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The FAN 1200 - Pierre McGuire - 3rd overall vs J. Staal??

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05-13-2012, 08:40 PM
  #301
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
So a 22 year old player puts up 50 points on the stat sheet while playing a defensive role with Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy but he can't put up 1st line numbers while playing with 1st line players in an offensive role? Some solid reasoning some of you have... The kid's a PROVEN warrior who's still Eller's age.
With Staal aboard, what would happen to Eller and Desharnais?

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05-13-2012, 08:41 PM
  #302
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
I did 12 years.
Not bad. Just one thing: Pouliot was 4th overall, and Jack Johnson was 3rd, I believe. Still, I'd take Staal.

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05-13-2012, 08:43 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
With Staal aboard, what would happen to Eller and Desharnais?
Staal
Eller/Plekanec (2A/2B)
Desharnais (the rest of the time)

Don't see why that couldn't work for a couple of years. Wingers are the key, but many have been saying that for a while now...

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05-13-2012, 08:45 PM
  #304
The Gal Pals
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, I'm not, but fair enough. And as far as "pressure" regarding his "worth" vs. a top draft pick, you are aware that he was drafted 2nd overall, and joined a team that just drafted Sidney Crosby 1st overall, and Malkin 2nd overall the year before that, right? But let's back up here... whose "first overall pick" are you talking about? "We" (as in the Habs) are picking 3rd, btw.
Sorry I meant our first round pick (meaning 3rd overall)

And in hindsight, given how players have turned out, Staal wouldn't have been a 2nd overall pick in 2006. He probably would've been 5th or 6th. Staal didn't have great stats in his draft yr compared to others like Giroux; Kessel; Toews for example yet he was chosen ahead of them because of his size and his last name. Moreover, Gally has more pts as a 16 yr old then Staal had as a 17 yr old so I'm also banking on him probably being better than Staal.

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05-13-2012, 08:50 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Sorry I meant our first round pick (meaning 3rd overall)

And in hindsight, given how players have turned out, Staal wouldn't have been a 2nd overall pick in 2006. He probably would've been 5th or 6th. Staal didn't have great stats in his draft yr compared to others like Giroux; Kessel; Toews for example yet he was chosen ahead of them because of his size and his last name. Moreover, Gally has more pts as a 16 yr old then Staal had as a 17 yr old so I'm also banking on him probably being better than Staal.
Well, I guess that means you are automatically counting on guys like Cory Emmerton, who also outscored 17 year old Staal (that same year), to end up being better, too. With all due respect, judging by points is such a fail way to judge prospects, especially when I know you couldn't even tell me right now what league scoring in the OHL was like back in 2005 compared to this year.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 05-13-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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05-13-2012, 09:20 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, I guess that means you are automatically counting on guys like Cory Emmerton, who also outscored 17 year old Staal (that same year), to end up being better, too. With all due respect, judging by points is such a fail way to judge prospects, especially when I know you couldn't even tell me right now what league scoring in the OHL was like back in 2005 compared to this year.
here's one... S.Kost outscored Staal that same year, 05-06, despite being a year younger.

Clearly a better player

other notables to outscore Staal despite being younger in recent years:

sam gagner (almost doubled Staal's pts!)
trevor lewis
jan mursak
pat maroon
e. grachev



amazed sometimes how people equate pt production, at any level (though especially Jr), as the be all end all evaluation of a player.

While Toews, Giroux and arguably Backstrom/Kessel have emerged from that draft as somewhat better players, Staal at 3rd overall in that draft wasn't a stretch at the time, nor in hindsight.

if/when he goes to another team, where he isn't behind two "generational" talents like Crosby/Malkin, I have a feeling his stock will shoot up in many peoples eyes.

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05-13-2012, 09:22 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
With Staal aboard, what would happen to Eller and Desharnais?
egads... heaven forbid we actually have some depth at the position, can't have that.


Eller seems to be handling himself just fine as a winger, and I imagine DD could figure things out on the wing if necessary as well.

that's a problem that would be nice to have after years of not having 3 solid options down the middle.

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05-13-2012, 09:43 PM
  #308
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This is a horrible idea, and makes me thankful this fool isn't in charge. Yea let's trade the #3 pick for a defensive center getting 4.5 million and is an UFA after the season, that is slow and injury prone.

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05-13-2012, 10:43 PM
  #309
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Staal<----it's a no brainer. No way on earth the Penguins do this anyway. If we drafted Grigorenko, he'd drop immediately into the pocket of Mr. Staal. The #3 pick is Euro land, and not in a good way, unless Galchenyuk isn't just another phony Euro with fake aggression and/or has elite scoring skill. If it's Murray vs Staal, then who knows?

Our new GM must understand the value of toughness/size. That's the era he played in. I do not expect a stream of euros in here, as has been the custom in the past.

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05-13-2012, 11:20 PM
  #310
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
here's one... S.Kost outscored Staal that same year, 05-06, despite being a year younger.

Clearly a better player

other notables to outscore Staal despite being younger in recent years:

sam gagner (almost doubled Staal's pts!)
trevor lewis
jan mursak
pat maroon
e. grachev



amazed sometimes how people equate pt production, at any level (though especially Jr), as the be all end all evaluation of a player.

While Toews, Giroux and arguably Backstrom/Kessel have emerged from that draft as somewhat better players, Staal at 3rd overall in that draft wasn't a stretch at the time, nor in hindsight.

if/when he goes to another team, where he isn't behind two "generational" talents like Crosby/Malkin, I have a feeling his stock will shoot up in many peoples eyes.
I think he already shot up his stock after these POs. He had a very good series.

