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Old
05-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #101
Shareefruck
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To add to the Kesler thing. The year where he got 75 points playing with Raymond and Samuelsson, his powerplay unit outscored the Sedin powerplay unit, and he had the most powerplay points on the team if I'm not mistaken.

So it's fair to say that he deserves individual credit for being great in powerplay situations.

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Old
05-12-2012, 09:57 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
To : Ryan Kesler + Alexander Edler




To : Derek Stepan + Marc Staal + 2012 1st + Christian Thomas/Jesper Fasth

Fair value?


Ryan Kesler would be an ideal player for Tortorella and New York Rangers while Edler would provide a scoring touch from the point which is well needed.

Stepan is a skilled young player who would thrive in a more offensive system than the Rangers. Staal is a premier shutdown D on a great contract. Thomas is a mid prospect. High reward/bust potential. Could turn out to be a great sniper or a bust. Fasth is a real speedy winger that plays for HV71 in Sweden (info/stats: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10967). I myself would personally love to see Fasth in Rangers but you gotta give to get. He has great potential with his speed and hockeysense. He has evolved alot this year. A bad injury (broken ankle) stopped him from playing a full season in the SEL this year. But man did he play good when he did play. Playing with men as a young kid. Real impressive. He even got called up to the national team.

Edler is a RFA and Kesler is on a good deal. Canucks lower their caphit with Staal and Stepan (still on his ELC). With the money the save on the deal they can spend it on some UFA's or whatever they feel like.
ya Canucks would not even look at this trade. Kesler is staying put

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Old
05-13-2012, 01:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Well unless it was guaranteed that the Canucks were going to get one of the better top 6 fowards for one of their goalies, then i may be more open to it.

Personally if that was to happen, I'd rather make it a 3 way where we move one of our goalies to one team, then the offensive player they send us to NYR for Girardi
That's a thought which can be considered with an open mind, but that better be one hell of an offensive player. Girardi is an All Star D, and we are short righties at the moment. He can be moved, IMO, but I want premium like a sniper for him.

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05-13-2012, 01:29 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
Change Thomas to Kreider and switch Staal for Girardi and it's entertaining.

Not nearly as entertaining as that post.
Kreider not going anywhere.

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05-13-2012, 01:35 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Just read through this thread and it seems clear that there's no deal to be made around Kesler, but I thought there might be a potential deal for Dubinsky. What would need to be added in a Dubinsky for Raymond+ deal?
We're not really looking for a Raymond type, but in general, your suggestion is a demand competing with others, and it will have to beat the best proposed deal that teams will offer for Dubinsky.

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05-13-2012, 02:03 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
To : Ryan Kesler + Alexander Edler




To : Derek Stepan + Marc Staal + 2012 1st + Christian Thomas/Jesper Fasth

Fair value?


Ryan Kesler would be an ideal player for Tortorella and New York Rangers while Edler would provide a scoring touch from the point which is well needed.

Stepan is a skilled young player who would thrive in a more offensive system than the Rangers. Staal is a premier shutdown D on a great contract. Thomas is a mid prospect. High reward/bust potential. Could turn out to be a great sniper or a bust. Fasth is a real speedy winger that plays for HV71 in Sweden (info/stats: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10967). I myself would personally love to see Fasth in Rangers but you gotta give to get. He has great potential with his speed and hockeysense. He has evolved alot this year. A bad injury (broken ankle) stopped him from playing a full season in the SEL this year. But man did he play good when he did play. Playing with men as a young kid. Real impressive. He even got called up to the national team.

Edler is a RFA and Kesler is on a good deal. Canucks lower their caphit with Staal and Stepan (still on his ELC). With the money the save on the deal they can spend it on some UFA's or whatever they feel like.
The Canucks are in a win now mode and think too highly of Kesler (wrongly IMO as he is over rated offensively and injury prone) to trade him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier View Post
Really bad for Vancouver. The only way Kesler + Edler are traded, is if we get upgrades in both positions, like Kopitar + Doughty. A late 1st and a decent prospect is not enough to downgrade heavily in both positions.
Okay so the OP's offer wasn't enough in your books but those two for the two Kings man are you smoky some great BC bud or what?

