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Old
05-15-2012, 11:06 AM
  #51
Bones45
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You guys are all drunk!!!

1. The Isles becoming LESS relevant if they move further east? THEY COULDNT BE LESS RELEVANT THAN RIGHT NOW. The only way they would be less relevant would be if they leave altogether.

The Isles fanbase (what is left of it) is in Nassau and Suffolk. NOT BROOKLYN.


2. They will be bankrupt in 10 years if they move to Suffolk? THEY ARE ALREADY BANKRUPT. Bankrupt of talent, a system, a supporting mgmt team, fans, media coverage, and they are BROKE. How much does Wang lose a year?

When you are at the bottom, all you can go is up!

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05-15-2012, 11:15 AM
  #52
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for the one millionth time.. if they move to Suffolk county they will be bankrupt in 10 years!!

Lets move farther away from the biggest market in the world and make ourselves more obsolete in the NY metro area.
Obsolete or differentiate itself? There are over 3000 counties in the united states. Nassau and Suffolk alone are both in the top 1% in both population and per capita. There are plenty of smaller markets with teams. LI is a far cry from being the boon docks. You can move closer to the biggest market in the US but that is also moving closer to the home of 2 existing NHL teams. 3 teams within 15 miles of each other? There are 9 major sport pro teams in the metro area, only 1 of which is on the non NYC part of LI, which has nearly 3M people. What the Isles need is success on the ice and a real NHL building.

IMHO, if that was the case, they will draw in any of the locations mentioned, including out of state. There is no shortage of potential fanbase, whether it be Brooklyn, Queens, Nassau or Suffolk. IMHO if the same set of historic ownership moves, building issues and results on ice, occurred in any of the locations mentioned the fan base issues would be the same (Just look at what happened to the Yankees in the early 70s or the mets in the late 70s when the isles were out drawing them).

It also wouldnt hurt if the media actually included them as a local team and MSG stopped putting them on MSG 99 with no coverage outside of actual games.


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Old
05-15-2012, 11:19 AM
  #53
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+ Nassau is becoming more like Queens every day.. horrible traffic--

+ Islip Airport is expanding and I think just layed down a new runway.


AHh yes... COME TO BUTTHEAD!!!!!

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05-15-2012, 11:57 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
You guys are all drunk!!!

1. The Isles becoming LESS relevant if they move further east? THEY COULDNT BE LESS RELEVANT THAN RIGHT NOW. The only way they would be less relevant would be if they leave altogether.

The Isles fanbase (what is left of it) is in Nassau and Suffolk. NOT BROOKLYN.


2. They will be bankrupt in 10 years if they move to Suffolk? THEY ARE ALREADY BANKRUPT. Bankrupt of talent, a system, a supporting mgmt team, fans, media coverage, and they are BROKE. How much does Wang lose a year?

When you are at the bottom, all you can go is up!


I agree, moving to Suffolk will make them less relevant then they are now. As much as I want them on LI, Suffolk I don't believe is the answer. Brooklyn will allow them to keep the fans they have now, and try and gain new fans.


Your options for location are:

Nassau
Queens
Brooklyn
Elsewhere

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05-15-2012, 01:08 PM
  #55
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I agree, moving to Suffolk will make them less relevant then they are now. As much as I want them on LI, Suffolk I don't believe is the answer. Brooklyn will allow them to keep the fans they have now, and try and gain new fans.


Your options for location are:

Nassau
Queens
Brooklyn
Elsewhere
I hear you and I know that is a common perception but we can agree to disagree on this. Relevant to who, NYC?

As many of the current STH's and Bettman have said, Brooklyn is not easily accessible for a large part of the current base. Of course we will all stay fans and attend a few games. Western Suffolk would be more accessible and is more centrally located to the current base than Brooklyn. It may actually reduce the travel time of many fans in eastern nassau and suffolk. Brooklyn would only lesson travel time for those in NYC vicinity and move the isles to the very edge of their extended base and closer home of two other teams.
Hey if the goal is just tickets and no concern for the current base then that is a reasonable argument, just as moving outside of the area is. They will be more relevant in an area where they are the only hockey market, Quebec, Seattle, or KC. They will be more relevant to Long Island, where most of the base is, in Suffolk or Nassau. They will be more relevant to NYC and the media capital of the world in Brooklyn. Although the arena limitations may always keep us as second class citizens.

