HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #451
artilector
Registered User
 
artilector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,709
vCash: 500
Yeah, I am bashing McPhee in the other thread re: "Semin leaving for nothing", but as far as Vokoun, that seems like a very good no-brainer move that just didn't work out..

artilector is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 06:10 PM
  #452
WetHog
Out to Lunch
 
WetHog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Poland
Posts: 9,110
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WetHog
Who is GMGM's mentor? Who did he serve under prior to getting the Caps GM gig that taught him all the tricks to the GM trade? Just curious.

WetHog is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 06:11 PM
  #453
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
Who is GMGM's mentor? Who did he serve under prior to getting the Caps GM gig that taught him all the tricks to the GM trade? Just curious.
Brian Burke.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 06:13 PM
  #454
WetHog
Out to Lunch
 
WetHog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Poland
Posts: 9,110
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WetHog
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Brian Burke.
Oh. Not sure that seems like a good thing based on my limited knowledge on NHL GM's.

WetHog is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 06:23 PM
  #455
mrwarden
Nothing Witty
 
mrwarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 8,983
vCash: 500
They're completely different GMs anyway. They were probably more similar in McPhee's first decade.

__________________
mrwarden is in ur threads, deleting ur posts
mrwarden is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 06:30 PM
  #456
Carlzner
Registered User
 
Carlzner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 10,715
vCash: 500
GMGM >>>>>>>>>>>> Burke

Carlzner is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 08:26 PM
  #457
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,849
vCash: 500
Remind me who has the Cup?

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 08:47 PM
  #458
G3 LesPaul
Registered User
 
G3 LesPaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Remind me who has the Cup?

G3 LesPaul is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 09:19 PM
  #459
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,849
vCash: 500
I'd trade 10 years of Burke misery for 1 Cup. Hell, I've already got a 28 year lead.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
05-14-2012, 11:26 PM
  #460
TheReal13Linseman
Registered Abuser
 
TheReal13Linseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nation's Capital
Country: United States
Posts: 6,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I'd trade 10 years of Burke misery for 1 Cup. Hell, I've already got a 28 year lead.
Some things just aren't worth it. Leafs are much farther away from a Cup than the Caps.

Burke's foolishness played a key role in getting us the Cup. Rask, Seguin and next year Dougie Hamilton.

McPhee is nowhere near the clown Burke is; he's ruined that team for a lot of years to come.

__________________
My views have No Movement Clauses.
Bruins HF Board: Come for the lunacy; stay for the snipefest.
Marchand: Today's Linseman
No matter what, Soderberg would've scored there.
Pastrnak means "Eurolectric" in Czech. Look it up.
TheReal13Linseman is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 07:34 AM
  #461
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,570
vCash: 1300
George is afraid to pull off a deal big enough that would make him look like a clown should it fail, and thus he will never even try for a blockbuster. He prefers to build through the draft. But when you lose your top end talent guys like Semin or Kuz for nothing, it's a failed strategy. Lets see what Varly fetches and talk in 3 years.

I will be very disappointed if George waits until August to hire a coach. If he signs some offensive studs in the meantime, I won't celebrate until I see how he uses them. A damn plumber can be a checker and paying a guy like Semin 6M to be a defensive first forward is a bad investment. He should target a litter of Beagles.

RandyHolt is online now  
Old
05-15-2012, 07:39 AM
  #462
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
George is afraid to pull off a deal big enough that would make him look like a clown should it fail, and thus he will never even try for a blockbuster. He prefers to build through the draft. But when you lose your top end talent guys like Semin or Kuz for nothing, it's a failed strategy. Lets see what Varly fetches and talk in 3 years.

I will be very disappointed if George waits until August to hire a coach. If he signs some offensive studs in the meantime, I won't celebrate until I see how he uses them. A damn plumber can be a checker and paying a guy like Semin 6M to be a defensive first forward is a bad investment. He should target a litter of Beagles.
Yeah the coaching decision should come before UFA period starts for sure..but knowing George he will wait til after...why else would he have Hunter there for the draft?? He's assuming he's not gonna have a coach in place before then...if I'm not mistaken the UFA period starts not long after the draft which would leave a very short window for hiring a guy.

McPhee seems confused. He drafts/signs and gives massive contracts to high end offensive players and then chucks them time and time again (Wilson's center lock, Hanlon, BBs trap, Hunterhockey) into all out defensive systems. He can't seem to make up his mind on how he wants to go..its always shifting.

BobRouse is online now  
Old
05-15-2012, 07:53 AM
  #463
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,570
vCash: 1300
George can't be taken at his word. He and his minions like many sports GMs blatantly lie to the media. Don't worry, Beagle WILL be in the lineup. George should be on his horse looking for a coach now. I see no reason to wait unless he is waiting for a contract to end and has all but targeted his guy.

