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NHL Amnesty: Pronger vs Bryz

View Poll Results: NHL Amnesty: Pronger vs Bryz
Pronger 23 27.38%
Bryz 61 72.62%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:02 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
What does anyone here do in net if we amnesty Bryz?
Strap this to Jody Shelley, have him play goal:



Might have to stitch several jerseys together to make them fit over that.

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Strap this to Jody Shelley, have him play goal:



Might have to stitch several jerseys together to make them fit over that.
least the 5hole goals should be reduced, hahahahah....

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Old
05-09-2012, 07:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Yeah, the only hope of moving Bryz is if he goes to the KHL
I pray every night

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05-09-2012, 08:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
another intresting thing we can do is Trade one of the contracts with a player and/or picks to a team that doesnt have an amnesty candidate such as the Oilers who will then use their amnesty on that player.
The Oilers say no thank you. We have Horcoff to get rid of. 5.5M*3YRS

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05-09-2012, 08:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Yeah, the only hope of moving Bryz is if he goes to the KHL
Only if he agrees to waive his NMC.

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05-14-2012, 07:55 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by FlyersCup08 View Post
Bryz, Pronger will be on LTIR and have no cap hit anyways.
This. Even if Pronger "retires", they won't make it official, he will sit on LTIR for the benefit of the team's capspace, and his bank account.

As long as Pronger recognizes he should not put himself at risk anymore by trying to come back, going in and out of the line-up, this is a blessing in disguise...

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05-14-2012, 09:32 AM
  #82
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This is a tricky situation:

Arguments for Pronger:
  1. Contract was a mistake. Literally. Team thought the 35+ shouldn't have applied.
  2. He's got Severe PCS. Even if he returns (which is unlikely), he's 1 hit from being wasted
  3. Before injury, he had lost a step. While his game doesn't rely on speed, he didn't really have much room to give in that area either

Arguments against Pronger
  1. He's the Flyers Captain. What message does that send?
  2. He is probably one of the greatest playoff performers in the history of the NHL and a true difference maker for a team that expects to make the playoffs each year
  3. He's a veteran leader on a young team
  4. Stanley Cup Winner

Arguments for Bryz
  1. Contract looks brutal after an up and down first season
  2. Multiple years of several mediocre (at best) playoffs. Below average to bad against Pittsburgh. Decent to Pretty good against New Jersey.
  3. Personality not well suited to Philadelphia and its fickle fanbase
  4. Not sure how he fits in the clubhouse

Arguments against Bryz
  1. Played great in the second half. If you paired a similar second half to his first half, he justifies his deal for the immediate future of a long, long deal
  2. What are the alternatives? Under the last amnesty, a player against whom you used the clause could not be resigned. Bryz may not be what we hoped for, but he's clearly better than Bob and very likely better than the guys we'll be looking at elsewhere.

I personally hope they do what they did in the NBA and allow a slightly larger window (into the subsequent offseason) to use the amnesty. That would give us 1 additional year to evaluate both players. If not, you have to wait as long as possible for the situation to clarify itself. If some other goaltender becomes available, then you probably have to consider it, but I don't see the utility in taking a step back in the goal going next season. I expect Bryz to more closely resemble the second half Bryz than first half Bryz and be a top 8-15 Goaltender next season. Long term the deal remains bad, but I tend not to even think about the team 5 years down the road.... by then, it's entirely possible another CBA negotiation is happening.


Last edited by Broad Street Elite: 05-14-2012 at 09:45 AM.
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Old
05-14-2012, 09:44 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
This is a tricky situation:

Arguments for Pronger:
  1. Contract was a mistake. Literally. Team thought the 35+ shouldn't have applied.
  2. He's got Severe PCS. Even if he returns (which is unlikely), he's 1 hit from being wasted
  3. Before injury, he had lost a step. While his game doesn't rely on speed, he didn't really have much room to give in that area either

I personally hope they do what they did in the NBA and allow a slightly larger window (into the subsequent offseason) to use the amnesty. That would give us 1 additional year to evaluate both players. If not, you have to wait as long as possible for the situation to clarify itself. If some other goaltender becomes available, then you probably have to consider it, but I don't see the utility in taking a step back in the goal going next season. I expect Bryz to more closely resemble the second half Bryz than first half Bryz and be a top 8-15 Goaltender next season. Long term the deal remains bad, but I tend not to even think about the team 5 years down the road.... by then, it's entirely possible another CBA negotiation is happening.

