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ECSF #5|May 8, 2012|Devils at Flyers |7:30 p.m. ET

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05-11-2012, 08:59 PM
  #926
Beef Invictus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
there were TWO aspects to that play and TWO blunders:

in chronological order:
1. Timonen, who wasn't really under much pressure and had at least 2 or 3 other "out" options, passing to his own goalie, then letting Clarkson go in on Bryz free and clear.

I blame Timonen for his error.


2. Bryz for not freezing it. [do not want him trying to play it, anywhere, needs to freeze it, just in case Timonen needed a stop - in which case Timonen needs to yell GET A STOP or FREEZE IT - something to tell Bryz what he was thinking.]

I blame Bryz for his error.

50% each.

what is nonsensical, is people trying so hard to ONLY blame 1 player, when both were at fault.

not that it's surprising, though.
Who do you usually blame for egregious turnovers? The guy solely responsible for the turnover, or the guy who passed him the puck?

If Giroux passes the puck to Carle, who then immediately passes it to an opposing player who then chips it down into an open net in the Flyers zone, is that Giroux's fault? How far back does the blame go? To the guy who had the puck before Giroux? To the ref for dropping the puck?

Edit: And yeah, I'm blaming solely Bryz because Bryz alone was at fault. Carle is renowned for turning the puck over; are those turnovers supposed to be blamed on the guy who gave Carle the puck before he turned it over? I mean, his teammates should know he's prone to that sort of thing, right?

It makes no sense. Timonen didn't make Bryz play the puck directly at Clarkson. Bryz alone chose to do that.

Edit 2: Let's say Timonen passes the puck to Coburn instead of Bryz. Coburn then turns it over. Is that turnover Timonen's fault too?

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Last edited by Beef Invictus: 05-11-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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Old
05-11-2012, 09:04 PM
  #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Who do you usually blame for egregious turnovers? The guy solely responsible for the turnover, or the guy who passed him the puck?

If Giroux passes the puck to Carle, who then immediately passes it to an opposing player who then chips it down into an open net in the Flyers zone, is that Giroux's fault? How far back does the blame go? To the guy who had the puck before Giroux? To the ref for dropping the puck?
towel boy of course..

its always the towel boys fault..

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05-11-2012, 09:09 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
towel boy of course..

its always the towel boys fault..
Yes. The towel boy's towels must have done an inferior job of wiping down someone's visor. The streaks of moisture distracted players, and they failed to keep the puck in the Devil's zone, so Kimmo ended up with the puck back in his end. He then passed it back to Bryz, despite the fact that he should have used magic (or something) to see the future and know that Bryz would do something insane.

Really, we ought to be blasting the towel boy's ancestors for giving birth to his parents, who in turn gave birth to him.

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05-12-2012, 10:10 AM
  #929
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
If Giroux passes the puck to Carle, who then immediately passes it to an opposing player who then chips it down into an open net in the Flyers zone, is that Giroux's fault? How far back does the blame go?

Edit: And yeah, I'm blaming solely Bryz
It makes no sense. Timonen didn't make Bryz play the puck directly at Clarkson. Bryz alone chose to do that.


you're really comparing the puckhandling skill of Bryz [with goalie gloves on] to that of Carle ? REALLY ? are you THAT desperate to criticize Bryz??

wow, this is an all-time low, even for you.

you are equating a goalie known for poor puckhandling skills [something some goalies NEVER do, or rarely do], with the puckhandling skills of a NHL Defenseman [with regular hockey gloves on]??



in answer to your question: it goes back 1 pass, when that pass is sent to your poor puckhandling goalie.
that gets you 50% of the blame.

you seem to think I'm solely blaming Kimmo, like you are solely blaming Bryz.

i'm not, i'm giving Bryz his share of the blame. he should have frozen the puck. and Kimmo should not have dumped the puck to him.

you look silly for ignoring Kimmo's 1/2 of the blame.

of course Timonen didn't make Bryz play the puck directly at Clarkson.
and Bryz didn't make Kimmo dump the puck back at him, either. what's your point ?

they both made errors in judgement by themselves. again, both to blame.



LOL ..... goalies compared to defensemen ...... good god, you're trying TOO hard, Fish / Beef !!


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 05-12-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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05-12-2012, 10:54 AM
  #930
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This thread is full of lolz.