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05-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #56
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for the one millionth time.. if they move to Suffolk county they will be bankrupt in 10 years!!

Lets move farther away from the biggest market in the world and make ourselves more obsolete in the NY metro area.
Oh the humanity! That (less than) 20 miles east is going to make all the difference in the world!

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05-15-2012, 02:59 PM
  #57
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Moving further east (to Suffolk) would make going to games more accessible to people coming from the east end, and more importantly Connecticut. People going to games from west will have to drive another 10-15 minutes.... boo hoo

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05-15-2012, 03:16 PM
  #58
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Moving further east (to Suffolk) would make going to games more accessible to people coming from the east end, and more importantly Connecticut. People going to games from west will have to drive another 10-15 minutes.... boo hoo
I agree

I actually think Suffolk is the best option if it could even happen.

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05-15-2012, 03:19 PM
  #59
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Moving further east (to Suffolk) would make going to games more accessible to people coming from the east end, and more importantly Connecticut. People going to games from west will have to drive another 10-15 minutes.... boo hoo
Putting aside allegiances for a moment, dropping a team in Nassau was a horrendous business decision. Moving them to Suffolk would be comical. Again, purely from a business perspective. Landscape of sports has changed a lot since the Isles were hastily granted admittance to the NHL. Selling out the arena is only part of the equation. Moving further away from the population and media centers makes it harder and harder to compete year-after-year.

It would really be a terrible move for the organization -- so obviously I can't rule it out.

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05-15-2012, 03:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Putting aside allegiances for a moment, dropping a team in Nassau was a horrendous business decision. Moving them to Suffolk would be comical. Again, purely from a business perspective. Landscape of sports has changed a lot since the Isles were hastily granted admittance to the NHL. Selling out the arena is only part of the equation. Moving further away from the population and media centers makes it harder and harder to compete year-after-year.

It would really be a terrible move for the organization -- so obviously I can't rule it out.
You are talking like they would be moving to East Hampton. Dropping an arena say in Heartland makes no difference than having it in Hempstead. The people that will go will drive there like they always do and that would be the end of it.

This thread really is hysterical. I thought City people were uppity but wow they have nothing on Nassau folk who thing they are better than Suffolk. This state in itself is truly comical.

Law I don't mean to direct this at you, it's just that some of the people on this board think that putting an arena at exit 53 on the LIE(wherever Heartland is) is ridiculous. It' like 20 miles away. Whoa watch out you people out that way have to drive an extra 20-25 minutes to watch the Isles, not exactly earth shattering as people on here as some seem to believe.


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05-15-2012, 03:53 PM
  #61
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It would really be a terrible move for the organization -- so obviously I can't rule it out.
when you word it like that, its almost a lock.

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05-15-2012, 03:54 PM
  #62
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if the team didnt suck so bad we could put them in riverhead and people would be amped.

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05-15-2012, 04:27 PM
  #63
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You are talking like they would be moving to East Hampton. Dropping an arena say in Heartland makes no difference than having it in Hempstead. The people that will go will drive there like they always do and that would be the end of it.

This thread really is hysterical. I thought City people were uppity but wow they have nothing on Nassau folk who thing they are better than Suffolk. This state in itself is truly comical.

Law I don't mean to direct this at you, it's just that some of the people on this board think that putting an arena at exit 53 on the LIE(wherever Heartland is) is ridiculous. It' like 20 miles away. Whoa watch out you people out that way have to drive an extra 20-25 minutes to watch the Isles, not exactly earth shattering as people on here as some seem to believe.
Again though, I'm not saying Nassau is a great location and Suffolk is bad spot -- I'm saying originally putting it in Hempstead was a bad business decision and moving further east to Suffolk would be even worse. And I say that as a die-hard blue-and-orange fan (is there any other kind left at this point?!).

Professional sports organizations (with the possible exception of the NFL which makes gobs of money on their national TV deals) generally need to be as close to the population/media/business centers as possible. An arena in Suffolk may be full every night, but those luxury suites aren't going to generate a ton of income and your corporate base (from both a ticket and media sponsorship perspective) is going to be minor league compared to most other organizations.

Naming rights are another area that would be impeded by an arena out there. They may get something, but it's going to be peanuts compared to what they'd get closer to the population center.