I agree Rouse, the guy comes across as confused. He landed Ovi, and his whole plan got a big ole monkey wrench thrown into it. He had a wide open window to win a cup riding Ovi, we all saw it, albeit early in his rebuild. But his goal is not to win a cup, and there in lies his problem. His goal is to compete for the cup every year, and one year by sheer chances alone, the cup will be ours.

Hindsight is 20/20 sure and he had some decent pickups, but he could have supported Ovi better and mortgaged the future for a 2C and 1LD proper.

RandyHolt is online now  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:14 AM
  #464
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Yeah the coaching decision should come before UFA period starts for sure..but knowing George he will wait til after...why else would he have Hunter there for the draft?? He's assuming he's not gonna have a coach in place before then...if I'm not mistaken the UFA period starts not long after the draft which would leave a very short window for hiring a guy.

McPhee seems confused. He drafts/signs and gives massive contracts to high end offensive players and then chucks them time and time again (Wilson's center lock, Hanlon, BBs trap, Hunterhockey) into all out defensive systems. He can't seem to make up his mind on how he wants to go..its always shifting.
See, I don't know about that. Everybody assumes that if you are going to play a defensive system you dob't get high end offensive players. It seems to me that if you are going to play a defensive system without a lot of offensive support, you would want a few high end offensive guys to make the most of the offensive opportunities you do have. Could you imagine in their prime Lemieux and Jagr on this year's Caps team (replacing OV and Backsteom, let's say)? We take out the Rags in no more than 5 games by limiting them to 2 goals and scoring 3 of our own. Of course that's an extreme example, but I see where McPhee may be going with this. Plus, he probably figures it's easier to teach an offensive guy to play some defense than the other way around. My problem with Hunter was not in the defensive emphasis, but rather the abandonment of offensive basics like forechecking and cycling, which are critical to defensive success anyways.

Capsman is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:19 AM
  #465
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
George is afraid to pull off a deal big enough that would make him look like a clown should it fail, and thus he will never even try for a blockbuster. He prefers to build through the draft. But when you lose your top end talent guys like Semin or Kuz for nothing, it's a failed strategy. Lets see what Varly fetches and talk in 3 years.

I will be very disappointed if George waits until August to hire a coach. If he signs some offensive studs in the meantime, I won't celebrate until I see how he uses them. A damn plumber can be a checker and paying a guy like Semin 6M to be a defensive first forward is a bad investment. He should target a litter of Beagles.
Who says we lost Kuz? It's 2 years, and by then the Olympics are done and he will likely have the itch.

Capsman is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:26 AM
  #466
IkeaMonkey*
HF Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: derderderderderderde
Country: Sao Tome e Principe
Posts: 12,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
Who says we lost Kuz? It's 2 years, and by then the Olympics are done and he will likely have the itch.
Or two years gives him time to settle down and get comfy.

IkeaMonkey* is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:30 AM
  #467
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,570
vCash: 1300
Kuz said he is staying in Russia. Who are we to say he will still come here.

George appears a defensive minded GM. And that's fine, solid team D has been THE Capitals playbook since we landed hot Rod. Back in the day, most wanted more offense, or blamed our goalies, when we choked.

George got knocked down a peg when BB rode Ovi to overnight dominance. Ted counting his cash all but forced George to suck it up. George said I can't take it, and under BB and Dale, we turtled.

The problem is, Ovi what 15% of our cap, is not defensive. At all. If George truly knows and believes top end players must be very responsible defensively, he has been living a life of lies thinking Mr Offense will land him a cup.

Which is it George, what is your direction. I think its Ovi for Selke. Square peg round hole, I expect him to just keep pounding away. We were so close under Bruce, and I think George refuses to accept any responsibility for why it didn't work. And refused to simply tweak what Bruce did, or supplement the roster more aptly, and chose to re-invent the wheel, Ovi, instead.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 05-15-2012 at 08:38 AM.
RandyHolt is online now  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:32 AM
  #468
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,157
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
George can't be taken at his word. He and his minions like many sports GMs blatantly lie to the media. Don't worry, Beagle WILL be in the lineup. George should be on his horse looking for a coach now. I see no reason to wait unless he is waiting for a contract to end and has all but targeted his guy.

I agree Rouse, the guy comes across as confused. He landed Ovi, and his whole plan got a big ole monkey wrench thrown into it. He had a wide open window to win a cup riding Ovi, we all saw it, albeit early in his rebuild. But his goal is not to win a cup, and there in lies his problem. His goal is to compete for the cup every year, and one year by sheer chances alone, the cup will be ours.