It's not even in the ballpark, at least the Op's offer was legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
So we downgrade big time from Kesler to Stepan, then We downgrade again from Staal to Edler, and all we get is a late 1st and a prospect? Why?

Staal and Stepan for Kesler maybe..
Edler stalled last year and msot teams would rather have Stall and Edler right now. Kesler is a bit over rated and is a different type of player than Stefan but the 2 guys are really close in value over the long term IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Okay. Thought maybe Canucks needed a premier shutdown D like Staal. And I could see Stepan put up 70 points with Canucks. He put up 51 with Rangers, and let's be honest. We're not exactly known for our offense.
Both prospects are worth little except to add depth, Jesper is just too small and Thomas didn't blow away anyone last year in the OHL either.

The Canucks sure could use a guy like Stall, who is a younger and better version of willie Mitchell.

Maybe after next season when Gillis comes to gripes that his core is too old he might make this trade or something like it.

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Old
05-13-2012, 02:09 PM
  #107
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In what world do teams favour the less skilled, more expensive defenseman.

I like Staal, good player, but Edler for him would be ridiculous.

I can't see how a team would move a 49 point dman for a 5 point one and come out feeling better about their team.

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Old
05-13-2012, 02:55 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
In what world do teams favour the less skilled, more expensive defenseman.

I like Staal, good player, but Edler for him would be ridiculous.

I can't see how a team would move a 49 point dman for a 5 point one and come out feeling better about their team.
I'm not defending the idea of Edler for Staal, but this comment is pretty ridiculous, considering that we're talking about defensemen and you're basing your logic entirely around point comparison.

I would take a 5 point version of prime-Adam Foote over a 49 point Bryan McCabe very very easily. I think everybody would.

Heck, not that he would, but if we're talking about a version of Edler that gets 49 points but plays like he did in the playoffs, I'd take Staal over him any day of the week, too.

And I would not be at all surprised if Rangers fans came here reasonably saying that they would not trade Staal for Edler.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 05-13-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old
05-13-2012, 02:59 PM
  #109
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i'd consider an edler for staal swap if our d wasn't completely devoid of puck moving defencemen

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Old
05-13-2012, 03:39 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I think I'll cheer for another team if Staal/Stepan are traded for Kesler. Not a big fan of Kesler and a huge fan of Staal/Stepan.
Wow you are a big time hypocrite.

I recall last season, you were a big kesler fan, and were defending and propping him against kane, why you think he's better than him. Funny how one season changes a fan's mindset.

___

The canucks aren't trading a player who is one year removed from a 40 goal season, selke win, while being solid mostly in the playoffs, and a top pairing 25 yo defenceman, who has no.1 potential for two downgrades. Staal+Stephan for kes maybe fair, but that is something the canucks won't do, and the rangers maybe hestitant due to kesler's injury riddled season.

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05-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Good.

Stepan will outproduce Kesler next year again. Book it.
Outproducing someone who couldn't train all of season missed training camp and the start of the season due to a injury which he played through in the playoffs and still managed to be his team who made it to game 7 of the finals MVP isnt much to be proud of. Kesler is twice the player Stephan is right now and if you disagree you need to get your head checked.

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05-13-2012, 04:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post

Not nearly as entertaining as that post.
Kreider not going anywhere.
Just like Kesler isn't going anywhere.

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Old
05-13-2012, 04:42 PM
  #113
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Just curious why teams suddenly feel Kesler is available, and available cheap at that?

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05-13-2012, 05:37 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Just curious why teams suddenly feel Kesler is available, and available cheap at that?
We got trounced in the first round, a few of our fans wanted to blow up the team, and people think that he is nothing but a diver, whiner and made of glass (at worst) or at best that the 41 goal and 75 point seasons are abhorations, not what he should be capable of healthy.

I mean Rangers fans have put some valuable pieces on the table here, but not the right kind of value if he were to be moved.

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05-13-2012, 11:19 PM
  #115
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What would New York want from Vancouver for Dubinsky?

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Old
05-13-2012, 11:37 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Sayonara77 View Post
Wow you are a big time hypocrite.

