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Old
05-13-2012, 09:51 AM
  #26
SCoulton09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
It's a quantity for quality trade not horrible but just does not fit our needs AT ALL.


So every Avs fan says that we don't need two centers back in the trade and you take out one center and add a center prospect? lol
Leblanc is a way better winger than he is a center.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:13 AM
  #27
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by SCoulton09 View Post
Leblanc is a way better winger than he is a center.
Agreed.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Not interested as an Avs fan. The difference between Stastny and Plekanec isn't big, but I don't think Eller and a 3rd would make up for that difference.

I'm not sure where Eller would fit in Colorado's line-up. Colorado already has their centres in O'Reilly, Duchene, and Stastny/Plekanec. Then you have Landeskog, McGinn, Downie, and Mueller, on the wings, not to mention if one or more of Jones, Hejduk or a UFA are signed. Then you may also have Hishon pushing for a roster spot if he is healthy. Eller would be fighting for a third line spot and might not even get it. So I really don't see Eller as an upgrade for the Avs.
Don't worry, Habs wouldn't do that deal and value Eller's upside a lot more than that. He has a higher ceiling than about two third of the players you listed, but I don't see him panning that upside on the wings so I agree he's not a good fit for you guys if you're already getting another centre to replace Stastny.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Because Plekanec is not worth Stastny. (Hes older and does not have the point totals Stastny does.) Hence why the OP wants an upgrade.

Second we don't need Eller and wouldn't trade for him just to covert him to wing and hope it works out. Especially since he is not better than any of the current wingers we have on our team. Except the 4th line guys.. A 3rd round pick is not worth much and not much of a motivator to take the risks we would be taking here.

It's a quantity for quality trade not horrible but just does not fit our needs AT ALL.
Plekanec 2010-2011 52 points
Stastny 2010-2011 53 points
Plekanec 2011-2012 57 points
Stastny 2011-2012 57 points

Unless 5 years ago counts as the present?

I won't disagree about the needs part but this is strange to me. Stastny hasn't had good offensive years and has a higher cap hit. Plekanec is pretty much very close to Stastny in recent years if not equal completely. If you say Stastny has bad wingers or something...after saying Eller wouldn't be good enough at wing for colorado...Plekanec plays with Darche, DARCHE! lol Eller>Darche and if your wingers are >Eller then no complaints.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:53 AM
  #30
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Not interested from the Habs' POV. Stastny is likely an upgrade on Plekanec (but it's hard to quantify just how much of one - it might not be much), but you pay for that upgrade on the cap hit, and I wouldn't also include Eller... Eller is important to the Habs, because without a kick-ass stud centerman (and Statsny wouldn't be one either), the Habs need a strong committee, and Eller has shown well both in present tense and in terms of still having ample upside. I could see Eller being as good as Plekanec in the not-too-distant future. Well, that's a hopeful/optimistic upside, anyway. But he has the tools. I'd rather have Plekanec and Eller than Stastny for our team.

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Old
05-13-2012, 11:01 AM
  #31
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values fine i guess but it doesnt make much sense from either perspective really if stastny leaves its because the avs have one to many 1st/2nd line centers, stastny wont be traded for another 1st/2nd line center. colorado has elliot siemens gaunce and barrie coming up to go along with ej and a possible free agent signing so that leaves the wings, an area where montreal is also in need of. Montreal has a lot of defence i say a better trading partner for them is a team like philly whose loaded on offence but could use some d

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Old
05-13-2012, 01:19 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Don't worry, Habs wouldn't do that deal and value Eller's upside a lot more than that. He has a higher ceiling than about two third of the players you listed, but I don't see him panning that upside on the wings so I agree he's not a good fit for you guys if you're already getting another centre to replace Stastny.
2/3 of who, might I ask?

And as for the other guy saying Stastny isn't much of an upgrade, I'd just like to point out that Stastny is underachieving while Plekanac is playing roughly to expectations.

Stastny is definitely an upgrade offensively when he has legitimate wingers to work with. He and Pacioretty/Cole would be a line to be feared.

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Old
05-13-2012, 01:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
2/3 of who, might I ask?

And as for the other guy saying Stastny isn't much of an upgrade, I'd just like to point out that Stastny is underachieving while Plekanac is playing roughly to expectations.

Stastny is definitely an upgrade offensively when he has legitimate wingers to work with. He and Pacioretty/Cole would be a line to be feared.
So would Pleks and Pacioretty/Cole be a feared line.

On the OP's proposal. Not a chance from the Habs. Big overpayment from the Habs.
Pleks,Eller and one of Grigs/Gal >>>Stastny quite easily AINEC.