And don't worry Bruno, you're a poster whose opinion I respect, happy to have some back-and-forth on the subject,that's what the board is here for. (and besides, against my numerous requests, I was denied the right to ban anyone who disagreed with me )

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05-15-2012, 05:54 PM
  #64
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You are talking like they would be moving to East Hampton. Dropping an arena say in Heartland makes no difference than having it in Hempstead. The people that will go will drive there like they always do and that would be the end of it.
If anything, an arena that's located near 4 major roadways (495, Sagtikos, Sunken Meadow Pkwy, Northern State Pkwy) would be a lot easier to get to than the Hempstead Turnpike/Meadowbrook Pkwy mess. Add in the fact that the Heartland Property is located adjacent to the Deer Park LIRR station (completely leaving out the spur that's next to the driving range) and it makes a lot more sense from a traffic pattern POV.

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This thread really is hysterical. I thought City people were uppity but wow they have nothing on Nassau folk who thing they are better than Suffolk. This state in itself is truly comical.
It's the old adage that you can't please all of the people all of the time. Someone is BOUND to be pissed off once an announcement is made, no matter what that announcement might be. They stay where they are, they go to Brooklyn, Queens, Suffolk, wherever, there's bound to be someone who's not happy about it.

I've actually analyzed this over and over again, and I cannot help but wonder something. If Brooklyn won't work because the facility isn't there to play in and the NIMBYs won't allow the retrofit, Queens won't get done because of the Willets Point problem, Nassau has cast their vote and said it's not happening, and Suffolk is "franchise suicide", exactly where in the hell is the team supposed to go?

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Professional sports organizations (with the possible exception of the NFL which makes gobs of money on their national TV deals) generally need to be as close to the population/media/business centers as possible. An arena in Suffolk may be full every night, but those luxury suites aren't going to generate a ton of income and your corporate base (from both a ticket and media sponsorship perspective) is going to be minor league compared to most other organizations.

Naming rights are another area that would be impeded by an arena out there. They may get something, but it's going to be peanuts compared to what they'd get closer to the population center.
The easiest solution to that would be to build a smaller arena IMO. I look at the teams in the small markets, which for all intents and purposes the Islanders qualify as because of their removed status from the major metro area. They really shouldn't be; Long Island has 7 million people on it, yet flies aren't drawn to events because it's not New York City. So why is it necessary to have an arena that's as large a monstrosity at the Rock in Newark?

If an arena was planned that was roughly the same size (maybe even smaller but big enough to satisfy the league) as NVMC, a base of skybox revenue was drawn from industry on an island-wide basis, and it was owned outright instead of leased from the county, why wouldn't it work? To be fair, even teams that have their arenas in the heart of downtown have trouble drawing much of anyone if they're bloody awful. Just ask Buffalo fans about the pre-Pegula days. If you invest in the team, the fans will come, the revenues go up, and it becomes marketable.

But we've all guessed long ago this has nothing to do with the team and everything to do with the real-estate aspect. That's why Suffolk is a real possibility IMO. You have a lot of land that has already been zoned commercially, so there's no roadblocks to building much of anything there (especially on land that NYS is trying to unload). There's a legislature in place that actually has a budget to work with and can vote on things, an industrial base screaming for new jobs and revenue streams to invest in. While he may not be at the helm anymore, CA's headquarters is down the road from there. And unlike NVMC, it's not the only game in town. Pick a direction and there's already other attractions in place, some within walking distance.

The fact of the matter is as long as the Rangers exist there will never be equal marketshare in NYC for hockey, and while it may go up if they go to Brooklyn, the opportunity cost just got a lot higher with a move into the House that Jay-Z Built. If however they went after Long Island (and coastal CT) full force, the sum of the parts might actually be worth just as much as a whole.

Then again, spending 1/2 my life in Suffolk County makes me biased against anything else, so what do I know...

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05-15-2012, 06:15 PM
  #65
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Man I absolutely hate this whole limbo thing. We all have our biases and opinions, myself included, but honestly when we hit that hard deadline, I would take any of the 4 counties on the Island proper just to get this in the rear view mirror.

No matter how I feel now, I guarantee you I will be celebrating when they play that first home game in a new arena as long as I can get to it without having to use a bridge or tunnel (or airplane for that matter). First round will be on me.

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05-15-2012, 07:24 PM
  #66
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If we move to Suffolk there has to be an LIRR station within walking distance. The Islanders desperately need mass transit.

