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Unofficial Rumor/Proposal Thread. Offseason Recon Part 4

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05-14-2012, 12:31 PM
  #976
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Hall at C isn't a great idea. You want him in a position where he can use his breakout speed to make the transition to the attack.Putting him in a position where he's first forward back neutralizes one of his biggest strengths.
This whole Hall at center debate worries me a little, and this post pretty much summarizes my feelings on it. You want him to get the pass on the wall from the D or C and fly down the wing which he has excelled at since junior.

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05-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Skimmingswerth View Post
This whole Hall at center debate worries me a little, and this post pretty much summarizes my feelings on it. You want him to get the pass on the wall from the D or C and fly down the wing which he has excelled at since junior.
IMO, the "Hall to C" idea is more about people's feeling on Gagner than the actual merits of the idea.

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05-14-2012, 01:41 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
IMO, the "Hall to C" idea is more about people's feeling on Gagner than the actual merits of the idea.
I thought it was always the idea to eventually try Hall at C - much like Messier. He'd played at C before in junior, so knows the position.

I always thought it would be the natural progression for him. Wasn't this a major point of discussion when debating Taylor vs. Tyler?

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05-14-2012, 02:21 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
I thought it was always the idea to eventually try Hall at C - much like Messier. He'd played at C before in junior, so knows the position.

I always thought it would be the natural progression for him. Wasn't this a major point of discussion when debating Taylor vs. Tyler?
I can't remember, I just wanted Hall because of his attitude and coming off as a better team guy.

My fear with moving Hall to centre is what happens on the left wing? Unless Yakupov or Hemsky can convert, we have a gaping hole on left wing.

Gagner for a left winger?
Free agency until the team has confidence in Paajarvi, but he's still the only one I'd say is a year or two away from being an impact top 6 left winger.
Sure, everyone is high on Hartikainen but let's give him a bit more time before declaring his competency.
I'd much rather see Hall on the left wing, but I also see Pitlick as a dominant second line centre in the making.

Hartikainen RNH Eberle
Hemsky Hall Yakupov

I mean, it isn't bad. But I'd much rather have Hall up top, Hartikainen starting in Oklahoma and earning his way up here than giving him that prestigious position.
This is assuming Hemsky (Maybe Yakupov could pull it off too. Let's wait until he develops into a great NHL player first) can convert to left wing, which isn't a guarantee.

Overall, if we have 2 solid choices on the left wing, sure let's try Hall at centre. Otherwise why fix what isn't broken?

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05-14-2012, 02:22 PM
  #980
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Hey you guys have any interest in Mark Pysyk? Like Mark Pysyk for Gagner?

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05-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Hey you guys have any interest in Mark Pysyk? Like Mark Pysyk for Gagner?
Preying on our swooning love for the Oil Kings right now are you?

In my opinion, Buffalo would have to add a decent/youngish roster player to that.

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05-14-2012, 02:35 PM
  #982
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Hey you guys have any interest in Mark Pysyk? Like Mark Pysyk for Gagner?
Nope. Has been a great Oilking but is far from being a regular NHLer. He'll be buried in depth.

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05-14-2012, 02:38 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
I thought it was always the idea to eventually try Hall at C - much like Messier. He'd played at C before in junior, so knows the position.

I always thought it would be the natural progression for him. Wasn't this a major point of discussion when debating Taylor vs. Tyler?
And that idea was based on the Oilers' lack of a bona fide #1C. I don't think that's an issue anymore, so I don't really see what the advantage is to moving Hall to C at this point.

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05-14-2012, 02:39 PM
  #984
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I want to discuss the coming contracts of Eberle and Hall for a bit.

Is it in our best interest to Pull a NY Islanders (Tavares) and sign them a year in advance, to a really reasonable contract.

I was a huge fan of that Tavares deal, and would love if we could pull off the same thing with our guys.

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05-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
I want to discuss the coming contracts of Eberle and Hall for a bit.

Is it in our best interest to Pull a NY Islanders (Tavares) and sign them a year in advance, to a really reasonable contract.

I was a huge fan of that Tavares deal, and would love if we could pull off the same thing with our guys.
Call me a pessimist but I want to see Hall's surgically repaired shoulder hold up for at least 75 games before I commit that kind of money and term. If it's good to go I have no problem signing him and the other young guys to those kinds of deals.

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05-14-2012, 02:49 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
I want to discuss the coming contracts of Eberle and Hall for a bit.

