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Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

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05-14-2012, 01:22 PM
  #426
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Wasn't the league average sv.% abnormally high this year? Still, without Vokoun they could have been even worse off, potentially.
Ballbusting not directed at you clearly.....

No no...clearly Vokoun was a Vezina candidate singlehandedly carrying the team to new heights.

And you're right they could have been worse. Sadly they were only as bad as their worst record in the last 5 years.

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05-14-2012, 01:28 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Ballbusting not directed at you clearly.....

No no...clearly Vokoun was a Vezina candidate singlehandedly carrying the team to new heights.

And you're right they could have been worse. Sadly they were only as bad as their worst record in the last 5 years.
Unless you take the position that they had a better alternative available (and that's a position that could probably be argued, no doubt, if you had a lot of faith in Holtby or think Neuvirth responded too poorly to the signing) then the signing was good. Even if it's Vokoun's worst year, if his worst year is better than the alternatives then you take what you can get.

If they had no home-run options, then an underwhelming one is a good signing if it's cheap.

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05-14-2012, 01:38 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Unless you take the position that they had a better alternative available (and that's a position that could probably be argued, no doubt, if you had a lot of faith in Holtby or think Neuvirth responded too poorly to the signing) then the signing was good. Even if it's Vokoun's worst year, if his worst year is better than the alternatives then you take what you can get.

If they had no home-run options, then an underwhelming one is a good signing if it's cheap.
And it was 1 freaking year...I have zero problem with the TV signing.

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05-14-2012, 01:41 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Generally positive but to recap:

1- Brouwer - LOVED it. Exactly the kind of player we needed.

2- Hamrlik - Didn't like it. We need a more physical dman in that slot. Our only true mean physical D was Erskine and he is a 6/7

3 - Vokoun - Never a huge fan BUT at that price it was a no brainer. Good move.

4 - Ward - OK. Not as physical player as I wanted. Would have prefered a 3/4 line agitator type.

Overall not bad...BUT..

Didn't get a 2C and didn't replace Tinordi yet again.
In retrospect, Hammer was a good pickup.

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05-14-2012, 01:42 PM
  #430
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When Dale took over we were giving up 3 goals per game. It was easy to see the goalies were not getting it done to me. Quite possibly, Tivo's poor play may have contributed to us going into a defensive shell. I dont credit him for making the playoffs, as we became more a team; again maybe in part because of him. I can't even remember the last time I saw him play - had to be 2 months now. His S% didnt cut it for me, the eye test, and seeing his 5 hole issues and blaming others for loses, said more to me.

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05-14-2012, 01:46 PM
  #431
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Bruins fan here; haven't read all the posts in this thread but my initial response to those who would clamor to fire your GM is: Why on Earth would you do that?

I think the Caps have an excellent tandem in Leonsis and McPhee. In fact, I think Leonsis is the best owner in hockey; very supporting in word and deed of the Caps; attending so many home games, shelling out $$$.

Getting a Cup, particuarly in this paritized league, requires skill and talent (which so many teams have) and a bit of luck. It took my Bruins 40 years to win their latest Cup. Caps have nothing to be ashamed of this season.

While Bodreau was an abysmal coach, IMO, Hunter was very good. I know he's stepping down to run his OHL team, but the Caps' biggest need is at head coach and making a few deals in the offseason to address guys like Semin, and maybe Green, who have value but have underperformed.

Like all NHL teams, the Caps have a few problems to address. The owner and GM, though, aren't among them.

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05-14-2012, 01:54 PM
  #432
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People aren't really arguing except one individual who is trying to make a point in hindsight.

There no was way of telling that the Vokoun deal would've turned out the way it did. Everyone who is not a Vokoun hater would've made the same call 1000/1000 times. $1.5m for what was thought of at the time, one of the better goalies in the league.

Keep in mind Holtby's call up was circumstantial. They had no choice.

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05-14-2012, 01:55 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by TheReal13Linseman View Post
Bruins fan here; haven't read all the posts in this thread but my initial response to those who would clamor to fire your GM is: Why on Earth would you do that?

I think the Caps have an excellent tandem in Leonsis and McPhee. In fact, I think Leonsis is the best owner in hockey; very supporting in word and deed of the Caps; attending so many home games, shelling out $$$.

Getting a Cup, particuarly in this paritized league, requires skill and talent (which so many teams have) and a bit of luck. It took my Bruins 40 years to win their latest Cup. Caps have nothing to be ashamed of this season.