Every single NY team has train service to their games besides the Islanders.

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05-15-2012, 08:14 PM
  #67
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Again though, I'm not saying Nassau is a great location and Suffolk is bad spot -- I'm saying originally putting it in Hempstead was a bad business decision and moving further east to Suffolk would be even worse. And I say that as a die-hard blue-and-orange fan (is there any other kind left at this point?!).

Professional sports organizations (with the possible exception of the NFL which makes gobs of money on their national TV deals) generally need to be as close to the population/media/business centers as possible. An arena in Suffolk may be full every night, but those luxury suites aren't going to generate a ton of income and your corporate base (from both a ticket and media sponsorship perspective) is going to be minor league compared to most other organizations.

Naming rights are another area that would be impeded by an arena out there. They may get something, but it's going to be peanuts compared to what they'd get closer to the population center.

And don't worry Bruno, you're a poster whose opinion I respect, happy to have some back-and-forth on the subject,that's what the board is here for. (and besides, against my numerous requests, I was denied the right to ban anyone who disagreed with me )
Awe thanks Law, you sure now how to make a poster feel good

I see your point though, I took what you said as something completely different. I do see what you mean though by it being a bad business decision. But in the end wasn't the Islanders pretty much just put in there to stop the WHA from putting a franchise in?

I do look forward to potentially going to Teachers Federal Credit Union Arena in Heartland one day(hopefully).

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05-15-2012, 08:32 PM
  #68
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Awe thanks Law, you sure now how to make a poster feel good

I see your point though, I took what you said as something completely different. I do see what you mean though by it being a bad business decision. But in the end wasn't the Islanders pretty much just put in there to stop the WHA from putting a franchise in?
Yeah, the NHL had a knee-jerk reaction to the WHA getting ready to set-up shop.

I can't completely nail the NHL to wall for the decision. If I'm not mistaken, aside from thwarting the WHA, I believe there was still the Robert Moses-esque vision of suburbia supplanting the city lifestyle. And at the time, the economics of the NHL were vastly different as players still had little leverage and salaries were kept low.

Perhaps some ebb and flow to that first one, but the second reality isn't going anywhere so teams have to look at ways to maximize revenues in order to fund legitimate, big-time operations.

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I do look forward to potentially going to Teachers Federal Credit Union Arena in Heartland one day(hopefully).
I'm hoping for the Bethpage Federal Credit Union Center or 1-800-Flowers Arena.

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05-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #69
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I go to a few devils games a year. The hub of NJ transit is Newark Penn 2 block away from the Rock and the place is empty. However they are pretty popular team. Planes, Trains,& Automobiles be dammed the problem is economic, cyclical unperforming, old outdated arena. The perfect storm for relocaton.

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05-15-2012, 09:08 PM
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I go to a few devils games a year. The hub of NJ transit is Newark Penn 2 block away from the Rock and the place is empty. However they are pretty popular team. Planes, Trains,& Automobiles be dammed the problem is economic, cyclical unperforming, old outdated arena. The perfect storm for relocaton.
Shouldn't Devil fans worry about July 1st and the Devils $80m IOU?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...ntent=Business
Devils feeling heat from debt
New Jersey 1, Vanderbeek minus $80M

Despite the team’s unexpected postseason run to the Eastern Conference finals, owner Jeff Vanderbeek, months after he began looking for a co-owner to help bail him out of an overdue $80 million debt, still hasn’t found that angel investor.

And the July 1 deadline is looming ever closer.

Beginning on that date, lenders can force the team into default.

“Winning doesn’t change the value,” a source said, especially since the team already has a good long-term media deal with the MSG Network.

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05-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #71
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Man I absolutely hate this whole limbo thing. We all have our biases and opinions, myself included, but honestly when we hit that hard deadline, I would take any of the 4 counties on the Island proper just to get this in the rear view mirror.

No matter how I feel now, I guarantee you I will be celebrating when they play that first home game in a new arena as long as I can get to it without having to use a bridge or tunnel (or airplane for that matter). First round will be on me.
We'll remind you of that

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05-15-2012, 09:24 PM
  #72
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Shouldn't Devil fans worry about July 1st and the Devils $80m IOU?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...ntent=Business
Devils feeling heat from debt
New Jersey 1, Vanderbeek minus $80M

Despite the team’s unexpected postseason run to the Eastern Conference finals, owner Jeff Vanderbeek, months after he began looking for a co-owner to help bail him out of an overdue $80 million debt, still hasn’t found that angel investor.