Arguments against Pronger
  1. He's the Flyers Captain. What message does that send?
  2. He is probably one of the greatest playoff performers in the history of the NHL and a true difference maker for a team that expects to make the playoffs each year
  3. He's a veteran leader on a young team
  4. Stanley Cup Winner

Arguments for Bryz
  1. Contract looks brutal after an up and down first season
  2. Multiple years of several mediocre (at best) playoffs. Below average to bad against Pittsburgh. Decent to Pretty good against New Jersey.
  3. Personality not well suited to Philadelphia and its fickle fanbase
  4. Not sure how he fits in the clubhouse

Arguments against Bryz
  1. Played great in the second half. If you paired a similar second half to his first half, he justifies his deal for the immediate future of a long, long deal
  2. What are the alternatives? Under the last amnesty, a player against whom you used the clause could not be resigned. Bryz may not be what we hoped for, but he's clearly better than Bob and very likely better than the guys we'll be looking at elsewhere.
Very good points. For some reason I feel like they will have to use it on pronger unless he makes a magical comeback somehow which I don't see happening, but if he should play again, I would have to think about using it on Danny b......I mean he isn't worth 6.5 million, he's good in playoffs and quite average in the regular season

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:03 AM
  #84
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Now this is just dumb...Flyers fans want to get rid of Bryz AFTER 1 YEAR.

ONE YEAR!

We can decide he won't be worth his 8 year contract in 1 year? Really? I mean jeez at least give him another year to decide. Come on. Not to mention, does that really help anything?

Doing it now? Do you think ANY DECENT GOALIE in his right mind would come play here? Come down to earth. The guy had a rough year. Our fanbase alone is tough to adapt to as a goalie, let alone all the media attention, carousel defense, etc - it was his very first year in a city like Philly.

Sheesh. Imagine if all of you lost your careers based on your first year of work in an office? Sure, you may get bad performance reviews but as everyone in every other career field knows, it takes time to adapt and settle in to be successful.

You would rather ship off our first good goalie in ages after one year then buy out a guy who will probably never play hockey again.

I am a Flyers fan and this poll makes me not want to admit it.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:37 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Now this is just dumb...Flyers fans want to get rid of Bryz AFTER 1 YEAR.

ONE YEAR!

We can decide he won't be worth his 8 year contract in 1 year? Really? I mean jeez at least give him another year to decide. Come on. Not to mention, does that really help anything?

Doing it now? Do you think ANY DECENT GOALIE in his right mind would come play here? Come down to earth. The guy had a rough year. Our fanbase alone is tough to adapt to as a goalie, let alone all the media attention, carousel defense, etc - it was his very first year in a city like Philly.

Sheesh. Imagine if all of you lost your careers based on your first year of work in an office? Sure, you may get bad performance reviews but as everyone in every other career field knows, it takes time to adapt and settle in to be successful.

You would rather ship off our first good goalie in ages after one year then buy out a guy who will probably never play hockey again.

I am a Flyers fan and this poll makes me not want to admit it.
Alright come on now....not want to admit, that's being more harsh then everyone is on bryz. I am one if those bryz supporters, I know guys, I'm crazyyyyyyyy. But I have a feeling he will return to vezna finalist form next season and shut everyone up.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:50 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Now this is just dumb...Flyers fans want to get rid of Bryz AFTER 1 YEAR.

ONE YEAR!

We can decide he won't be worth his 8 year contract in 1 year? Really? I mean jeez at least give him another year to decide. Come on. Not to mention, does that really help anything?

Doing it now? Do you think ANY DECENT GOALIE in his right mind would come play here? Come down to earth. The guy had a rough year. Our fanbase alone is tough to adapt to as a goalie, let alone all the media attention, carousel defense, etc - it was his very first year in a city like Philly.

Sheesh. Imagine if all of you lost your careers based on your first year of work in an office? Sure, you may get bad performance reviews but as everyone in every other career field knows, it takes time to adapt and settle in to be successful.

You would rather ship off our first good goalie in ages after one year then buy out a guy who will probably never play hockey again.

I am a Flyers fan and this poll makes me not want to admit it.
The thread is about an Amnesty clause, which if it exists at all, will be for this year and this year only. That is the only reason we're having this debate. It is basically a debate about the likelyhood that Bryz becomes the goalie we all thought he would be, or if we're stuck with a mediocre goalie for 8 more years. If this were any other year and the CBA wasn't about to expire, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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Old
05-14-2012, 11:56 AM
  #87
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can't buy out Pronger if he isnt medically cleared to play

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Now this is just dumb...Flyers fans want to get rid of Bryz AFTER 1 YEAR.