I recall last season, you were a big kesler fan, and were defending and propping him against kane, why you think he's better than him. Funny how one season changes a fan's mindset.

___
I knew Kesler was a diving agitator before, but I thought last season would've been the end of it. He really cut down the antics and I became a huge fan that season. Overall, his showing in the playoffs really left a bitter taste in my mouth. He doesn't need to do that crap. It's embarrassing. I cringed when he does that, because he can play much better.

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05-13-2012, 11:40 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bruno Mars View Post
Outproducing someone who couldn't train all of season missed training camp and the start of the season due to a injury which he played through in the playoffs and still managed to be his team who made it to game 7 of the finals MVP isnt much to be proud of. Kesler is twice the player Stephan is right now and if you disagree you need to get your head checked.
Luongo was Canucks MVP, or was it the Sedins, or Kesler, wait.... who was the MVP?

I don't think Kesler is twice the player Stepan is. Stepan has been improving every year since he's been drafted by the Rangers. He is a hard working, skilled player and worked with Zach Parise in the offseason. He is still only 21 years old and has a lot of room to grow. He had a similar PPG to Kesler this year, but he was jumped around the lineup quite a bit. I would not trade him at his bargain EL deal + RFA rights for an often injured and underperforming centerman the past year. Too much of a risk.

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:01 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Luongo was Canucks MVP, or was it the Sedins, or Kesler, wait.... who was the MVP?

I don't think Kesler is twice the player Stepan is. Stepan has been improving every year since he's been drafted by the Rangers. He is a hard working, skilled player and worked with Zach Parise in the offseason. He is still only 21 years old and has a lot of room to grow. He had a similar PPG to Kesler this year, but he was jumped around the lineup quite a bit. I would not trade him at his bargain EL deal + RFA rights for an often injured and underperforming centerman the past year. Too much of a risk.
Depends who you ask. Just like I'm sure Rangers fans can, and probably do rate different players higher then others. My vote is for Luongo this year, with recognition for Schneider, as our goaltending dragged our team unwillingly into the playoffs. Last year, I say it was Kesler, career high in points, doing great on the PP with the Sedins, fewest goals allowed as a team, and he was, 5 on 5, playing with scrubs and Samuelsson. He was our motor. Ask someone else, and they will list Hamhuis, or Edler, or Ehrhoff, or a Sedin, or Burrows...who's the best skater on the Rangers this year? I bet we can find dissenting opinions within the same fan base.

All of that back ground information is nice, but it doesn't change the fact that Kesler, when he's recovered, is better overall until Stepan hits his potential. We don't want to wait that long, we want to win now.

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05-14-2012, 12:05 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Luongo was Canucks MVP, or was it the Sedins, or Kesler, wait.... who was the MVP?

I don't think Kesler is twice the player Stepan is. Stepan has been improving every year since he's been drafted by the Rangers. He is a hard working, skilled player and worked with Zach Parise in the offseason. He is still only 21 years old and has a lot of room to grow. He had a similar PPG to Kesler this year, but he was jumped around the lineup quite a bit. I would not trade him at his bargain EL deal + RFA rights for an often injured and underperforming centerman the past year. Too much of a risk.
I guess its a good think Kesler isnt available.

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05-14-2012, 05:40 AM
  #120
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That's great news since Sather will hang up as soon as he hears McDonagh's name. 1 yr at 1.3M to play 30 MPG shutdown role. Best bang for buck contract in the league next year.
Now you are getting ridiculous. If the Sedins, Kesler or Edler were ever in discussion, then McDonagh would be involved and Sather'd love the idea. New York lacks depth on the left wing and hey, what do you know. Daniel seems pretty good at it. I get it, McDonagh is a fantastic young player but to say New York wouldn't consider moving him for anyone on Vancouver's roster, a team that twice had been ranked the best team in the league, is again, ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post

Not nearly as entertaining as that post.
Kreider not going anywhere.
ITT: Vancouver's best players aren't worth New York's rookies, yet the former isn't the one using laughing smiley faces.

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05-14-2012, 08:54 AM
  #121
bernmeister
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Just like Kesler isn't going anywhere.
No one is saying Kesler is a dump (production/salary/attitude) and will be moved on discount despite off year.