And the July 1 deadline is looming ever closer.

Beginning on that date, lenders can force the team into default.

“Winning doesn’t change the value,” a source said, especially since the team already has a good long-term media deal with the MSG Network.
I guess they should be, and there are even more issues with re-signing stars. I would love to see zach in a Islanders jersey....

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05-16-2012, 12:00 AM
  #73
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Mangano said Friday that within the next month, he will have a proposal for the site that could compete for state funds and meet the June 15 deadline. But those funds, to be divided among 10 regions across the state, would provide only a fraction of what's needed to build a new arena, make infrastructure improvements and provide for parking. The entire Long Island region will receive a maximum of $25 million for capital projects.

Council co-vice chairman Kevin Law said a "real plan with commitments" must be in place by the end of 2012.

Mangano said Friday that he stopped the RFP effort when Picker said in mid-February that Wang would not bid on the RFP

"It would summarily end any opportunity to keep the Islanders," Mangano said Friday of an RFP without the team's involvement. "We really would not have accomplished our primary goal, which is still to retain the Islanders and to create a sports entertainment destination."

Since then, said Rabinowitz, "it's been very quiet."

Hempstead Town Supervisor Kate Murray, meanwhile, said the town will be flexible. "Once a developer is designated, we're ready, willing and able to sit down and have a conversation and try to work this out so that the Islanders stay and we get good development once and for all," she said.

Law said there have been recent conversations and efforts to develop a new plan, but the discussions have occurred out of the public eye.

Sources with knowledge of discussions about other potential local sites said the Coliseum's current location is not the only Long Island option. Belmont Racetrack and spots in Suffolk County, including Suffolk Community College's Brentwood campus, are not off the table, they said.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/p...-say-1.3715942
mobile link

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...ed:i=1.3715942

Legislative Minority Leader Kevan Abrahams (D- Freeport ) says there still is time to develop a plan for the arena. But noting Mangano's recent campaigns to privatize the county sewer system and reorganize the county's police precincts, Abrahams said: "It does not seem like the Coliseum has been a priority for this administration. The county executive needs to sit down with developers to put up money to get the project up and rolling."

I wonder whether the Nassau County Democrats will sling mud on the Isles (on top of Mangano) during the next County Executive election campaign IF the Isles reach an agreement to play elsewhere post 2015.

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05-16-2012, 01:24 AM
  #74
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Yeah, the NHL had a knee-jerk reaction to the WHA getting ready to set-up shop.

I can't completely nail the NHL to wall for the decision. If I'm not mistaken, aside from thwarting the WHA, I believe there was still the Robert Moses-esque vision of suburbia supplanting the city lifestyle. And at the time, the economics of the NHL were vastly different as players still had little leverage and salaries were kept low.

Perhaps some ebb and flow to that first one, but the second reality isn't going anywhere so teams have to look at ways to maximize revenues in order to fund legitimate, big-time operations.



I'm hoping for the Bethpage Federal Credit Union Center or 1-800-Flowers Arena.
That is true. But you also have to look at why, the WHA wanted to set up shop at a newly developed coliseum in Nassau. The Demographics for your typical hockey fan, plus the distance from NYC, made it a very desirable location to develop a NEW hockey franchise. And while 40 years has passed, the fact of the matter is, the same Demographics that made Long Island ripe for hockey then, is still in place and much bigger on Long Island then in Brooklyn.

The Islanders problem on Long Island has been horrible owners. When I was growing up, the Islanders were huge on Long Island. But they also were competing for and winning Stanley Cups, just like the Rangers and Devils are doing right now. Isn't that what everyone considers exciting?


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05-16-2012, 01:37 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
Man I absolutely hate this whole limbo thing. We all have our biases and opinions, myself included, but honestly when we hit that hard deadline, I would take any of the 4 counties on the Island proper just to get this in the rear view mirror.

No matter how I feel now, I guarantee you I will be celebrating when they play that first home game in a new arena as long as I can get to it without having to use a bridge or tunnel (or airplane for that matter). First round will be on me.
How come there is no "like" option on posts. Instead of having to reply to show my like for a post it'd be easier to just +1 it or something. Anyway, this post should be in the back of everyone's mind to not forget!

LeapOnOver is offline  
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