ONE YEAR!

We can decide he won't be worth his 8 year contract in 1 year? Really? I mean jeez at least give him another year to decide. Come on. Not to mention, does that really help anything?

Doing it now? Do you think ANY DECENT GOALIE in his right mind would come play here? Come down to earth. The guy had a rough year. Our fanbase alone is tough to adapt to as a goalie, let alone all the media attention, carousel defense, etc - it was his very first year in a city like Philly.

Sheesh. Imagine if all of you lost your careers based on your first year of work in an office? Sure, you may get bad performance reviews but as everyone in every other career field knows, it takes time to adapt and settle in to be successful.

You would rather ship off our first good goalie in ages after one year then buy out a guy who will probably never play hockey again.

I am a Flyers fan and this poll makes me not want to admit it.
how is this situation any different then say Zherdev.. people only gave him part of a single season before saying get rid of him.. im not saying he was ever gunna be "the guy" here, or even admit to liking him all that much, but opinions form quickly and most times your initial gut reaction to a player is the correct one..

i say the Bryz we saw this year is the guy you would see throuout an 8-9 year stint.. which if it comes to pass, is def. NOT what Homer paid for..


simple as that..

amnesty him and try again either gonig back to lower $$ goalies or spend the $$$ and do a little more godam research this time..

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Old
05-14-2012, 12:17 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
how is this situation any different then say Zherdev.. people only gave him part of a single season before saying get rid of him.. im not saying he was ever gunna be "the guy" here, or even admit to liking him all that much, but opinions form quickly and most times your initial gut reaction to a player is the correct one..

i say the Bryz we saw this year is the guy you would see throuout an 8-9 year stint.. which if it comes to pass, is def. NOT what Homer paid for..


simple as that..

amnesty him and try again either gonig back to lower $$ goalies or spend the $$$ and do a little more godam research this time..
I remember a lot of fans on this very board crying and complaining about Briere when he first came here. Personally I think he turned out quite well. Of course I was also a supporter of him...

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05-14-2012, 12:45 PM
  #90
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So you work in California for a few years in a career...say an engineer, manager of some sort, etc.

In light of an opportunity to move 3000 miles to say New York, in the same job field but a new office and city - maybe New York, you go.

You like your new office, and plan to stay in your career but you have some struggles adapting your first year there. Should you be fired?

It's the same basic concept.

It's not his fault he was offered such a long contract. Is it a bit much? yes. But, who gave it to him?

Now we want to get out of the contract. Do you think it would be fair, if it were you?

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05-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #91
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as in any highly paid position.. that job comes with expectations..

if you arent meeting them you better expect to answer for it or get replaced outrite..

this isnt a flipping burgers job at the local Mcds..

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Old
05-14-2012, 01:17 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
So you work in California for a few years in a career...say an engineer, manager of some sort, etc.

In light of an opportunity to move 3000 miles to say New York, in the same job field but a new office and city - maybe New York, you go.

You like your new office, and plan to stay in your career but you have some struggles adapting your first year there. Should you be fired?

It's the same basic concept.

It's not his fault he was offered such a long contract. Is it a bit much? yes. But, who gave it to him?

Now we want to get out of the contract. Do you think it would be fair, if it were you?
Analogies don't really work here...

Bottom line: Top performers are paid for results, not to have excuses made for their lack of production.

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05-14-2012, 01:50 PM
  #93
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Analogies don't really work here...

Bottom line: Top performers are paid for results, not to have excuses made for their lack of production.
Ah yes, because ONE YEAR is enough time to adequately determine how Bryz will be as a goalie in this city.

No wonder we have had zero luck with goalies, everyone expects things to happen at in an instant.

It doesn't matter how much you make, does that change all other elements? Money cancels out adapting to a new city, new team, new fanbase?

I love how we are so quick to judge but none of us intend to walk in anyone else's shoes.

Let's buy him out now. Let's see if there is a single quality goaltender in the NHL that would want to come here after giving this guy 1 year to adapt. Let's see.

It's like Flyers fans want goalies to fail, if they didn't then no one would have their favorite scapegoat.

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05-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Now this is just dumb...Flyers fans want to get rid of Bryz AFTER 1 YEAR.

ONE YEAR!

