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Vladimir Tarasenko Discussion Thread (III) -- NHL bound (Filed with NHL)

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05-14-2012, 02:54 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
Flew right over my head. Can't believe I would miss a quote like that.



As for Tara, either way this really played out should be good for the kid. If he didn't play well, then he knows he better bust butt in the off season.

If it was political, then more of a reason to get to the NHL soon.

Personally, I think the kid will learn a few "Perron lessons" when he gets over here. I do however think he will adjust quicker than Perron in a lot of ways.
If its political, I think his mind is already made up.

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05-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  #227
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The Shawshank Redemption.
Yep. Best movie ever. Poor Brooks got institutionalized.

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05-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
And considering that Bykov was fired because "his team didn't have young players", what are we seeing now?
Bykov was fired because his teams started sucking, and Zakarkhin is an arrogant loudmouth. Remember his comments before the olympics? "Don't worry everybody, we know how to defeat Canadians!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
So, Russia's answer to Mike Keenan, then?

Bilyaletdinov is A LOT like Hitchcock......and Bilyaletdinov/Hitchcock are very different from what Tarasenko was used to in Sibir where he was given free reign.

I remember almost being laughed off this board when I made the comment that Tarasenko might (repeat might) have some trouble adjusting to Hitchcock.

But like Acallabeth said, its better that Tarasenko learn these lessons now than to be in for a rude awakening when he shows up in North America. Its all part of the learning process for young players.

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05-14-2012, 03:05 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Bykov was fired because his teams started sucking, and Zakarkhin is an arrogant loudmouth. Remember his comments before the olympics? "Don't worry everybody, we know how to defeat Canadians!"






Bilyaletdinov is A LOT like Hitchcock......and Bilyaletdinov/Hitchcock are very different from what Tarasenko was used to in Sibir where he was given free reign.

I remember almost being laughed off this board when I made the comment that Tarasenko might (repeat might) have some trouble adjusting to Hitchcock.

But like Acallabeth said, its better that Tarasenko learn these lessons now than to be in for a rude awakening when he shows up in North America. Its all part of the learning process for young players.
So ... Bilyaletdinov has a problem with Russian players?

We don't have to get back into it, but let's not spin and misrepresent how you cast Hitchcock, where you were out of your depth.

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05-14-2012, 03:20 PM
  #230
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Cryptic quote from JR's twitter feed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Rutherford
Regarding today's blog about the Russian nat'l coach questioning Tarasenko's conditioning level: Hearing that it's NOT a matter of Tarasenko being out of shape. More about Tarasenko bulking up (possibly for NHL) and how that's affected his game in their eyes.
I honestly don't know how to interpret that. How can bulking up be a bad thing in anyone's eyes? Maybe they think he's too slow?

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05-14-2012, 03:24 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
So ... Bilyaletdinov has a problem with Russian players?

We don't have to get back into it, but let's not spin and misrepresent how you cast Hitchcock, where you were out of your depth.
Who said anything about Russians?

I said Hitchcock isn't a "player's coach". Hitchcock has his style (strong 2-way, north american game) and runs a tight ship about it. If you don't fit into the system, you're gone. Its very unlike a Bruce Boudreau or whoever.

This is what Tarasenko is learning under Bilyaletdinov....and why I said he might have issues adjusting under Hitchcock.

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05-14-2012, 03:31 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Bykov was fired because his teams started sucking, and Zakarkhin is an arrogant loudmouth. Remember his comments before the olympics? "Don't worry everybody, we know how to defeat Canadians!"






Bilyaletdinov is A LOT like Hitchcock......and Bilyaletdinov/Hitchcock are very different from what Tarasenko was used to in Sibir where he was given free reign.

I remember almost being laughed off this board when I made the comment that Tarasenko might (repeat might) have some trouble adjusting to Hitchcock.

But like Acallabeth said, its better that Tarasenko learn these lessons now than to be in for a rude awakening when he shows up in North America. Its all part of the learning process for young players.
Free reign? Either you have a misconception about how Tarasenko was used in Sibir or google translate strikes again when it comes to Russian. I assume you're referring to just this past season for Sibir where he FINALLY got to play on the 1st line and also get some decent PP time(AGAIN...for the 1st time in 4 seasons). He also scored a couple of hattricks on SKA's 4th line with incredibly limited minutes post trade. It's not like he's been just floating around in Sibir for 4 seasons with top minutes in top situations.

By the way, I have no problem with any of your previous commentary, but lets at least be accurate as to what Tarasenko's situation was over the past 4 seasons in Sibir.

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05-14-2012, 03:53 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post

I guess you visit every practice of Team Russia and watched every Tarasenko game this season? That "dominant" player was just terrible for the national team that plays tight defensive hockey, entirely different from his clubs. Bilyaletdinov is a big NHL fan as well. You'd better get at least some information before you embarass yourself.



