So you work in California for a few years in a career...say an engineer, manager of some sort, etc.
In light of an opportunity to move 3000 miles to say New York, in the same job field but a new office and city - maybe New York, you go.
You like your new office, and plan to stay in your career but you have some struggles adapting your first year there. Should you be fired?
It's the same basic concept.
It's not his fault he was offered such a long contract. Is it a bit much? yes. But, who gave it to him?
Now we want to get out of the contract. Do you think it would be fair, if it were you?
There is nothing unfair about Holmgren choosing to get rid of a contract that may hinder the team long term. You don't manage to spare someone's feelings. You do what needs to bet done to set up your team for short term and long term success.
In two years time people aren't going to be so fond of bloated contracts like Bryzgalov and Briere's when Holmgren has to find out a way to pay Giroux, Couturier, Read, Schenn, and Mezaros. How is everyone going to feel when you have to lose one of them or the quality young talent that surrounds them because Holmgren chose to overpay players in their (or headed to their) decline years?
There is nothing unfair about Holmgren choosing to get rid of a contract that may hinder the team long term. You don't manage to spare someone's feelings. You do what needs to bet done to set up your team for short term and long term success.
In two years time people aren't going to be so fond of bloated contracts like Bryzgalov and Briere's when Holmgren has to find out a way to pay Giroux, Couturier, Read, Schenn, and Mezaros. How is everyone going to feel when you have to lose one of them or the quality young talent that surrounds them because Holmgren chose to overpay players in their (or headed to their) decline years?
Even worse.
I feel like giving up on a guy that has the skillset to be a number one goalie after one year is a bad idea.
I can't imagine thinking otherwise.
Where do you go from there? Bank on drafting a late first round goalie in the near future? Let's be honest - we haven't really helped our cause in courting goalies. Leighton going AWOL after having a goalie carousel - then we sign a guy to a big, long contract to show the NHL that we are serious about having a real goalie only to drop him after one year.
If I am a goalie, I opt to play anywhere else first.
I feel like giving up on a guy that has the skillset to be a number one goalie after one year is a bad idea.
I can't imagine thinking otherwise.
Where do you go from there? Bank on drafting a late first round goalie in the near future? Let's be honest - we haven't really helped our cause in courting goalies. Leighton going AWOL after having a goalie carousel - then we sign a guy to a big, long contract to show the NHL that we are serious about having a real goalie only to drop him after one year.
If I am a goalie, I opt to play anywhere else first.
There are plenty of goalies that have the skill set to be a #1 goalie. There is nothing special about Bryzgalov that we can't find elsewhere. He's not elite.
Most people consider Niemi mediocre but Bryz isn't any better.
What makes Bryz so great that makes him deserving of a franchise contract? Niemi was only signed to a 4 year deal worth $3.8M a year and he has actually won a Cup.
If there is am amnesty clause I dump Bryz and sign someone to be a cheap stop gap. We have Bob and Hovinen in the system. Next year's free agent class will be better anyway.
Well the Briere contract wasn't the outright disaster that some of the contracts signed that summer ended up being, but he has certainly been overpaid. He got paid after a 95 point season and hasn't come close since. He has experienced a decline almost every year here. He is a disaster in his own end and and he takes too many careless penalties. He has been our highest paid player, but at most he's been our 4th or 5th most important player most years.
The only reason his contract doesn't face more scrutiny is because people only care about the few weeks a year that he does show up.
He is a decent player, but at $6.5M? That money could be spent wiser.
Oh I don't totally disagree with you that Briere might be slightly overpaid...but that's a different topic.
I was just responding to the other posters comment that initial reactions are correct ones. I was simply saying that the reaction of many (and there were A LOT) of people claiming how useless Briere was, which has proven many times (especially during the most season) to be complete BS. The rest of what you said about the lack of defensive effort and penalty taking was something that we were well aware of (or at least should have been...it's not like it was a secret). Regardless, it's what came with the package, and therefore what we bought into.
In essence I was trying to make the point that initial gut reactions being true can be complete BS...especially around here.
There are plenty of goalies that have the skill set to be a #1 goalie. There is nothing special about Bryzgalov that we can't find elsewhere. He's not elite.
Most people consider Niemi mediocre but Bryz isn't any better.
