look something like this (with the middle lines being 2A/2B):

DSP - Getzlaf - Perry
Cogs - Koivu - Teemu
Ryan - Bonino - Palmieri/UFA
Beleskey - UFA - Parros/UFA/Maroon/Snoop Dogg

As for the defense, hopefully either Lydman or Lubo are moved at Draft Day to give some more cap relief. Maybe pursue someone like Huselius or Penner.
Murray is more likely to hold on to Lydman and Lubo and expect a better season from them.

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05-10-2012, 06:41 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Ideally or realistically? Ideally Cogs is moved, a gritty third line winger is signed/traded for (someone like Chris Neil) and we go hard after a quality second line centre (via trade as nothing is available in FA, Holland, Rakell, our 1st etc could be used as trade bait). There's not much that can be done with the D as we have plenty of bodies but lack a top end guy for the first pairing. Trading Visnovsky or Lydman would definitely weaken it considerably unless an equal or better guy is coming in to replace them.

Ryan/Palmieri - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan/Palmieri - X - Selanne
DSP - Koivu - X
Beleskey - Bonino - X

Beauchemin - Fowler
Lydman/Sbisa - Visnovsky
Lydman/Sbisa - Clark/Vatanen/Brookbank/UFA

If Palmieri falters, move Ryan to the top line and DSP can probably play alongside Teemu and said centre. Etem has an outside shot of cracking the top 6 also.

Realistically though I think your lineup is what we're going to see. Although I don't think Vis or Lydman will be moved unless Murray has adequate replacements.
why do people still bother creating lines that break up koivu and selanne. it wont happen. they work well together, want to play together and play worse with other line mates. in all likely hood, selanne will get some assurance he will play with koivu if he returns.

baring injury, they will not be split up. making up lines that has them split up is wishful thinking.

dsp getzy perry
cogs, koivu, selanne (if he comes back)/ x (if he doesnt)
ryan, bonino / holland, palmieri
belesky, bonino / holland, x

beauch, fowler
sbisa, schultz / brookbank /clark/ x
lydman, vish

is what i see so far. if the young guys have a good camp who knows.

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05-10-2012, 07:19 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by gratefulyours View Post
why do people still bother creating lines that break up koivu and selanne. it wont happen. they work well together, want to play together and play worse with other line mates. in all likely hood, selanne will get some assurance he will play with koivu if he returns.
I said ideally. As in it would be ideal if Koivu who at this point in his career is a 3rd liner was playing on the 3rd line and Selanne is on the second line where he belongs. I don't like trying to spread the offense over three scoring lines because as it is we don't even have two full scoring lines.

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05-10-2012, 09:17 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Murray is more likely to hold on to Lydman and Lubo and expect a better season from them.
Agreed, with Beauchemin getting shoulder surgery, holding on to Lydman is more important than ever.

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05-11-2012, 03:47 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
It really does. The more I look at that lineup the more I hope Cogliano is moved. Not that he's a bad player or anything but we could really use somebody with a physical presence who can make room for Saku and Teemu in his spot.
I like Cogs as a player, but the fit is poor. we need to get back to being tough, it worked well for the blues, despite not being an elite team talent wise......I would try to bring in Paul Gaustad to anchor our 4th line, Beleskey if he wants to be a regular needs to be a consistently physical player, he should mold himself after Neil or Shawn Thornton.....and no more Parros, sign McGratton or give a young enforcer, who can also skate on your 4th line a chance.

The defense also needs to get bigger and tougher....basically we need a bigger, slightly more talented version of Brookbank...I think Lydman will bounce back after having several months to truly recover from his injuries.

Of course, this is ALL moot, if RPG all perform so terribly again

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05-11-2012, 07:50 AM
  #89
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I like Cogs as a player, but the fit is poor. we need to get back to being tough, it worked well for the blues, despite not being an elite team talent wise......I would try to bring in Paul Gaustad to anchor our 4th line, Beleskey if he wants to be a regular needs to be a consistently physical player, he should mold himself after Neil or Shawn Thornton.....and no more Parros, sign McGratton or give a young enforcer, who can also skate on your 4th line a chance.

The defense also needs to get bigger and tougher....basically we need a bigger, slightly more talented version of Brookbank...I think Lydman will bounce back after having several months to truly recover from his injuries.

