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2012 Canada-Russia junior summit

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Old
05-12-2012, 06:53 PM
  #26
cska78
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the difference is in the coach - Nemchinov is a big fat hole from a donut, and Bragin can coach. Can't wait for this

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05-12-2012, 06:59 PM
  #27
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The 07 Super Series came at the worst possible time for Russian junior hockey.

While Russia's roster has some pretty well known players now like Voynov, Bobrovsky, Varly, Anisemov, and Dadonov, their only 2 real elite players at the time were Cherapanov and 17 year old Filatov.


This series now will be MUCH tighter

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Old
05-12-2012, 07:42 PM
  #28
Alberta tough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
lets see a Canadian roster prediction...
Rough guess


Rattie Strome Huberdeau
Mackinnon Scheifele Puempel
Di Giuseppe Jenner Shinkaruk
Monahan McNeil Griffith
St Croix

Harrignton Hamilton
Murray Murphy
Percy Ceci
Siemens

Broissoit
Subban

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Old
05-12-2012, 10:49 PM
  #29
JackSlater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta tough View Post
Rough guess


Rattie Strome Huberdeau
Mackinnon Scheifele Puempel
Di Giuseppe Jenner Shinkaruk
Monahan McNeil Griffith
St Croix

Harrignton Hamilton
Murray Murphy
Percy Ceci
Siemens

Broissoit
Subban
That's a stronger team than I was thinking to be honest. I would guess that Danault would make it in a bottom 6 role over some of those guys though. Pretty much every quality player in the age group should be available other than Nugent-Hopkins.

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05-13-2012, 06:19 AM
  #30
Macman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta tough View Post
Rough guess


Rattie Strome Huberdeau
Mackinnon Scheifele Puempel
Di Giuseppe Jenner Shinkaruk
Monahan McNeil Griffith
St Croix

Harrignton Hamilton
Murray Murphy
Percy Ceci
Siemens

Broissoit
Subban
The Hockey Canada story says they're going to carry more than 30 players. Sounds like they'll be moving guys in and out of the lineup each night.

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05-13-2012, 08:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta tough View Post
Rough guess


Rattie Strome Huberdeau
Mackinnon <b>Scheifele</b> Puempel
Di Giuseppe Jenner Shinkaruk
Monahan McNeil Griffith
St Croix

Harrignton Hamilton
Murray Murphy
Percy Ceci
Siemens

Broissoit
Subban
Well, how many Scheifeles do you have in pipe? Each and every time I check Canada's juniour roster some Scheifeles are always there. I'm aware of only one guy who was drafted by Phoenix...

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05-13-2012, 08:58 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ViD View Post
Last two years, Russian juniors were better almost everywhere. Russian selects won 1 CHL Super Series and were really close in the second one. Team Russia defeated Canada twice in WJHC.
And?

Don't forget those series divide the leagues from the Q, the W and the O, leaving Canada only 1/3 of their players available. Imagine Russia only had 1/3 of their available players, then factor that Moscow is roughly 1/3 population of the entire country of Canada. Just putting it in perspective.


The series is good for the game and good for the players on both teams, thats why they do it. Obviously both teams want to win, but the purpose is deeper then that.

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05-13-2012, 08:59 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
Well, how many Scheifeles do you have in pipe? Each and every time I check Canada's juniour roster some Scheifeles are always there. I'm aware of only one guy who was drafted by Phoenix...
Phoenix?

Mark Scheifele was drafted by the Jets last year? So I would think he would still be eligible, depending on his birthdate.

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05-13-2012, 09:06 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Phoenix?

Mark Scheifele was drafted by the Jets last year? So I would think he would still be eligible, depending on his birthdate.
He is eligible. It's for '93s and younger.

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Old
05-13-2012, 09:53 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
And?

Don't forget those series divide the leagues from the Q, the W and the O, leaving Canada only 1/3 of their players available. Imagine Russia only had 1/3 of their available players, then factor that Moscow is roughly 1/3 population of the entire country of Canada. Just putting it in perspective.


The series is good for the game and good for the players on both teams, thats why they do it. Obviously both teams want to win, but the purpose is deeper then that.
And don't forget the last two WJCs...