We understand you want and deserve value.
The question is if he were moved, someone would have to pay fair value, or fair value plus a reasonable premium to make it worth moving him. Trades are not done just for the sake of making a trade.

So the question is what is the market for an off year, Kesler, especially when that offness is in part by injury from which it appears he will recover?
Answer is the competitive offers from the market, who will pay the most.
And if that offer is insufficient, Canucks outbid all others by keeping him.

That said, it makes no sense for Rangers to trade Kreider for anyone except in uber-elite package. That's not based on any kind of excessive favoritism. Kreider is a commodity, and theoretically available for trade. But he is AN UNKNOWN commodity. While they could get lucky if they unloaded the kid and he turned out to be a bust --- not likely at all, the greater risk is moving him on an ELC before we get a rough idea of exactly how good he can/will be.

Ergo, no Kreider names in trade unless Stamkos, Malkin, etc. involvled.

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Old
05-14-2012, 08:57 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
....
ITT: Vancouver's best players aren't worth New York's rookies, yet the former isn't the one using laughing smiley faces.
1. Please note my last post above explaining issue on trading Kreider is unknown as to potential.
2. Kreider is not an ordinary rookie. He seems to have HUGE upside. Not accurate/fair to homogenize him as an ordinary, generic rookie.

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Old
05-14-2012, 10:00 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
No one is saying Kesler is a dump (production/salary/attitude) and will be moved on discount despite off year.

We understand you want and deserve value.
The question is if he were moved, someone would have to pay fair value, or fair value plus a reasonable premium to make it worth moving him. Trades are not done just for the sake of making a trade.

So the question is what is the market for an off year, Kesler, especially when that offness is in part by injury from which it appears he will recover?
Answer is the competitive offers from the market, who will pay the most.
And if that offer is insufficient, Canucks outbid all others by keeping him.

That said, it makes no sense for Rangers to trade Kreider for anyone except in uber-elite package. That's not based on any kind of excessive favoritism. Kreider is a commodity, and theoretically available for trade. But he is AN UNKNOWN commodity. While they could get lucky if they unloaded the kid and he turned out to be a bust --- not likely at all, the greater risk is moving him on an ELC before we get a rough idea of exactly how good he can/will be.

Ergo, no Kreider names in trade unless Stamkos, Malkin, etc. involvled.
Well then if Kreider is off the table, then Kesler isn't going anywhere (can take out Thomas/Jesper and the 1st because the Canucks don't want futures for Kesler)


Maybe Stepan, Girardi or McDonagh, a 1st, and Boyle would do Canucks would add Malhotra

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Old
05-14-2012, 01:58 PM
  #124
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What would New York want from Vancouver for Dubinsky?
I asked this question a couple pages back. Most NYR fans feel they'll be one of the front runners to sign all-star American players Suter and Parise, they very well may be on to something. If so, it's likely Dubinsky will be sent somewhere in the West for peanuts merely as a salary dump. Maybe Raymond and a mid-tier prospect for Dubinsky.

If they don't get one of those guys, I think they'll hold on to Dubinsky for another year and give him a chance to rebound.

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Old
05-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
The Canucks are in a win now mode and think too highly of Kesler (wrongly IMO as he is over rated offensively and injury prone) to trade him.


http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/im...shakeshead.gif
Okay so the OP's offer wasn't enough in your books but those two for the two Kings man are you smoky some great BC bud or what?

It's not even in the ballpark, at least the Op's offer was legit.




Edler stalled last year and msot teams would rather have Stall and Edler right now. Kesler is a bit over rated and is a different type of player than Stefan but the 2 guys are really close in value over the long term IMO.



Both prospects are worth little except to add depth, Jesper is just too small and Thomas didn't blow away anyone last year in the OHL either.

The Canucks sure could use a guy like Stall, who is a younger and better version of willie Mitchell.

Maybe after next season when Gillis comes to gripes that his core is too old he might make this trade or something like it.
Great reading comprehension you got there. Kesler is not getting traded, the only way he and Edler get traded is for big upgrades. Maybe read the entire post next time?

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