Then again, Bryzgalov was horrible, so he made a lot of players look good too.

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05-13-2012, 11:24 PM
  #311
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
This is a horrible idea, and makes me thankful this fool isn't in charge. Yea let's trade the #3 pick for a defensive center getting 4.5 million and is an UFA after the season, that is slow and injury prone.
He is neither slow or injury prone.

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05-14-2012, 02:41 AM
  #312
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habs need a Big center who can play good defence/offence thats why Pierre talked about staal but that will never happen

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05-14-2012, 05:43 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
With Staal aboard, what would happen to Eller and Desharnais?
You know every has 4 centers, right? For me it's pretty simple, you trade Plekanec and his 5 mil for either a solid prospect or a 1st line left winger. If not than you get Radulov or sign somebody.

xxx-Staal-Gionta
Maxpac-Desharnais-Cole
Bourque-Eller-Leblanc
Moen-White-Saubitz.

That's my team..

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05-14-2012, 06:17 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
This is a horrible idea, and makes me thankful this fool isn't in charge. Yea let's trade the #3 pick for a defensive center getting 4.5 million and is an UFA after the season, that is slow and injury prone.
I agree, this is a move I would like Brian Burke and the Leafs to make!

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05-14-2012, 06:25 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by 24going25 View Post
habs need a Big center who can play good defence/offence thats why Pierre talked about staal but that will never happen
What's wrong with Eller?

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05-14-2012, 06:47 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Staal
Eller/Plekanec (2A/2B)
Desharnais (the rest of the time)

Don't see why that couldn't work for a couple of years. Wingers are the key, but many have been saying that for a while now...
Desharnais below Eller makes no sense.

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05-14-2012, 07:13 AM
  #317
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Really love Staal but I don't think he's capable of leading a team offensively. He's great at what he does but doesn't possess much creativity, at least not what a 1st line centre should be able to do. I wouldn't trade a 3rd overall pick for a 2nd line centre.

However, if you told me there was a way of acquiring Eric Staal without giving up that pick, I would do so then turn around and trade that 3rd for Jordan. Having both on the same team would be special. It would also ensure Jordan stays.


Last edited by le_sean: 05-14-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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05-14-2012, 07:33 AM
  #318
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Desharnais below Eller makes no sense.
Playing Desharnais more than Staal, Plekanec, and Eller moving forward would make no sense to me. All three are better than him, imo.

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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Really love Staal but I don't think he's capable of leading a team offensively.
Don't look now, but he just led a team featuring Crosby and Malkin in goals and points in a playoff round... I thought more people were starting to get a bit of a wake up call as to what Staal "is capable of".

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05-14-2012, 08:07 AM
  #319
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Where are the people who wanted this idiot as gm? Lol

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05-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #320
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Given that we have holes on the wing, I wouldn't be completely averse to trying Eller back on wing either. He hasn't really proven one way or the other what his best utilisation ultimately is... even if he has shown flashes. At any rate, I wouldn't let him be a limiting factor on improving the team... if there was a clear way to improve the team that might involve revisiting the experiment, it is worth revisiting it. Improving the team is the top priority, developing Eller is a complementary-yet-ultimately-lower priority.

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05-14-2012, 08:42 AM
  #321
le_sean
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Don't look now, but he just led a team featuring Crosby and Malkin in goals and points in a playoff round... I thought more people were starting to get a bit of a wake up call as to what Staal "is capable of".
You should know better than to make a conclusion based on a six game series that was a defensive atrocity.

During the season he was 5th on the team in scoring and that's without Crosby who obviously would have had more points.

In fact he's only been 3rd on his team in regular season scoring once in six seasons. How's that for a sample size?

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05-14-2012, 09:37 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Which 1st line players do you have in mind? If Pacioretty and Cole, Staal would do well. On the other hand, taken away from his linemates, Desharnais would sink quite far.
Not necessarily.

If you give DD second-line minutes without first-line wingers, he's going to suffer. But with two tough minutes centers in front of him taking the harder matchups (and hypothetically Staal and Plekanec would be an excellent combo for that), DD could be given very offensive-oriented or very young linemates and get tons of offensive zone starts against weaker competition -- he could produce very well in sheltered minutes even without the redwoods next to him.

Of course, Staal's contract situation makes the entire idea moot, unless Pittsburgh is willing to accept lesser assets than the Habs' first.

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05-14-2012, 09:38 AM
  #323
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
You should know better than to make a conclusion based on a six game series that was a defensive atrocity.

During the season he was 5th on the team in scoring and that's without Crosby who obviously would have had more points.

In fact he's only been 3rd on his team in regular season scoring once in six seasons. How's that for a sample size?
How about four 20+ goal seasons, 3 complete 82 game seasons played, and around 650 cumulative Selke voting points by age 23? I think that one wins.

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05-14-2012, 09:46 AM
  #324
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The consensus is that #3 for J. Staal would be unfavorable. I agree but would feel better if the Pens sweetened the deal with a high draft pick or a promising prospect.

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05-14-2012, 09:48 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
How about four 20+ goal seasons, 3 complete 82 game seasons played, and around 650 cumulative Selke voting points by age 23? I think that one wins.
I like Staal as a player but he clearly benefits the match-ups. Crosby's and Malkin's lines always draw the top 4 Dmans. Staal was good against Philly but he was playing vs Grossmann or Lilja. Being a first/second center means facing stronger opposition. He'd still do good, but I doubt he is what we need in order to win.

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