Hindsight is 20/20 sure and he had some decent pickups, but he could have supported Ovi better and mortgaged the future for a 2C and 1LD proper.
I could understand the mortgage the future line of thinking a little better if the Caps were an older team with playoff vets that looked like they needed a push to get over the top. I see that strategy making the most sense when you have a couple of 30 year old top line players/defensemen/goalie that look like they might be starting on the downward slide and are trying to maximize their last remaining productive years. The Caps were not at that point 3 years ago. Almost every important player on those teams had little/no playoff experience. To upgrade the Shaonne Morrison's and Milan Jurcina's and Tomas Fleischmann's of the world, would have required serious mortgaging. Not to mention that the team was playing in front of Theodore.

It always appears that people assume that if they mortgaged the future that would have pretty much guaranteed a Cup. Given the random nature of the playoffs, it is just as likely, if not much more so, that the Caps would be sitting here now with 9more years of Ovechkin, no Carlson/Alzner, none of the assets from the Varly trade, likely no Kuznetsov (even though his status is so up in the air), and instead have a roster littered with bargain bin FAs and other assorted castoffs.

What the Caps needed were for their best players to play like their best players and show improvement each spring, allowing the promising youngsters to join a theoretically improving young core.

I guess what I'm saying is is that if the Caps are sitting in this position in 3 years, then go ahead and sign those mortgage papers.

Stewie G is online now  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:35 AM
  #469
swimmer77
Post Oates
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
See, I don't know about that. Everybody assumes that if you are going to play a defensive system you dob't get high end offensive players. It seems to me that if you are going to play a defensive system without a lot of offensive support, you would want a few high end offensive guys to make the most of the offensive opportunities you do have. Could you imagine in their prime Lemieux and Jagr on this year's Caps team (replacing OV and Backsteom, let's say)? We take out the Rags in no more than 5 games by limiting them to 2 goals and scoring 3 of our own. Of course that's an extreme example, but I see where McPhee may be going with this. Plus, he probably figures it's easier to teach an offensive guy to play some defense than the other way around. My problem with Hunter was not in the defensive emphasis, but rather the abandonment of offensive basics like forechecking and cycling, which are critical to defensive success anyways.
I agree with that after watching the Habs' playoff run in 2009 - 2010. They had limited opportunities at times but the guy lighting it up the most was Michael Cammalleri. He was a sniper and was able to take advantage of the opportunities given. And I agree it's easier to teach D than develop high end offensive skills.

My problem with Hunter was that he stressed that first goal so much. The team didn't seem adept at counter punching once down. Also the Caps scored the first goal a lot but then turtled and didn't seem to have a killer instinct. IDK if that was Hunter though or the guys not finishing.

swimmer77 is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 08:57 AM
  #470
marcel snapshot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
My problem with Hunter was that he stressed that first goal so much. The team didn't seem adept at counter punching once down. Also the Caps scored the first goal a lot but then turtled and didn't seem to have a killer instinct. IDK if that was Hunter though or the guys not finishing.
I thought we were OK in counter-punching when down - we came back in a number of games in the regular season and came from behind to tie or take the lead in 5 of 14 playoff games. That said, your point about the 1st goal being of paramount importance is right, because I think we lost all 5 of those games.

What concerned me about Dale's coaching is whether he had the inclination and ability to vary his style depending upon the team's opposition. I thought his style was absolutely correct for Boston, but I really thought the Rags D was vulnerable to being attacked and forechecked (as the Devils showed last night).

And I wonder if he would have been willing to attack the Pens D (as Philly did), or attack Philly's D (as NJ did) -- if we had played either of those teams and stuck to his style, we would basically be declining to attack the opposition's weakness (their D), and effectively reinforcing their strengths (their offensive pressure).

McPhee really needs to chose wisely here - I think it's the last chance he gets.

marcel snapshot is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 09:09 AM
  #471
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Kuz said he is staying in Russia. Who are we to say he will still come here.
Did I miss where he said he is staying permanently? I seem to remember a quote about 2 years contract, but maybe I'm imagining it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Which is it George, what is your direction. I think its Ovi for Selke. Square peg round hole, I expect him to just keep pounding away. We were so close under Bruce, and I think George refuses to accept any responsibility for why it didn't work. And refused to simply tweak what Bruce did, or supplement the roster more aptly, and chose to re-invent the wheel, Ovi, instead.
Is it the lack of a 2C that cost us against Montreal? From my recollection, our biggest complaint at the time was guys not sacrificing themselves physically, not going to the front of the net enough, etc. Capable 2nd line playmaker wasn't big on the complaint list. In fact, improving our defense was.

In the beginning of the 2010 season we were scoring at a pretty good clip, things were looking good. Staying pat would have been exactly the type of thing that would have infuriated fans here, who anticipated more playoff failure without a shored up defense. The Flash trade seemed EXACTLY the type of tweak to improve our chances, I mean it was only Flash. So he trades Flash, who everyone hated and wanted gone, for Hannan. Seemed like a pretty good move at the time.