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Old
05-13-2012, 01:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Don't worry, Habs wouldn't do that deal and value Eller's upside a lot more than that. He has a higher ceiling than about two third of the players you listed, but I don't see him panning that upside on the wings so I agree he's not a good fit for you guys if you're already getting another centre to replace Stastny.
All the guys I listed are of a similar age and have a higher career total than 28 points. I really don't see Eller have a higher upside than any of the players I listed previously.

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Old
05-13-2012, 01:42 PM
  #35
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
So would Pleks and Pacioretty/Cole be a feared line.

On the OP's proposal. Not a chance from the Habs. Big overpayment from the Habs.
Pleks,Eller and one of Grigs/Gal >>>Stastny quite easily AINEC.
That's not the proposal FYI.

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Old
05-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
So would Pleks and Pacioretty/Cole be a feared line.

On the OP's proposal. Not a chance from the Habs. Big overpayment from the Habs.
Pleks,Eller and one of Grigs/Gal >>>Stastny quite easily AINEC.
What? Thats not whats being offered. If it was, then every Avs fan would be saying yes to this. Good reading skills there.

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Old
05-13-2012, 02:24 PM
  #37
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My bad on the reading of the OP'S proposal.
At first glance i thought he was asking for our 3rd overall. Now that it was pointed out it was a 3rd rd pick obviously my thoughts have changed.

I still wouldn't do the OP's offer.
Again it comes down to Eller+Pleks+our 3rd rd pick > Stastny
Maybe Pleks and our 3rd rd pick or Pleks and a prospect would work and IMO is more reasonable.

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:35 PM
  #38
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The problem is just about every proposal you see for Stastny are fans of other teams wanting us to take some kind of value deal for Stastny. Calling him over paid or underachieving and then making some sort of offer involving secondary pieces.

Stastny has returned to close to PPG form over the last couple months. While having better wingers during the regular season and then has continued with his IIHF play.

And to be fair those "better wingers" are a inconsistent Jones who only seems to be able to score at anything close to a consistent rate when hes next to Stastny. (Even that is only a 20 goal pace) Then McGinn who was having a career year on pace for just 20 goals. All of the sudden after being put with Stastny he paced for 39 goals.

So it's not even as if Stastny has two guys with the scoring ability that Cole & Max have. We will have to wait and see if McGinn continues anything close to his production.

Stastny makes his line mates often WAY better than they are.

See this list..

Stewart
Jones
Galiardi
McGinn

McGinn is the only one on that list that produced albeit less before being put with Stastny, the rest produced while next to him and then after being traded or moved off of his line they drop off the face of the earth. All of them were third line grinders at one point.

So basically Stastny costs what any other 1st line center would cost because that is what we value him at. Anything less in value and we don't need to move him. Especially if it does not fit our needs to a T..

(This is why most proposals for him have stopped..)

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:37 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66theNBERofthebeast View Post
Colorado Paul Statsny



Montreal Thomas Plekanec
Lars Eller
3rd round pick

I like to see the Statsny paciorrety duo i think paciorrety stasny cole line would be great in mtl i know mtl fans are gonna think we are giving alot but you need to give to receive.

colorado get a good responsible 2 way center to play behind duschene and a good young player in eller

flame away !!

Whoa talk about Montreal gets fleeced. This is just as bad as the Gomez trade.

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:44 PM
  #40
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Whoa talk about Montreal gets fleeced. This is just as bad as the Gomez trade.
Not sure if you are serious but how is this even close to being as bad as the Gomez trade for Montreal?

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:48 PM
  #41
CobraAcesS
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Whoa talk about Montreal gets fleeced. This is just as bad as the Gomez trade.
lol now that is an intelligent statement if I have ever seen one. You must have stayed at a Holiday Inn recently.

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Old
05-13-2012, 08:51 PM
  #42
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Leafs fan, saying Montreal doesn't touch this.

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Old
05-13-2012, 09:30 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Not sure if you are serious but how is this even close to being as bad as the Gomez trade for Montreal?
Misread it and thought it was the 3rd pick overall. a top 3 pick + eller + plekanec for stastny would be a big overpayment. Pleks is a great two way player and he's putting up similar points as stastny.

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Old
05-13-2012, 09:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
lol now that is an intelligent statement if I have ever seen one. You must have stayed at a Holiday Inn recently.
Pleks - Stastny. Stastny hasn't been playing good for a while now. Pleks produce similar points and he is way better in neutral and his own zone. a underrated 2-way player. Then you add a pretty young and good Eller and what I thought was the 3rd pick overall (3.32 am over here, reeeeeeeeeeally tired going to bed now) that would've been a vast overpayment. now that it's a 3rd round pick it's not as bad.