Is it in our best interest to Pull a NY Islanders (Tavares) and sign them a year in advance, to a really reasonable contract.

I was a huge fan of that Tavares deal, and would love if we could pull off the same thing with our guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimmingswerth View Post
Call me a pessimist but I want to see Hall's surgically repaired shoulder hold up for at least 75 games before I commit that kind of money and term. If it's good to go I have no problem signing him and the other young guys to those kinds of deals.
I have to agree. Last thing we need is to give Hall 5-6mil over 5-6 years only to find out he can only be a 20-20 guy.

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05-14-2012, 02:54 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Skimmingswerth View Post
Call me a pessimist but I want to see Hall's surgically repaired shoulder hold up for at least 75 games before I commit that kind of money and term. If it's good to go I have no problem signing him and the other young guys to those kinds of deals.
Ditto if/when Eberle's shooting % comes back to a more realistic and sustainable number.

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05-14-2012, 03:02 PM
  #988
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Ditto if/when Eberle's shooting % comes back to a more realistic and sustainable number.
Hasn't this been said the past two years now??

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05-14-2012, 03:14 PM
  #989
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I have to agree. Last thing we need is to give Hall 5-6mil over 5-6 years only to find out he can only be a 20-20 guy.
I agree that Hall's shoulder is an issue.

But if the Oilers manage to convince the youth movement to sign similar contracts moving forward, it may be best to do it sooner rather than later. If we are able to re-up Eberle and Hall this summer, IMHO you should do it because all signs point to at least one of those guys returning your investment.

Then fast forward to resigning Hopkins and Yakupov and you've already drawn a line in the sand.

On the other hand, if we wait and either or, God-willing, both of these guys take their game into 'Stamkos' territory, you've got an issue on the horizon when coming to a fair cap-number.

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05-14-2012, 03:17 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
I agree that Hall's shoulder is an issue.

But if the Oilers manage to convince the youth movement to sign similar contracts moving forward, it may be best to do it sooner rather than later. If we are able to re-up Eberle and Hall this summer, IMHO you should do it because all signs point to at least one of those guys returning your investment.

Then fast forward to resigning Hopkins and Yakupov and you've already drawn a line in the sand.

On the other hand, if we wait and either or, God-willing, both of these guys take their game into 'Stamkos' territory, you've got an issue on the horizon when coming to a fair cap-number.
Too big of a risk for me. Why can't we wait until x-mas?

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05-14-2012, 03:23 PM
  #991
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Wow, I totally forgot about Olli Jokinen. I think he'd be a great signing.

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05-14-2012, 03:25 PM
  #992
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Hasn't this been said the past two years now??
Not that I've heard. He had an S% of 11.4 last year,which is average.

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05-14-2012, 03:29 PM
  #993
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I really see no upside to Hall at center. I don't doubt he can play the position, but I do have doubts that he's better suited there than at LW, and I really don't see the point in playing arguably your best player in a position other than where he is at his best. Not only that, but I'd much rather see Hall on the top line at LW than at center on the 2nd line.

And then who plays LW on the top line? Paajarvi, the guy who spent most of the year in the minors and didn't produce when he was up with the big club? Smyth, the 36 year old who slowed down considerably as the year went on? Or do we move a second player out of position and have Yakupov play at LW on the top line?

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05-14-2012, 03:29 PM
  #994
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IMO, the "Hall to C" idea is more about people's feeling on Gagner than the actual merits of the idea.
Bingo. I don't think this has much to do with Hall, and if, say, Galchenyuk was the BPA in this draft, we wouldn't be talking about it at all.

IMO he isn't suited to centre and I'd rather see him excel at LW than fiddle around with his still-developing game. Finding a 2C--Gagner isn't gonna work--is Tambellini's problem, not Hall's.

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05-14-2012, 03:31 PM
  #995
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I agree that Hall's shoulder is an issue.

But if the Oilers manage to convince the youth movement to sign similar contracts moving forward, it may be best to do it sooner rather than later. If we are able to re-up Eberle and Hall this summer, IMHO you should do it because all signs point to at least one of those guys returning your investment.

Then fast forward to resigning Hopkins and Yakupov and you've already drawn a line in the sand.

On the other hand, if we wait and either or, God-willing, both of these guys take their game into 'Stamkos' territory, you've got an issue on the horizon when coming to a fair cap-number.
There's a small matter of a new CBA coming: IMO it makes sense to wait and see what implications that holds before signing anyone to a long term deal.

