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Old
05-09-2012, 09:20 AM
  #51
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
RyJo should be playing top six minutes. I'd pencil him in the number 2 center position and have him play there. They had their chance to send him back to Portland and they didn't, that meant they were intent on having him play, so play the kid. Go get another center to serve as the number 1 and have RyJo on the second line. Brass on the third.
I hope that Johansen can earn minutes as the second line center and that Letestu and DMac fall into place on the third and fourth lines. For me, Brassard either has to fulfill his draft expectations and center the top line or he needs to be moved. I anticipate that he will not be with the Jackets next season. I'd welcome him proving me wrong.

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05-09-2012, 09:21 AM
  #52
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Yeah, 'cause we need Eberle to shore up our RW.

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05-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I hope that Johansen can earn minutes as the second line center and that Letestu and DMac fall into place on the third and fourth lines. For me, Brassard either has to fulfill his draft expectations and center the top line or he needs to be moved. I anticipate that he will not be with the Jackets next season. I'd welcome him proving me wrong.
It's not an either/or proposition though. If Brassard is able to center the second line, then he should be doing so...it's not like his only position is first line or AHL.

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05-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I hope that Johansen can earn minutes as the second line center and that Letestu and DMac fall into place on the third and fourth lines. For me, Brassard either has to fulfill his draft expectations and center the top line or he needs to be moved. I anticipate that he will not be with the Jackets next season. I'd welcome him proving me wrong.
I'd have shipped Brass out already....

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05-09-2012, 09:31 AM
  #55
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
It's not an either/or proposition though. If Brassard is able to center the second line, then he should be doing so...it's not like his only position is first line or AHL.
I'm leaning toward either/or MB. Brass is poorly suited to bottom six roles, so he needs to center one of the top two lines. I'm very leary of playing a youngster like RyJo on the top line, so I'd rather see him center Line 2. That leaves little room for Brassard, other than top line, unless Johansen flops (always a possibility). For me, then, Brass is either top line or gone. Naturally, changes in personnel and circumstances will affect this scenario over the summer. It is, after all, only May and I'm just passing the time!

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05-09-2012, 09:39 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
RyJo should be playing top six minutes. I'd pencil him in the number 2 center position and have him play there. They had their chance to send him back to Portland and they didn't, that meant they were intent on having him play, so play the kid. Go get another center to serve as the number 1 and have RyJo on the second line. Brass on the third.
Hopefully we can get someone like Couture for Nash. Couture-Johan-Brass is solid down the center. Ideally we could sign a Stoll type and trade Brass. Sign some shutdown D and Trade Methot. Trading Brass and Methot could give us other pieces to fill in holes in the top 9 and draft picks in 2013 suffer another year (like we really expect anything different ) and draft a few first round picks (at least ours and LA's).

By 2014 we have Couture and JMFJ entering their prime and a developed Johan, Murray, and Atkinson, and possibly guys like Mackinnon or Jones in the wings. We're ready to compete in 2 years at a high level not just hoping we can make the playoffs.

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05-09-2012, 10:33 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post



Assuming Nash stays, I figure Johan will be centering what amounts to the second line. We don't have a true #1C at this point yet, but we have a reasonable chance of having two #2Cs, and that's still above-average for the Blue Jackets.

I'm much more concerned about the situation at RW. I can't see any way to patch that situation outside of bringing in guys like Brad Boyes and hoping for fluke seasons. Seriously, right now our right wingers are Attaboy - whom heavily relying on would be a mistake given his youth - and (assuming we resign him) Dorsett. And that's it.

Frankly, our top-6 forward depth is such that I don't think it's possible for us to trade Brassard without suffering mightily. I'm not averse to trading Methot to attempt to address that, but then we need a spare shutdown blueliner in case of injuries or regression. (I wouldn't mind having a spare without trading Methot, but, well, Moore needs ice time, right? )


If Nash goes, of course, then all this goes up in the air depending on the return.

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05-10-2012, 05:27 AM
  #58
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THis team is rebuilding . . .

Even if Howson doesn't want to admit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post

Frankly, our top-6 forward depth is such that I don't think it's possible for us to trade Brassard without suffering mightily. I'm not averse to trading Methot to attempt to address that, but then we need a spare shutdown blueliner in case of injuries or regression. (I wouldn't mind having a spare without trading Methot, but, well, Moore needs ice time, right? )


If Nash goes, of course, then all this goes up in the air depending on the return.
I suspect the current "braintrust" (such as it is) assumes an NHL-ready player will be available at No. 2 overall, be it a forward or a defenseman, and will want to get his name into the line-up ASAP. So it wouldn't surprise me to see the team move a player to make room at a given position, after drafting a guy they project at that position.