Russia also didn't send their best to SSS, missing many key players. Last year was completely compromised out of MHL (rus jr. league) players, not many of those made it to the final WJC team, yet they were still very competative at the SSS.

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05-13-2012, 09:54 AM
  #36
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Just for some background behind this. It's to celebrate the 40 years of 1972 Summit Series. Originally Tretiak wanted the National teams to play. Hockey Canada laughed at it, and they agreed to do the U20 - 4 game series.

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05-13-2012, 02:00 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
And don't forget the last two WJCs...

Russia also didn't send their best to SSS, missing many key players. Last year was completely compromised out of MHL (rus jr. league) players, not many of those made it to the final WJC team, yet they were still very competative at the SSS.
Why? Thats their problem..... When Canada sends a watered down roster to the World Championship every year, they don't make excuses... They are often in the finals with their B team.

If you don't send your best eligible, suck it up..

And the past means nothing.... If it did, I'd like to show you 5 consecutive gold medals, twice in two decades.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Just for some background behind this. It's to celebrate the 40 years of 1972 Summit Series. Originally Tretiak wanted the National teams to play. Hockey Canada laughed at it, and they agreed to do the U20 - 4 game series.
Of course, they want it to be competitive!

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05-13-2012, 02:12 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Why? Thats their problem..... When Canada sends a watered down roster to the World Championship every year, they don't make excuses... They are often in the finals with their B team.

If you don't send your best eligible, suck it up..

And the past means nothing.... If it did, I'd like to show you 5 consecutive gold medals, twice in two decades.




Of course, they want it to be competitive!
ah never mind. You obviously didn't understand my response to you saying CHL is split into 3.

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05-13-2012, 05:09 PM
  #39
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Just noticed that this will likely be taking place at the same time as the Ivan Hlinka tournament.
That's kind of disappointing..

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Old
05-13-2012, 06:01 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Just noticed that this will likely be taking place at the same time as the Ivan Hlinka tournament.
That's kind of disappointing..
Wouldn't most of the players be 18-20 anyway?

Also, if we do Canadian roster predictions, they need to be split into three, right? WHL, Q, & OHL.

It's not possible for Mackinnon and Murray (for ex.) to be on the same team, right?

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05-13-2012, 06:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Huge for Nuge View Post
Also, if we do Canadian roster predictions, they need to be split into three, right? WHL, Q, & OHL.

It's not possible for Mackinnon and Murray (for ex.) to be on the same team, right?
This isn't the Subway Series. It's national team vs. national team.

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Old
05-14-2012, 07:54 AM
  #42
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Russian U20 coach, Bragin, may be leaving to coach a club. It's probably not good news for the Russian team

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05-14-2012, 08:14 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Just for some background behind this. It's to celebrate the 40 years of 1972 Summit Series. Originally Tretiak wanted the National teams to play. Hockey Canada laughed at it, and they agreed to do the U20 - 4 game series.
Hi Fulcrum. Do you know if this series is getting any press in Russia and what the reaction has been?

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05-14-2012, 08:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Why? Thats their problem..... When Canada sends a watered down roster to the World Championship every year, they don't make excuses... They are often in the finals with their B team.

If you don't send your best eligible, suck it up..

And the past means nothing.... If it did, I'd like to show you 5 consecutive gold medals, twice in two decades.




Of course, they want it to be competitive!
Fulcrum was responding to a Canadian poster who attempted to downgrade Russia's relative success by saying that Team Russia was a universal all-star team, while the Canadian entries were only representing the 3 CHL leagues. In essence, he was answering a Canadian excuse.

I also disagree wholeheartedly that Canadians don't make excuses over their WC teams not consistently being in the mix for gold. In fact, there is a constant litany of excuses on this board about "best on best," the fact that not all teams have been eliminated from the Stanley Cup, and that a lot of Canadian players are unwilling to play in the WC.

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05-14-2012, 08:49 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
Hi Fulcrum. Do you know if this series is getting any press in Russia and what the reaction has been?
Not to speak for Fulcrum, but I think it is fair to say that there won't be anything near the level of interest in Russia that you will find in Canada. There is not a TSN to hype the series up, and there just isn't the same level of interest in junior hockey as there is in Canada (no country matches Canada for interest in junior hockey).