Of course, this is ALL moot, if RPG all perform so terribly again
I think Gaustad is too expensive as a 4th line option, especially considering the fact that Koivu/Bonino would stop him from moving up in the lineup next year. If we're talking about this when Koivu isn't signed yet, then I love it since he could be the 2A/2B compliment to Bonino. This is the same argument about Jim Slater.

I would rather look at a cheap option like Zenon Konopka or Dominic Moore. To his wing, I suppose Neil, but what about Adam Burish or Brandon Prust? Prust is a guy who if we signed, could allow one of Perry or Ryan to move off of the PK (although Bruce might like them both there). Prust scored something like seven short-handed goals last season, and he would definitely solidify a fourth line that's perennially short-shifted at the end of games. He'd at least be valuable.


Last edited by SupermanPahlsson: 05-11-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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05-11-2012, 02:02 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's essentially the same lineup that was 13th in the West last season less either Lydman or Visnovsky if they are moved as suggested. I don't like it's chances of making the playoffs barring everybody playing over their heads again like in the 10-11 season or a major step forward from some of our young players.
depends on which version of the team we get.

the team that is putting up to save their jobs = playoffs
the team we got out of the gate last year = bottom feeder

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05-12-2012, 02:29 PM
  #91
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I am glad to see Saku back especially if that means #8 may be back as well BUT I can't see how a $3.8 million dollar cap hit is gong to benefit the Ducks right now. He should have been back for less or the same contract IMO. Better hope that (IF) Teemu comes back that it is for less, which is highly unlikely.

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05-12-2012, 03:07 PM
  #92
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I am glad to see Saku back especially if that means #8 may be back as well BUT I can't see how a $3.8 million dollar cap hit is gong to benefit the Ducks right now. He should have been back for less or the same contract IMO. Better hope that (IF) Teemu comes back that it is for less, which is highly unlikely.
3.8 ? Am I missing something? He signed only a 3 million dollar contract for one season. That's pretty good for not having a good FA market this year.

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05-12-2012, 03:22 PM
  #93
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3m + 800k in performance bonuses [someone said games played and points I think]

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05-12-2012, 04:14 PM
  #94
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05-12-2012, 06:54 PM
  #95
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The 800k in bonuses are irrelevant, if we do make the playoffs or 2nd round, they more than make up for the cost.

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05-14-2012, 03:24 AM
  #96
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The sad part is...

We probably aren't signing anyone to move up the salary.

So management is going to make a move, just so he can make a change... and that probably means Ryan is gone.

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05-14-2012, 05:40 AM
  #97
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  • Trade Bonino's rights (assuming he's more desirable than Cogs) + pick/prospects for 2C, let's say whose salary is approx. 4.5M
  • Re-sign Selanne 4,000,000 (1 year)
  • Sign Penner 3,500,000 (2 years)
  • Re-sign Parros (or similar, or prospect who impresses in camp) for ~700,000
  • Re-sign Brookbank (or similar or prospect who impresses in camp) for ~925,000

Total Salary: $56,097,500

Lines:

Penner - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan - 2C - Palmieri
DSP - Koivu - Selanne
Beleskey - Cogliano - Parros

Beauchemin - Fowler
Sbisa - Visnovsky
Lydman - Brookbank
Guenin

Hiller
JDD

OR, if Penner can't be signed, slide DSP up, put Cogs in his place and re-sign Bonino and save about 2.5M
  • Hiller should not have a horrible first half this year (if it was due to vertigo recovery last year)
  • Lydman/Vis need to rebound
  • Getz needs to rebound points-wise

Playoffs, here we come.

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05-14-2012, 10:57 AM
  #98
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I don't want Penner, but I really don't want him at $3.5M. If the dumpster diver insists on going after him, nothing more than $2.0 for one year.

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05-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #99
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I don't want Penner, but I really don't want him at $3.5M. If the dumpster diver insists on going after him, nothing more than $2.0 for one year.
That'd would be ideal, but IMO not realistic. His playoff performance will get him ~3.5M for 2-3 years from somebody and I could see it being Bargain Bob rolling the dice on him.

It could payoff, though, if he clicks again with Getz/Perry not to mention could be an extra reason for them to re-sign the following year (if I recall, they were all California party buddies).

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05-14-2012, 01:50 PM
  #100
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