For example, if Yakupov goes first and CBJ takes Murray second, they might then trade Methot as part of a package for a top-six wing to help fill the void left by Nash.

Just a hunch, no claims of inside info, YMMV.

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05-10-2012, 09:34 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
I suspect the current "braintrust" (such as it is) assumes an NHL-ready player will be available at No. 2 overall, be it a forward or a defenseman, and will want to get his name into the line-up ASAP. So it wouldn't surprise me to see the team move a player to make room at a given position, after drafting a guy they project at that position.
Agree on the defenseman, not the forward. We have the depth on D to take a player like Murray and put him in right away with a chance to succeed. At the same time doing that (and the fact that we will likely go after a shutdown style guy in Free Agency) makes a guy like Methot expendable for help up front.

If we draft a forward, it does nothing to relieve our current situation. We are so thin up front its pathetic. If we try and put someone into the line up right away they are likely going to be forced to play top 6 minutes, and they need to be ready for that (other than yakupov nobody seems to be at that level).

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05-13-2012, 09:32 AM
  #60
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Serious question here. Can anyone outline what is supposed to be so exciting and promising about Ryan Johansen? I watched and waited this past season looking for something, anything, that would make me giddy about his future here.

He's got size, gangly like a colt, which I assume he will grow into and get comfortable with. But for now he is inconsistent, weak on the puck, and makes some strange decisions. Yeah, yeah, confidence might be an issue due to his scratches, but I would have scratched him too, hoping he'd figure it out a little.

Conditioning has been reported as an issue, and he seems lackadaisical.

So, why WOULDN'T we package him in a trade? I just don't get the Johansen love. He reminds me of another over-confident immature young player on our roster who reports out of shape and is wildly inconsistent. But that one's a goalie.

*** fine print: I realize he's very young, but his attitude seems to be a real problem IMO.

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05-13-2012, 09:38 AM
  #61
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*** fine print: I realize he's very young, but his attitude seems to be a real problem IMO.
Attitude a problem? Where did you come up with that?

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05-13-2012, 09:39 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby View Post
Serious question here. Can anyone outline what is supposed to be so exciting and promising about Ryan Johansen? .
I'm trying to find out too Derby, he hasn't shown anything in 67 games. I never understood the pick from day 1. He looks like a kid we'll trade in a couple years for another Raffi Torres or a 3rd round pick.
He should be traded this offseason while he's still got some value left, wait longer and you won't get anything.
It was a bad pick when you look at who we could have had instead. Cam Fowler, Jeff Skinner, Nino Niederreiter, Alex Burmistrov, and Mikael Granlund. All of those guys are better than RyJo and were picked after him.

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05-13-2012, 09:41 AM
  #63
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Attitude a problem? Where did you come up with that?
Watching practice, watching off-ice situations, listening to people who are closer to the team than you or I are.

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05-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #64
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It was a bad pick when you look at who we could have had instead. Cam Fowler, Jeff Skinner, Nino Niederreiter, Alex Burmistrov, and Mikael Granlund. All of those guys are better than RyJo and were picked after him.
You complain about Johansen and you bring up Niederreiter as "better". The king of garbage seasons? Grandlund isn't even in the NHL. If Johansen was a stretch at 4, Skinner would have been a larger one.

This place gets odder and odder all the time.

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05-13-2012, 04:08 PM
  #65
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Johansen was a rookie last year. He will put it together. He should have been sent back to juniors. He definitely needs to add 15 pounds and improve. But the kid is 19 years old. Bad asset management if you trade him.

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05-14-2012, 11:44 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Derby View Post
Watching practice, watching off-ice situations, listening to people who are closer to the team than you or I are.
Which doesn't match what people in Portland had to say about him.

Perhaps playing in the NHL might have gone to his head. Hopefully last season knocked a little wind out of his sails and gave him a reality check, which sending him back to junior where he would have dominated a bunch of 17=18 year olds that are smaller than him would not have done.

An extra season of junior like that can lead to lazy habits since players can play at 50%, have 25 minutes of ice time and still win.

But giving up a 19 year old based on one season is way premature.

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05-14-2012, 11:54 AM
  #67
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Watching practice, watching off-ice situations, listening to people who are closer to the team than you or I are.
Just noticed the response. So basically, nothing tangible. Got it.

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05-14-2012, 01:15 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
Which doesn't match what people in Portland had to say about him.

Perhaps playing in the NHL might have gone to his head. Hopefully last season knocked a little wind out of his sails and gave him a reality check, which sending him back to junior where he would have dominated a bunch of 17=18 year olds that are smaller than him would not have done.