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05-14-2012, 03:53 PM
  #996
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It was in a Hall interview shortly after the season ended he said that Tambo told him that they'd like to play him at C next year. As far as Gagner is he an adequate 2C? He produced very poorly in that role last year, very erratic and besides that one really good stretch of 4-5 games when he was in a 1st line capacity he really wasn't all that great in that role. Also I'm not proposing that we move Gagner for a D prospect, it was proposed for McBain who is a young d-man that has NHL experience under his belt. If we are serious about the Hall to C move and so is he then IMO Gagner is bye bye. 5 seasons s7ark, 5 and Gagner has really never taken that next step offensively, how long are we supposed to wait? He has 2 more years before UFA and is a RFA at the moment. We are in a tough spot right now with him IMO.
Cool, thanks for the post exit interview info. I'd have to hear it, but I am still not sure that means the Oilers want to try him at C full time, or part time. I maintain that asking Hall to step into a full time 2C role after not playing there for years, is a lot to put on him coming off of shoulder surgery.

As far as Gagner's production, he was tied for 38th in C scoring last season a couple of points behind Lecavalier and Kesler. That is 2nd C production, imo. These are some of the players he out performed last season: Mike Richards, Derek Roy, Cody Hodgson, Brooks Laich, Derick Brassard, Patrik Berglund, Dave Bolland, and Antoine Vermette. Half of HFOil would jump at the chance to add almost any of those names as 2C, so why is Gagner such a bad option?

And yes, he has played 5 seasons. 5 seasons and he isn't even 23 yet. How many Vancouver fans wanted the Sedins traded at 23? Think Phoenix and Calgary regret moving Briere and St Louis when they did? Not all forwards develop at the same rate. Gagner has 220 NHL points in his first 5 seasons. That is nothing to snicker at. We've seen him do incredible things when playing with talent, so why should we trade him away, when his value is low, right before we get another elite winger for him to skate with?

While McBain is a better option than Gormley, is he a big enough upgrade to our D to risk having Horcoff in our top 6? I would say no.

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05-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
I want to discuss the coming contracts of Eberle and Hall for a bit.

Is it in our best interest to Pull a NY Islanders (Tavares) and sign them a year in advance, to a really reasonable contract.

I was a huge fan of that Tavares deal, and would love if we could pull off the same thing with our guys.
They should absolutely look to lock up Eberle long term during the summer and i think they will. He is the safest bet out of all the kids to maintain a consistent, high level of play throughout his career.
They should wait until around Christmas to lock up Hall just to make sure that his shoulder is fully healed and won't be a big problem going forward.
Either way, i think that they should both be locked up before the New Year IMO.

I would say that a Tavares type of deal would be a steal but i don't see that happening with the projected rise in the cap so i would say between $6-$6.5 mil/yr long term would be ideal for both.

As for the Hall to center people, no no NO.
Hall's game is suited for the wing and it's a season too late for this experiment. It's not like moving from one wing to another, Hall will have to change his game a lot to learn how to play center at a high level and anchor a line. It will take at least a season of adjustment for him plus he will need to fully recover from the injury as well so there are too many obstacles in order to for Hall to learn how to play effectively at center plus i don't think that he has it in him. Tambellini will have to buck up and bring in some center help or he should just buck off.

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05-14-2012, 04:01 PM
  #998
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imo Hall won't be getting 6.5 per year.

I could see Eberle getting 6 per and Hall 5 per. Both 5-6 year deals.

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05-14-2012, 04:03 PM
  #999
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imo Hall won't be getting 6.5 per year.

I could see Eberle getting 6 per and Hall 5 per. Both 5-6 year deals.
Contracts are all about "what have you done for me lately" - if they both have big seasons, they'll get paid well.

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05-14-2012, 04:04 PM
  #1000
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Too big of a risk for me. Why can't we wait until x-mas?
I don't think waiting until December would really be an issue. I'm really focusing on a this summer vs. next summer debate. I think we've already got enough of a sample size from each of these guys to offer them contracts somewhere short of Tavares territory.

The last thing we'd want is management to put it off, then one (or both) of those guys lighting up the league and commanding Stamkos money. Because you know each and every one of those guys is going to use the other's contract as a bargaining chip in contract talks.

And yes, the CBA is coming up. But I don't see that having a massive effect on signing a guy to a six-year deal. I don't think there's much you can do to the CBA to make the Tavares contract look bad.

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