Bykov was fired because he was hated by entire Russian hockey community after his (Zakharkin's, to be entirely correct) arrogant comments, because he couldn't control players who saw him as a buddy not as a coach, because his coaching was at "let's play hockey men!" level, because the team SUCKED more and more. He actually played very young Tarasenko and Kulikov, invited Burmistrov for the 2011 WC.

If Bill says that Tarasenko wasn't ready to play at World Championship level, you gotta believe him. Maybe he really wasn't physically ready (he's built as a very big guy and maybe had some excessive weight), but I think that Bilyaletdinov's remark referred to Vova not being able to play his game. Maybe the reason was indeed thinking too much of himself after a great season, maybe he was frustrated because his team wasn't that good. Maybe just tired. Any way, it's better to be put to Earth this way (not being selected for the national team and having a lot of time to prepare yourself for the next season) than to come over, not make the Blues and waste time in the AHL.
Alright, Bykov was fired on account of we lost Olympic and played in Vancouver really bad. Then we lost another WC and people got mad. They said a lot of things about Bykov and Zaharkin. But they couldn't say anything based on heavy facts. Because facts told that B&Z were the most succesful coaches since Tikhonov era. So people started to invent facts. One of them was saying that there is no new young players in the team to prepare them for Sochi.

And then Bilyaletdinov came, and his team was god awful in most games before this WC. Without Malkin, i'm sure, it would keep being god awful. And most russian fans hated Bilyaletdinov before WC even more than Bykov. Now our media praise him, but for what? Yeah, because Malkin in his beast mode is more than enough to beat 7 teams on preliminary stage.

Alright, Malkin is great - really astonish fact nobody knew before. But who else? Yeah, the same people Bykov used. And where are new players who will help Malkin and Co when they will play vs teams which have not worse stars (perhaps even better)? Bilyaletdinov keep saying those new players aren't ready. But wasn't he named a coach to bring them and give them possibility to get more experience in "meaningless tournaments" (i.e. any tournaments save Sochi Olympic)?


Last edited by Kshahdoo: 05-14-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old
05-14-2012, 04:39 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Alright, Bykov was fired on account of we lost Olympic and played in Vancouver really bad. Then we lost another WC and people got mad. They said a lot of things about Bykov and Zaharkin. But they couldn't say anything based on heavy facts. Because facts told that B&Z were the most succesful coaches since Tikhonov era. So people started to invent facts. One of them was saying that there is no new young players in the team to prepare them for Sochi.

And then Bilyaletdinov came, and his team was god awful in most games before this WC. Without Malkin, i'm sure, it would keep being god awful. And most russian fans hated Bilyaletdinov before WC even more than Bykov. Now our media praise him, but for what? Yeah, because Malkin in his beast mode is more than enough to beat 7 teams on preliminary stage.

Alright, Malkin is great - really astonish fact nobody knew before. But who else? Yeah, the same people Bykov used. And where are new players who will help Malkin and Co when they will play vs teams which have not worse stars (perhaps even better)? Bilyaletdinov keep saying those new players aren't ready. But wasn't he named a coach to bring them and give them possibility to get more experience in "meaningless tournaments" (i.e. any tournaments save Sochi Olympic)?

Right, but there are currently no better option than Bilyaletdinov (wow, thats sad). Bykov lost the confidence of players after Vancounver's debacle. Bragin?...maybe 2018 olympics. At least Bilyaletdinov has a track record of winning.

Yeah, nobody's happy with Bilyaletdinov..but don't tell me you're suprised he's not trusting young players. He's never trusted young players.


Last edited by Zine: 05-14-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
05-15-2012, 12:40 AM
  #235
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JR has written a piece for Tuesday's Post based on a "source close to the situation." If I had to guess, I'd guess it's Mike Liut who's the source, but that's merely a guess. He quotes Armstrong, so it's unlikely Armstrong is on the record for some comments but anonymous for others.

Quote:
In an interview with Sovetsky Sport, a Russian media outlet, Zinetula Bilyaletdinov, the coach of the national team, indicated that Tarasenko was left off because of his conditioning level.

"This young man still needs to learn," Bilyaletdinov said told Sovetsky Sport. "And to understand that there's a completely different level here. To play in the world championships you need to prepare. Tarasenko came in such a condition that I thought he wasn't quite prepared. I don't know what it is related to. I wouldn't want to discuss Vladimir's attitude to work. But he needs to learn a certain lesson."

When the Sovetsky Sport reporter asked if having Tarasenko in the national team's camp for one month following St. Peterburg's playoff exit was enough time to get him into shape, Bilyaletdinov responded: "We shouldn't be doing it! Of course we tried. But players must come prepared. This is not a club, but the national team."

Multiple sources, however, said that Tarasenko is in shape, and they speculated that he might have been "bulking up" for his indoctrination into the NHL, and that's what upset the national team. Another source indicated that Tarasenko's unwillingness to commit to playing in Russia next season is the reason behind him sitting out the world championships.