An extra season of junior like that can lead to lazy habits since players can play at 50%, have 25 minutes of ice time and still win.

But giving up a 19 year old based on one season is way premature.
He has some work to do but if he gets traded now he will be starting somewhere else next year.. It's to soon for talk of trading Ryan Johansen, as for the attitude problems I'm curious as to where that came from.

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05-14-2012, 01:22 PM
  #69
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You complain about Johansen and you bring up Niederreiter as "better". The king of garbage seasons? Grandlund isn't even in the NHL. If Johansen was a stretch at 4, Skinner would have been a larger one.

This place gets odder and odder all the time.
Skinner was regarded as a stretch where he actually ended up being drafted as it was.

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05-14-2012, 01:26 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Skinner was regarded as a stretch where he actually ended up being drafted as it was.
Agree, he first came to my attention after that NHL game in Russia, the Russians gave him an award for being the best player of the game, since that time I've noticed him quite a bit.

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05-14-2012, 02:52 PM
  #71
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Just noticed the response. So basically, nothing tangible. Got it.
So give me an example of tangible attitude problem example. Kicked my dog? I know enough to stand behind my belief that the kid has let the NHL go to his head ala Mason.

And, my real point was that I haven't seen much on ice either to warrant an unwillingness to trade him. Of course, you didn't respond to that. That's be actually engaging in conversation.

Got it.

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05-14-2012, 03:05 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Derby View Post
So give me an example of tangible attitude problem example. Kicked my dog? I know enough to stand behind my belief that the kid has let the NHL go to his head ala Mason.

And, my real point was that I haven't seen much on ice either to warrant an unwillingness to trade him. Of course, you didn't respond to that. That's be actually engaging in conversation.

Got it.
If you traded every player after a mediocre first year you would be the dumbest GM in history. What else do I need?

I saw plenty of flashes of the player he can become. I also saw some garbage play and some conditioning issues. Typical rookie. I can see you already forget some magical passes that he made that hint at the type of play maker he can become. He has a pretty good shot. He tried on defense more than slacked.

Frankly, I never saw what your issues are/were. What I saw was a guy that should have been in the AHL for his first pro season (but couldn't be, because of a silly agreement) or back in Junior's (if we weren't going to play him).

You aren't going to get #4 pick value trading him now. I don't even get why you are considering it, honestly.

Ala Mason? Please. I've heard a few things as well and nothing to suggest anything like that.

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05-14-2012, 03:15 PM
  #73
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If you traded every player after a mediocre first year you would be the dumbest GM in history. What else do I need?

I saw plenty of flashes of the player he can become. I also saw some garbage play and some conditioning issues. Typical rookie. I can see you already forget some magical passes that he made that hint at the type of play maker he can become. He has a pretty good shot. He tried on defense more than slacked.

Frankly, I never saw what your issues are/were. What I saw was a guy that should have been in the AHL for his first pro season (but couldn't be, because of a silly agreement) or back in Junior's (if we weren't going to play him).

You aren't going to get #4 pick value trading him now. I don't even get why you are considering it, honestly.

Ala Mason? Please. I've heard a few things as well and nothing to suggest anything like that.
I just don't see him as untouchable, and his play was more meh or lame than flashes of brilliance.

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05-14-2012, 03:28 PM
  #74
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I just don't see him as untouchable, and his play was more meh or lame than flashes of brilliance.
Wonder how many times this has been said during a rookie season with a future star player. Perhaps after Seguin's rookie season?

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05-14-2012, 03:34 PM
  #75
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I may have posted this in here; I don't remember and I never pass up the opportunity to re-post my prior thoughts anyway.

All of the following players scored less than 25 points in their 18- or 19-year-old season in the NHL (since 1990-91).

Stephen Weiss
Scott Hartnell
Shane Doan
Tyler Seguin
Kyle Turris
Justin Williams
Pierre-Marc Bouchard
Petr Nedved
Owen Nolan
Nathan Horton
Joe Thornton
Alexander Semin
Adam Deadmarsh
Jeff Friesen
Ryan Smyth
Dustin Brown
Ryan Kesler
Keith Tkachuk
Pavol Demitra
Adam Graves
Olli Jokinen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby View Post
So give me an example of tangible attitude problem example. Kicked my dog? I know enough to stand behind my belief that the kid has let the NHL go to his head ala Mason.

And, my real point was that I haven't seen much on ice either to warrant an unwillingness to trade him. Of course, you didn't respond to that. That's be actually engaging in conversation.

Got it.
Tangible? Ask Patrick Kane.

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