Our shift to a defensive emphasis did not occur because of McPhee finally saying "I can't take it anymore". It occurred because suddenly our offensive well dried up. Do I think Flash was a major factor? Eh, I doubt it. Teams started pressuring our puck carriers often with 2 guys, and the type of offense to make that strategy fail was not BB's forte. But this revisionist theory that McPhee interfered and changed the system that was working so well is ridiculous. Believe me, Boudreau was on board with it because he knew that we would not be able to score like we used to.

Again, to me GMGM's single biggest failure as a GM was in his coaching hires. His second biggest failure was his inaction at this year's trade deadline, particularly with regard to Wideman. He had an opportunity to sell high, Orlov would have been a capable replacement down the stretch.

Capsman is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 09:25 AM
  #472
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,570
vCash: 1300
Decent points Capsman.

But Bruce said he regrets listening to <unnamed person> and going defensive. Who was that? I fully believe it was George. Coaching was compartmentalized. Evason did not have a say in the offense. Bruce apologized to the fans for the boring style.

That Flash trade rattled Bruce's cage IMO and to the day caused our team to fall into a tailspin. Maybe teams saw us lose an offensive piece and focused on Ovi, but I think it was more Montreal that laid down the blueprint to squash Ovi. I theorize Bruce losing FLASH got flustered and his emotions on his sleeve ways spilled over to the players and was seen on the ice.

But once the bleeding stopped, Bruce slowly but surely got away from the trap. Did we trap to beat the Rags in 5 games? Hell no.

As to why we didn't beat Montreal, I believe it came down to coaching. We did the same thing all year long, and it was easy to be game planned for. Ovi and Green full 2 on every PP. Ovi flying down LW, stepping inside, and shooting. Thinking Sarge could support Green at playoff speeds. Not trying Theo our number 1 after Varly lost 2 straight. Not trying M instant offense P in game 6. Both with Montreal ties, something extra to play for.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 05-15-2012 at 09:35 AM.
RandyHolt is online now  
Old
05-15-2012, 09:29 AM
  #473
Atlas
Registered User
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,211
vCash: 500
If Ted doesn't get a real hockey guy in here to run the team I'm going to explode.

Atlas is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 09:39 AM
  #474
Capsman
Registered User
 
Capsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Decent points Capsman.

But Bruce said he regrets listening to <unnamed person> and going defensive. Who was that? I fully believe it was George. Coaching was compartmentalized. Evason did not have a say in the offense. Bruce apologized to the fans for the boring style.

That Flash trade rattled Bruce's cage and to the day caused our team to fall into a tailspin. Maybe teams saw us lose an offensive piece and focused on Ovi, but I think it was more Montreal that laid down the blueprint to squash Ovi. I theorize Bruce losing Ovi got flustered and his emotions on his sleeve thing was seen on the ice.

But once the bleeding stopped, Bruce slowly but surely got away from the trap. Did we trap to beat the Rags in 5 games? Hell no.

As to why we didn't beat Montreal, I believe it came down to coaching. We did the same thing all year long, and it was easy to be game planned for. Ovi and Green full 2 on every PP. Ovi flying down LW, stepping inside, and shooting. Thinking Sarge could support Green at playoff speeds. Not trying Theo after Varly lost 2 straight. Not trying M instant offense P in game 6. Both with Montreal ties, something extra to play for.
I never saw that quote, but if that's the case it certainly changes my thinking a little bit. Hmm. That said, I still question whether we would have pulled out of that offensive slump that occurred right around the time Flash was traded, and before we went defensive. It seemed to drag for quite a while. Yeah, against the Rangers we did open things up a bit, scoring 2.6 goals per game. And the TB series we were certainly hampered by defensive injuries. Going to this season's start, however, I don't feel like we were playing super conservatively but still really struggled to score goals after that hot start. I don't know what to think anymore, honestly.

Capsman is offline  
Old
05-15-2012, 09:46 AM
  #475
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsman View Post
I never saw that quote, but if that's the case it certainly changes my thinking a little bit. Hmm. That said, I still question whether we would have pulled out of that offensive slump that occurred right around the time Flash was traded, and before we went defensive. It seemed to drag for quite a while. Yeah, against the Rangers we did open things up a bit, scoring 2.6 goals per game. And the TB series we were certainly hampered by defensive injuries. Going to this season's start, however, I don't feel like we were playing super conservatively but still really struggled to score goals after that hot start. I don't know what to think anymore, honestly.
You don't remember BB saying, after he was terminated, that his biggest regret was not sticking to his guns and listening to the "voices in his ears" or something like that? He was clearly saying that he was influenced by someone/others when he switched to the trap.

BobRouse is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.