While Bodreau was an abysmal coach, IMO, Hunter was very good. I know he's stepping down to run his OHL team, but the Caps' biggest need is at head coach and making a few deals in the offseason to address guys like Semin, and maybe Green, who have value but have underperformed.

Like all NHL teams, the Caps have a few problems to address. The owner and GM, though, aren't among them.
Bollocks.

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05-14-2012, 01:56 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
In retrospect, Hammer was a good pickup.
He sure played well. No debating that.

But still...we lack "Tinordi" on the back end and have for some great amount of time.

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05-14-2012, 01:59 PM
  #435
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Fatass wasn't a bad coach... this team really just isn't that good.

They remind me of a team comprised of Rambo-esque players in BF3.

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05-14-2012, 02:02 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Bollocks.
Well, I admit that I'm not as close an observer of the Caps as anyone here, but Bodreau often appeared flummoxed to me and unable to adapt for long stretches of lagging play.

I was surprised that he was not let go last summer. Actually, for that, people would be correct to blame George for not making that move. But, from the DC press, it seemed to me that Ted may have wanted Bodreau to stay more than George did, but that's just my gut feeling. I don't actually know the story there.

I do feel confident in saying that the Caps would likely not have even made the playoffs, and probably would've lost to Boston with Bruce behind the bench. Again, just my feeling. Hunter got you within a goal of Round 3.

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05-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by i2edAlien View Post
People aren't really arguing except one individual who is trying to make a point in hindsight.

There no was way of telling that the Vokoun deal would've turned out the way it did. Everyone who is not a Vokoun hater would've made the same call 1000/1000 times. $1.5m for what was thought of at the time, one of the better goalies in the league.

Keep in mind Holtby's call up was circumstantial. They had no choice.
Poll 1000 HFB posters at the time Vokoun was signed and 999 of them would have called it a good signing.

People fail to realize how fragile goalies are and how their injuries inordinately affect a team's chances of success in any given season. It takes a lot of luck to win a Cup.

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05-14-2012, 02:09 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by TheReal13Linseman View Post
Well, I admit that I'm not as close an observer of the Caps as anyone here, but Bodreau often appeared flummoxed to me and unable to adapt for long stretches of lagging play.

I was surprised that he was not let go last summer. Actually, for that, people would be correct to blame George for not making that move. But, from the DC press, it seemed to me that Ted may have wanted Bodreau to stay more than George did, but that's just my gut feeling. I don't actually know the story there.

I do feel confident in saying that the Caps would likely not have even made the playoffs, and probably would've lost to Boston with Bruce behind the bench. Again, just my feeling. Hunter got you within a goal of Round 3.
Boudreau was and is a very good coach, but ti was time for him to go,....Dale did a bloody good job as an NHL coach considering he coached in the O and had no NHL coaching experience.....but I`m glad he`s going back to London.

Winning the Stanley Cup is all about timing.....being healthy, getting on that hot streak, having a good coach ( all you need is a good coach, Stanley Cups make good coaches great) and a good balanced team. I honestly think we`re a 2C and another Veteran D away from being a good balanced team......now we just need a good coach.

In regards to good coaches being great coaches?
Look at Crawford and Hartley.....they`re good coaches, not great coaches...Joe Sakic, Perter Forsberg, Adam Foote and Patrick Roy made them look great.

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05-14-2012, 02:11 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Oh I'm not discounting that it was a bargain....and it was a bargain for a reason as we all found out.

How many pundits still think it was a great deal? Fact is, even though it was made at a bargain, it was still a failure.
Are you suggesting that the rest of the NHL knew Vokoun would flop (if you want to call it that) and for that reason he was a bargain?

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05-14-2012, 02:11 PM
  #440
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Boudreau was and is a very good coach, but ti was time for him to go,....Dale did a bloody good job as an NHL coach considering he coached in the O and had no NHL coaching experience.....but I`m glad he`s going back to London.

Winning the Stanley Cup is all about timing.....being healthy, getting on that hot streak, having a good coach ( all you need is a good coach, Stanley Cups make good coaches great) and a good balanced team. I honestly think we`re a 2C and another Veteran D away from being a good balanced team......now we just need a good coach.

In regards to good coaches being great coaches?
Look at Crawford and Hartley.....they`re good coaches, not great coaches...Joe Sakic, Perter Forsberg, Adam Foote and Patrick Roy made them look great.
Crawford is one of the worst coaches I have ever seen

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05-14-2012, 02:15 PM
  #441
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Crawford is one of the worst coaches I have ever seen
I dunno about worst...he had some good seasons with the Canucks, was horrid with the Kings, then had a decent season with the Stars, not to mention the Nordiques and Avs seasons.