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05-14-2012, 09:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Fulcrum was responding to a Canadian poster who attempted to downgrade Russia's relative success by saying that Team Russia was a universal all-star team, while the Canadian entries were only representing the 3 CHL leagues. In essence, he was answering a Canadian excuse.

I also disagree wholeheartedly that Canadians don't make excuses over their WC teams not consistently being in the mix for gold. In fact, there is a constant litany of excuses on this board about "best on best," the fact that not all teams have been eliminated from the Stanley Cup, and that a lot of Canadian players are unwilling to play in the WC.
Canadians don't make excuses for the world championship because nobody cares about it... Russia should win, they ice their A team.. Canada uses it mainly as a development tournament to give their young stars international experience and more playing time... If Hockey Canada cared about winning the WC, they'd make choices differently when selecting the team.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Russian team was an all star team while the CHL is divided into 3 league all star teams... This despite Moscow being 1/3 the size of the entire country of Canada....

re; 'best on best' - Nobody here puts much stock in a tournament in which Canada sends their B team. If its best on best, people get behind it... But right now, North Americans are more concerned with the NHL playoffs... So you guys have fun at your world championships... And you'll see the A team in Sochi.

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05-14-2012, 09:41 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Canadians don't make excuses for the world championship because nobody cares about it... Russia should win, they ice their A team.. Canada uses it mainly as a development tournament to give their young stars international experience and more playing time... If Hockey Canada cared about winning the WC, they'd make choices differently when selecting the team.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Russian team was an all star team while the CHL is divided into 3 league all star teams... This despite Moscow being 1/3 the size of the entire country of Canada....

re; 'best on best' - Nobody here puts much stock in a tournament in which Canada sends their B team. If its best on best, people get behind it... But right now, North Americans are more concerned with the NHL playoffs... So you guys have fun at your world championships... And you'll see the A team in Sochi.
Let's not go down this road again. Every country and specially its fans make excuses. It's what we do.

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05-14-2012, 09:43 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Not to speak for Fulcrum, but I think it is fair to say that there won't be anything near the level of interest in Russia that you will find in Canada. There is not a TSN to hype the series up, and there just isn't the same level of interest in junior hockey as there is in Canada (no country matches Canada for interest in junior hockey).
Thanks for that. Has the fact it's going to be held been reported at all?

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05-14-2012, 09:46 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
re; 'best on best' - Nobody here puts much stock in a tournament in which Canada sends their B team. If its best on best, people get behind it... But right now, North Americans are more concerned with the NHL playoffs... So you guys have fun at your world championships... And you'll see the A team in Sochi.
First of all, it's not canada's B team, there are quite a few individuals who would be A team players, then there are quite a few individuals who would be B team players and some prospects, so it's a mixed bag, but saying it's a B team suggests these are the players you would put into your B team if your A team was around, which is simply not the case.

Second of all, all medal contenders at the WC are missing players, some declined, some are still in the playoffs, so like every world championships, it's the best what's available and willing vs the best what's available and willing, it's the same for everyone.

I don't think the rest of the hockey world really gives a rat's ass about what canada follows or not, we are having fun at the world championships each year because it's a quality international hockey(from the QF onwards but also some of the group matches).

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05-14-2012, 10:33 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Canadians don't make excuses for the world championship because nobody cares about it... Russia should win, they ice their A team.. Canada uses it mainly as a development tournament to give their young stars international experience and more playing time... If Hockey Canada cared about winning the WC, they'd make choices differently when selecting the team.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Russian team was an all star team while the CHL is divided into 3 league all star teams... This despite Moscow being 1/3 the size of the entire country of Canada....

re; 'best on best' - Nobody here puts much stock in a tournament in which Canada sends their B team. If its best on best, people get behind it... But right now, North Americans are more concerned with the NHL playoffs... So you guys have fun at your world championships... And you'll see the A team in Sochi.
You did a perfect job of laying out all the reasons why, even if Canada loses the WC, they still win based on "if only this, if only that!" If Canada should win gold, then you can say that even with a fifth-rate team, you are superior to the rest of the world. If you lose, its for all the reasons that you lay out above.

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