We can decide he won't be worth his 8 year contract in 1 year? Really? I mean jeez at least give him another year to decide. Come on. Not to mention, does that really help anything?
.
You don't even need a year to know he wouldn't be worth it. He is signed through the age of 39. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he isn't going to be playing at a high level until he is 39. Even a Hall of Fame talent like Brodeur was no longer the same goalie at 39.

I do think he will be better next season, but realistically you might only get 3-4 great years out of him at most.

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05-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #95
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Ah yes, because ONE YEAR is enough time to adequately determine how Bryz will be as a goalie in this city.

No wonder we have had zero luck with goalies, everyone expects things to happen at in an instant.

It doesn't matter how much you make, does that change all other elements? Money cancels out adapting to a new city, new team, new fanbase?

I love how we are so quick to judge but none of us intend to walk in anyone else's shoes.

Let's buy him out now. Let's see if there is a single quality goaltender in the NHL that would want to come here after giving this guy 1 year to adapt. Let's see.

It's like Flyers fans want goalies to fail, if they didn't then no one would have their favorite scapegoat.
course the flip side of that arguement is that its somehow ok to come to Philly and play below ave. cuz the (some of the )fan base thinks its ok..

well its not ok unless ur paid a bottom feeder money..

sorry but in a cap era game yes you are paid for instant results. hell its not as if Bryz is a freshman like bob was.. that would be different..

Bryz was supposed to be a known commodity.. instead we got far less then we paid for.. simple as that.

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05-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #96
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You don't even need a year to know he wouldn't be worth it. He is signed through the age of 39. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he isn't going to be playing at a high level until he is 39. Even a Hall of Fame talent like Brodeur was no longer the same game at 39.

I do think he will be better next season, but realistically you might only get 3-4 great years out of him at most.
Actually, he's signed til he's 40.

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05-14-2012, 02:16 PM
  #97
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Actually, he's signed til he's 40.
Yeah well, I will say it again, Homer is the dude that marries that hot, easy girl. Everyone else just sleeps with her.

Can't blame Bryz for the terms of the contract.

Homer signs everyone for life, even tho he does trade some of them away.

If everyone KNOWS (from gut instinct, etc) that this one year has shown how Bryz is consistently, then we have a lot of new hockey fans.

Sure his last few playoff series haven't been stellar but like all of us, Homer knew that too. Homer knew we need to win a cup. Homer signed bryz.

All other signs point to Bryz being a great goalie, this year being the exception to the rule. If everyone thinks they have seen all they need to see in one year, perhaps our fanbase isn't as hockey-smart as we like to claim.

He was beyond stellar in previous years. The first time I watched him play in Anaheim, I was instantly impressed.

To credit myself (even minorly) - I am very critical of goalies. In fact, I didn't know if Quick was really good or really lucky (despite what everyone said) until this playoff season.

The first time I saw Lundqvist play I knew he would be the next Brodeur (in terms of success, not style). I never thought Vokoun was any good, or Nabakov and I am underwhelmbed by Kipresoff.

Despite all of my criticisms of goalies that most deem to be very good, I believed Bryz was one of the most impressive and one of the more technically-sound goalies. I hoped my Flyers one day would have my three fave players (Pronger, Bryz and LeCavalier). We have 2 of 3 (tho not looking bright for Pronger).

One of the only positions I have ever found myself to be most critical of because it's my fave position in the sport, is goalies. Was Bryz the goalie I am talking about this year?

No. But I believe he is a great goalie and I think one day most people will eat their words. If I am wrong and Bryz looks the same or worse than this year, I welcome you all to PM me, email me and reply to me with hate mail.

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05-14-2012, 02:20 PM
  #98
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I remember a lot of fans on this very board crying and complaining about Briere when he first came here. Personally I think he turned out quite well. Of course I was also a supporter of him...
Well the Briere contract wasn't the outright disaster that some of the contracts signed that summer ended up being, but he has certainly been overpaid. He got paid after a 95 point season and hasn't come close since. He has experienced a decline almost every year here. He is a disaster in his own end and and he takes too many careless penalties. He has been our highest paid player, but at most he's been our 4th or 5th most important player most years.

The only reason his contract doesn't face more scrutiny is because people only care about the few weeks a year that he does show up.

He is a decent player, but at $6.5M? That money could be spent wiser.

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05-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #99
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this shouldnt even be a discussion. there is no way they amnesty pronger. hell be LTIR until the contract is up, just like lappy, and thats it. save your amnesty for someone else.

lock it up

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05-14-2012, 02:29 PM
  #100
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forgot Briere in your poll options.

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