The only coach I`d put in the GREAT category is Scotty Bowman, and I`m referring to modern day....can`t really get into the Toe Blake, Dick Irvin eras.

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05-14-2012, 02:46 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by i2edAlien View Post
People aren't really arguing except one individual who is trying to make a point in hindsight.

There no was way of telling that the Vokoun deal would've turned out the way it did. Everyone who is not a Vokoun hater would've made the same call 1000/1000 times. $1.5m for what was thought of at the time, one of the better goalies in the league.

Keep in mind Holtby's call up was circumstantial. They had no choice.
Nobody is saying it wasn't a good value signing at the time. Now that we've seen how the season went, we can see that it was just like the rest of the year. Failure. When the goal is to win Cups, and that's the ONLY goal, it's easy to be cut and dry in these situations.

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05-14-2012, 02:48 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by i2edAlien View Post
Fatass wasn't a bad coach... this team really just isn't that good.

They remind me of a team comprised of Rambo-esque players in BF3.
He lost the team. Should have been fired earlier.

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05-14-2012, 02:50 PM
  #444
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Fatass wasn't a bad coach... this team really just isn't that good.

They remind me of a team comprised of Rambo-esque players in BF3.
Sadly most Caps fans refuse to believe it no matter how many years of postseason failure. This is a team with a few fatally flawed players playing key positions and key minutes. All points to one man...

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05-14-2012, 02:50 PM
  #445
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Matt Read was a horrible value signing for the Flyers because they haven't won the cup.

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05-14-2012, 03:21 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Nobody is saying it wasn't a good value signing at the time. Now that we've seen how the season went, we can see that it was just like the rest of the year. Failure. When the goal is to win Cups, and that's the ONLY goal, it's easy to be cut and dry in these situations.
Except you can't take what you know now to assess that signing.

YES it didn't turn out to be the thing that brought us to the cup but this particular signing was the least of their problems.

If you want to talk bad signings... Ward.

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05-14-2012, 03:34 PM
  #447
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Except you can't take what you know now to assess that signing.

YES it didn't turn out to be the thing that brought us to the cup but this particular signing was the least of their problems.

If you want to talk bad signings... Ward.
Sorry, businesses can, do, and will ALWAYS reassess AFTER the fact. It's the ONLY way to make an educated assessment of their successes and failures.

Ward, don't even get me started.

And I never said the Vokoun signing was a problem, just that it was a failure endgame.

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05-14-2012, 03:38 PM
  #448
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Except you can't take what you know now to assess that signing.

YES it didn't turn out to be the thing that brought us to the cup but this particular signing was the least of their problems.

If you want to talk bad signings... Ward.
Ward was 5th in points for forwards and was second in +/-, all in less than 11:00 per game. The man was brought in for the playoffs and he did a pretty good job in the limited minutes he was given. He'll probably always be remembered for the double minor, but I really don't have a problem with that signing after this spring.

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05-14-2012, 04:48 PM
  #449
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He sure played well. No debating that.

But still...we lack "Tinordi" on the back end and have for some great amount of time.
Is that really an issue? I would say our blue line was pretty solid this year. At the end of the day, our issue was lack of goal scoring and possession play.

The loss of Semin is not going to help.

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05-14-2012, 05:27 PM
  #450
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Jesus on the Vokoun stuff...first of all, the signing certainly can't be deemed a failure, because Vokoun got hurt and missed the most important part of the season. The undeniable fact is that he was the best goalie on the team during the majority of the season (that is, when he played and Holtby was in Hershey). Vokoun historically has great playoff numbers -- yes, in a very limited sampling -- and I really don't think he wouldn't have matched Holtby's performance in the playoffs. He had some rough games in terms of giving up soft goals and stuff, and that could have reared its head in the playoffs too (as it did several times for Holtby, including when he totally lost game 1 against the Rangers for the entire team), but I look at the way the team played around Holtby and see an environment in which Vokoun would likely have done at least as well.

It's irrelevant, though. The experiment was incomplete and therefore inconclusive. The facts are that it was a great value, and that he was the best goalie on the team while he was playing. People can disagree on how it would have worked out, but the signing absolutely can't be used to criticize McPhee. Any GM or potential GM or sane human being in the world would have taken that deal under those circumstances. That's that.

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