If it was the top 3 pick Montreal would get robbed. Sure they got Stastny but they'd lose Pleks (Real good) and Eller (good, can turn into a real good player) + top 3 which should be a great future player. That would be stupid.

At least in the Gomez trade they traded scrubs and 1 unknown player (who is playing ridiculously good, McDonagh). Here they offer 2 knows players. Pleks being close to a wash with Stastny. And then a top 3 pick.

Would be a crazy deal to make.


But as I said. I'm really tired and misread the 3rd rounder for the 3rd overall. So nvm my initial post.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
2/3 of who, might I ask?

And as for the other guy saying Stastny isn't much of an upgrade, I'd just like to point out that Stastny is underachieving while Plekanac is playing roughly to expectations.

Stastny is definitely an upgrade offensively when he has legitimate wingers to work with. He and Pacioretty/Cole would be a line to be feared.
Actually, you are wrong. Plekanec did not play to what is expected of him, offensively. However, when you lose your Captain and top line RW (Gionta) and your top LW (Cammaleri) plays so poorly he is run out of town, and then you get linemates like Darche for the bulk of the season, it is easy to see why point totals would drop. Unless you are an Avalanche fan who has no clue about Plekanec and simply try to justify a weak argument with stats out of context.

Like I said earlier, Stastny is slightly better offensively, overall, but not enough to justify any other significant asset.

Also, Stastny would not replace DD on the Cole/Pacioretty line due to the chemistry those players have. Please, keep Stastny.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:10 PM
  #46
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the only reason I would trade Pleky is for a big center. I like Stastny but he's not what we need.

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05-13-2012, 10:21 PM
  #47
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No, the Avalanche will not accept your 11 dimes for our dollar bill.

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05-13-2012, 10:31 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
2/3 of who, might I ask?

And as for the other guy saying Stastny isn't much of an upgrade, I'd just like to point out that Stastny is underachieving while Plekanac is playing roughly to expectations.

Stastny is definitely an upgrade offensively when he has legitimate wingers to work with. He and Pacioretty/Cole would be a line to be feared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
All the guys I listed are of a similar age and have a higher career total than 28 points. I really don't see Eller have a higher upside than any of the players I listed previously.
You both should catch more Habs games then, because it really sounds like you don't really know who Lars Eller is. Looking at his sophomore stats on hockeydb won't help your arguments if you simply don't know much about his game.

I see him having more upside than McGinn, Downie, Mueller, Jones and Hejduk. Hejduk because he's close to retirement but he had a great career, and Mueller because at this point his injury woes would make me want to steer away from him big time even though he does have 1st line skills, so in this way a higher upside than Eller.

Anyhow, I believe this makes it close to 2/3.

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:45 PM
  #49
CobraAcesS
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Actually, you are wrong. Plekanec did not play to what is expected of him, offensively. However, when you lose your Captain and top line RW (Gionta) and your top LW (Cammaleri) plays so poorly he is run out of town, and then you get linemates like Darche for the bulk of the season, it is easy to see why point totals would drop. Unless you are an Avalanche fan who has no clue about Plekanec and simply try to justify a weak argument with stats out of context.

Like I said earlier, Stastny is slightly better offensively, overall, but not enough to justify any other significant asset.

Also, Stastny would not replace DD on the Cole/Pacioretty line due to the chemistry those players have. Please, keep Stastny.
You people do realize it was a Habs fan that suggested this? Can we just agree that neither team likes this.

As to Stastny vs Plekanec ?

Plekanec is 29

Stastny is 26

Plekanec: GP-551 G-142 A-221 P-363 (.659 PPG%)

Stastny: GP-427 G-126 A-248 P-374 (.876 PPG%)

Stastny is younger, has produced more in less years and is just as good as Plekanec on both sides of the puck. Eller + 3rd rounder does not make the difference between a 1st line center and a second line center. Get over it..


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Old
05-13-2012, 11:12 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
You people do realize it was a Habs fan that suggested this? Can we just agree that neither team likes this.

As to Stastny vs Plekanec ?

Plekanec is 29

Stastny is 26

Plekanec: GP-551 G-142 A-221 P-363 (.659 PPG%)

Stastny: GP-427 G-126 A-248 P-374 (.876 PPG%)

Stastny is younger, has produced more in less years and is just as good as Plekanec on both sides of the puck. Eller + 3rd rounder does not make the difference between a 1st line center and a second line center. Get over it..
Only thing is Stastny is no wheres close on being as good as Pleks on both sides of the puck. Stastny is better by a bot on the offensive part of the game but when it comes to the defensive part it's no contest.
Pleks,Eller+3rd rd pick is easily > Stastny.AINEC

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