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05-12-2012, 12:59 PM
  #931
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If Leighton did what Bryzgalov did in game 5, I would be willing to bet someones view on the own goal would be different.
It is a fact, that Leighton, Boucher let in some putrid goals. Only when that happened it was on them. Now this year when a similar goal is allowed its on the defense, the coach, Danny Briere ect ect.

I bet this goal is 50 percent Bryan McCabe's fault, or hell maybe 75 percent of his fault too right?


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05-12-2012, 06:10 PM
  #932
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Now this year when a similar goal is allowed its on the defense, the coach, Danny Briere ect ect.
no, it's 1/2 on the goalie who didn't freeze it & 1/2 on the D man who dumped it back to a poor puckhandling goalie, and let an opponent pressure him.

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05-12-2012, 06:46 PM
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05-12-2012, 06:57 PM
  #934
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If an NHL goalie can't handle a simple pass right on his stick from a defensemen with no intimidate pressure, then he shouldn't be an NHL goalie. That goal is 100% on Bryzgalov.

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05-12-2012, 07:38 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Ok, let's try this, since you are eager to ignore my point and argue a completely different one.

There's an empty damned net. Giroux passes to Carle. Carle does something stupid, and turns it over for the goal that finishes the game.

Is that Giroux's fault? Or Carle's?
Nah, it's Holmgren's fault for obtaining Carle in a trade in November 2008.

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05-12-2012, 08:50 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post


you're really comparing the puckhandling skill of Bryz [with goalie gloves on] to that of Carle ? REALLY ? are you THAT desperate to criticize Bryz??

wow, this is an all-time low, even for you.

you are equating a goalie known for poor puckhandling skills [something some goalies NEVER do, or rarely do], with the puckhandling skills of a NHL Defenseman [with regular hockey gloves on]??



in answer to your question: it goes back 1 pass, when that pass is sent to your poor puckhandling goalie.
that gets you 50% of the blame.

you seem to think I'm solely blaming Kimmo, like you are solely blaming Bryz.

i'm not, i'm giving Bryz his share of the blame. he should have frozen the puck. and Kimmo should not have dumped the puck to him.

you look silly for ignoring Kimmo's 1/2 of the blame.

of course Timonen didn't make Bryz play the puck directly at Clarkson.
and Bryz didn't make Kimmo dump the puck back at him, either. what's your point ?

they both made errors in judgement by themselves. again, both to blame.



LOL ..... goalies compared to defensemen ...... good god, you're trying TOO hard, Fish / Beef !!
You claim that, but I'm not the one who's desperately trying to absolve Bryz of blame for a bad decision he alone chose to made. You're the guy coming off as being desperate to absolve Bryz of responsibility for his actions.

The difference between you and me, from what I can tell, is that I want Bryz to succeed and love it when he does. You, however, cannot bear to see him make mistakes and be criticized.

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05-13-2012, 07:55 PM
  #937
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I'm not the one who's desperately trying to absolve Bryz of blame for a bad decision he alone chose to made.
wrong:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i'm giving Bryz his share of the blame. he should have frozen the puck.
Bryz gets 100% of the blame for HIS PART. bad decision not to freeze it. no 2 ways about it.

that's not absolving him of ANYTHING. quote me where i said he is not to blame for his error. otherwise, stop inventing things, i'm certain that is against of forum rules.

you can ignore it all you want, but that play started with Kimmo.

therefore, Timonen gets 100% of the blame for HIS PART. bad decision to throw the puck back to a goalie who has trouble handling the puck. a bad decision he alone chose to make.


2 errors by 2 players on the play. each player solely 100% to blame for his part in the situation, for a bad decision they alone chose to make.

=====================

as far as your 'let's compare it to a forward & a defenseman, or an empty net' .... here's the ONLY relevant comparison:

Q:
if a player on team A, with other options available to him, dumps the puck to his goalie who is known for poor puckhandling, and the goalie shoots the puck instead of freezing it or clearing the puck away, and it deflects into his net; who gets the blame ?

A:
both do 50%.
the player 50% for dumping it back to the goalie who has trouble handling pucks & the goalie 50% for not freezing it / clearing the puck away

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05-15-2012, 05:11 AM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
If an NHL goalie can't handle a simple pass right on his stick from a defensemen with no intimidate pressure, then he shouldn't be an NHL goalie. That goal is 100% on Bryzgalov.
Yeah, Bryzgalov has gotten a lot of flack that he hasn't quite deserved this season, but that goal is all on him. I coached 16-year-olds a few years ago and I would have expected the goalies I had then to be able to handle a pass better than that.

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