What makes Bryz so great that makes him deserving of a franchise contract? Niemi was only signed to a 4 year deal worth $3.8M a year and he has actually won a Cup.
If there is am amnesty clause I dump Bryz and sign someone to be a cheap stop gap. We have Bob and Hovinen in the system. Next year's free agent class will be better anyway.
Ah yes, cheap stop gap. Is that not what we have been playing with up until this year? I mean, we are fans not owners or GMs. Could it be possible that Homer and Snider know a little better what a quality goalie is than some of the posters on here?
The world is not black and white. It's not oh well the goalie is to fault, let's dump him.
We obv have been trying to go on a serious cup run and in the process we disassembled some of our peices, and brought in a ton of new players.
We overhauled our goaltending, we have a good goalie. We need to do some tweaking to our D, let the offense mature a bit and I think we will be okay.
Bryz isn't the sole reason we are no longer in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks so has lost their mind. You can't put a bandaid over a bullet wound.
In other words, our half-healthy D and inability to match systems is why we are at home.
I love how people make the argument that Bryz was good in Phoenix bc of the system. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean our system is failing? Not our goalie?
Ah yes, cheap stop gap. Is that not what we have been playing with up until this year? I mean, we are fans not owners or GMs. Could it be possible that Homer and Snider know a little better what a quality goalie is than some of the posters on here?
The world is not black and white. It's not oh well the goalie is to fault, let's dump him.
We obv have been trying to go on a serious cup run and in the process we disassembled some of our peices, and brought in a ton of new players.
We overhauled our goaltending, we have a good goalie. We need to do some tweaking to our D, let the offense mature a bit and I think we will be okay.
Bryz isn't the sole reason we are no longer in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks so has lost their mind. You can't put a bandaid over a bullet wound.
In other words, our half-healthy D and inability to match systems is why we are at home.
I love how people make the argument that Bryz was good in Phoenix bc of the system. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean our system is failing? Not our goalie?
Owners and GMs are constantly making mistake with contracts. It's laughable to say maybe they know better when there are plenty examples of them not knowing any better.
This isn't about blaming Bryzgalov for the Flyers exit this year. It's about whether his contract is going to be problematic going forward. He may not always be this bad, but it's a safe bet that he isn't going to be playing at a high level until he is 40 due to the fact that all players decline as they age.
If Bryzgalov was a great goalie due to Phoenix's system that proves he is not an elite goalie worthy of a franchise level contract. Elite goalies don't need a system to make them.
Ah yes, cheap stop gap. Is that not what we have been playing with up until this year? I mean, we are fans not owners or GMs. Could it be possible that Homer and Snider know a little better what a quality goalie is than some of the posters on here?
The world is not black and white. It's not oh well the goalie is to fault, let's dump him.
We obv have been trying to go on a serious cup run and in the process we disassembled some of our peices, and brought in a ton of new players.
We overhauled our goaltending, we have a good goalie. We need to do some tweaking to our D, let the offense mature a bit and I think we will be okay.
Bryz isn't the sole reason we are no longer in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks so has lost their mind. You can't put a bandaid over a bullet wound.
In other words, our half-healthy D and inability to match systems is why we are at home.
I love how people make the argument that Bryz was good in Phoenix bc of the system. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean our system is failing? Not our goalie?
You can't put all the blame on Bryz but he's looked more like part of the problem than the solution. I realize that stats can be misleading but Bryz's issues go way past the numbers. Just the way he looked on a lot of his goals made you wonder how this guy is even in the NHL.
Any plug-in goalie would have a difficult time putting up good numbers in our current system. The problem is Bryz isn't supposed to be held to the standard of a plug-in goalie and even if he was he would still be coming up short. He has failed to make saves that replacement level goalies would be making and even created a lot of his own problems with terrible puck movement decisions and spotty rebound control.
A stop-gap goalie is not a realistic option for a team that wants to be a serious Stanley Cup contender, but is it really a worse option than using a guy who is going to be giving you similar if not worse production, but at a 5.66 million dollar cap hit, just for the sake of stability?
I think bryz will be much better this upcoming season, I can't really back that up, all I have is hope, and whether you guys like it or not he's our goalie
Ah yes, cheap stop gap. Is that not what we have been playing with up until this year? I mean, we are fans not owners or GMs. Could it be possible that Homer and Snider know a little better what a quality goalie is than some of the posters on here?
Ah, glad we're back to the old fans shouldn't question professionals talk. I missed those days...
btw, what in the Flyer's history of goaltending in the last 20 years that suggests they are beyond questioning from the fans?
Ah, glad we're back to the old fans shouldn't question professionals talk. I missed those days...
btw, what in the Flyer's history of goaltending in the last 20 years that suggests they are beyond questioning from the fans?
Not saying that...just saying why do we dismiss Bryz as a capable goalie after 1 year. Us and Vancouver are easily the two hardest cities to be goalies in. Big adjustment for a guy.
I think people should exert patience. If anyone watched hockey in the past or saw Bryz play previously, it is more likely that he will be a good goalie than a bad one.
Not saying that...just saying why do we dismiss Bryz as a capable goalie after 1 year. Us and Vancouver are easily the two hardest cities to be goalies in. Big adjustment for a guy.
I think people should exert patience. If anyone watched hockey in the past or saw Bryz play previously, it is more likely that he will be a good goalie than a bad one.
Philly n Vancouver ???
no way..
montreal is WAY over both those 2 cities combined.. and i'd add Toronto above Vancouver for sure aswell.
montreal is truely the least pleasant place to be a goalie.. even when you do well the crowd is ready to attack you, hahah
I would love to see Bryz get amnestied. He just comes off as such a sulking loser. He's mentally fragile, and would rather make excuses for his poor play this year than react like a true competitor and say I have to be better. That said, is Snider really going to pay 40+ million (or whatever the balance is if another team signs him) to a guy who isn't employed by the team? God, what a terrible contract.
The thread is about an Amnesty clause, which if it exists at all, will be for this year and this year only. That is the only reason we're having this debate. It is basically a debate about the likelyhood that Bryz becomes the goalie we all thought he would be, or if we're stuck with a mediocre goalie for 8 more years. If this were any other year and the CBA wasn't about to expire, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Its not even if he is the goaltender TODAY that we thought he would be, its what he will be in 5 years...with 3 years to still go.
I don't have a problem with Bryz's play this season, my cutting him loose would have little to do with performance, I simply don't want the years on his contract.
With Pronger, we have options. With Bryz we have none, unless he gets hurt.
That said, is Snider really going to pay 40+ million to a guy who isn't employed by the team?
I was just going to post the same point. I think people don't realize that the amnestied contract still needs to be paid even though it's off your books. It will never happen. Which makes Briere's remaining 12m, and bigger cap hit, a little more likely for a buyout. (but still won't happen)
We did it with Mike Rathje for 5 years I believe, so it's not hard to think we could do it again with Pronger.
We did it with Rathje for 2 years. After that we just stashed the contract in the minors. And Rathje was actually trying to comeback during those 2 years, he wasn't just pretending.
Ah yes, cheap stop gap. Is that not what we have been playing with up until this year? I mean, we are fans not owners or GMs. Could it be possible that Homer and Snider know a little better what a quality goalie is than some of the posters on here?
The world is not black and white. It's not oh well the goalie is to fault, let's dump him.
We obv have been trying to go on a serious cup run and in the process we disassembled some of our peices, and brought in a ton of new players.
We overhauled our goaltending, we have a good goalie. We need to do some tweaking to our D, let the offense mature a bit and I think we will be okay.
Bryz isn't the sole reason we are no longer in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks so has lost their mind. You can't put a bandaid over a bullet wound.
In other words, our half-healthy D and inability to match systems is why we are at home.
I love how people make the argument that Bryz was good in Phoenix bc of the system. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean our system is failing? Not our goalie?
So dumping Bryz's contract would be all business and we shouldn't care about his feelings..while the GM backing out on Carter and Richards was a jerk move and their feelings should have been considered and their reactions to being traded were understandable?
While I agree that Bryz's contract is not ideal and have my concerns..I don't feel it's rational to be discussing his ouster so soon. Give the dude another year and then yeah if he is mediocre again and there is an amnesty opportunity then it should be considered. I have no qualms about business decisions like that and I don't discriminate. Heck if Couturier became a bum for some reason I would lobby to have him shipped off if it meant the team could improve itself (addition by subtraction or otherwise) Right now this whole discussion is a bit irrationally premature and there is an element of fad hate with some....