Regardless, Armstrong said that he was not disappointed to hear the news.

"No, the political games, not only for the Russian country, but ... everyone views the world championships differently," he said. "Being part of it a few different times (with Team Canada), you're looking at players for potential Olympics, you're looking at them for different things.

"He made it last year. He had a good season (this year) and he isn't on the roster this year. Why that is, I don't speak Russian, so I'm not sure exactly why he isn't on the team. But that has zero concern for me on whether we think he should come to the NHL. We think he should come to the NHL. I hope he does come to the NHL. But I preface that by saying, if he doesn't, he is still 21 years old. He's got a great career ahead of him. We hope he comes."

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05-15-2012, 12:59 AM
  #236
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@Siberian91Tiger Tweeted

Quote:
Tarasenko: "I respect the coach's opinion" - "I don't want to discuss it" - "I will make a decision after World Championship" #stlblues
Quote:
Saw today that KHL & SKA President Medvedev says Sibir now has the rights to Tarasenko. Interesting, but does it matter?

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05-15-2012, 03:23 AM
  #237
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Actually, I guess that Tarasenko not in WC roster is better for Blues. Because it's obvious now you gotta be an NHL star to get in the team. Being a KHL star isn't enough.

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05-15-2012, 03:31 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
He didn't play well for the national team, big deal. Lots of players have bad tournaments.
But it is a big deal. Bill isn't choosing players for the Blues, so he primarily looks at how the player responds to his coaching and how well does he play for Russia. And he was much worse in each EHT stage than he was in Sibir' and SKA, not some random tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
We're talking about a country that players used to have to defect from to play in the NHL. They don't have to go to such actions now, but Russia is still known for strong handing whoever they can if they benefit from it.
No wonder Tarasenko didn't make the CCCP team
I understand that stereotypes are hard to break, but no players are kept in Russia against their will. Instruments for keeping players in the KHL are money and playing in motherland, not some threats.

Kshahdoo, I'm not saying that Bilyaletdinov is the best coach ever, but it was time to part ways with Bykov (maybe even too late), and Bill was a good option. It's early to judge ZHB, but I must say you're not entirely correct about "all the same players" - there are 7-8 players now playing their 1st WHC.

Tarasenko bulking up too much and losing a bit of explosiveness is a believable reason. Occam's razor: if a player can be cut because of hockey factors, don't look for non-hockey factors...

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05-15-2012, 04:08 AM
  #239
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Hahahahahaha how can anyone talk of Occam's Razor and then take at face value the absurd notion that someone in three weeks can pack on so much muscle that he literally goes from THE absolute dominant playoff performance (given time on ice) to unable to perform competently? All the while in WC training camp, mind you.

For months and months, the talk from Russian hockey officials has been about what's good for these young players is staying in Russia so they're more prepared for the Olympics, a completely self-interested transparent angle. Kuznetsov and Tarasenko are taking different directions in regard to NHL/KHL, and lo and behold the one who does the thing they want him to do is given a prime spot on the WC team and the one who's not doing what they want has his character publicly ripped by the coach and sent home. And someone comes here referring to the coach on a first-name basis as if they're friends and invokes Occam's Razor to say yeah, it's probably Tarasenko's fault.

It gets more ludicrous by the day in this thread.

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05-15-2012, 04:50 AM
  #240
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OK.

It doesn't matter a tiny bit that one player scored 3 goals during EuroTour games while the other didn't score a single one and looked invisible.
It doesn't matter that Kuznetsov is scoring as much as his 2 linemates combined (one of them being Datsyuk).
It doesn't matter that team roster features Yemelin and Nikitin who went to the NHL just a year ago, as well as several other NHLers. I guess this is to show Tarasenko he'll never be selected to team Russia if he goes to the NHL.
It doesn't matter that a lot of the KHL players were cut, including several Ak Bars players who were coached by Bill himself the previous season.
It doesn't matter that the KHL and FHR have some serious conflicts with KHL backing off a bit in this borderline war.
It doesn't matter that ZHB hasn't ever said a bad word about the NHL, often picturing it as an example for the KHL.
God forbid to suppose Tarasenko may actually not being ready to play at the World Championship level.

No, it's all about some mysterious powers wanting Tarasenko not to come across the Atlantic and threatening him with roster spot. I guess mafia, KGB and communist party all have their influence.

Good luck with this logic.

Oh and if you're not comfortable with someone calling a coach by his nickname, I'm more than fine with you calling him Zinetula Khaidarovich Bilyaletdinov all the time.

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05-15-2012, 09:22 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
OK.

It doesn't matter a tiny bit that one player scored 3 goals during EuroTour games while the other didn't score a single one and looked invisible.
It doesn't matter that Kuznetsov is scoring as much as his 2 linemates combined (one of them being Datsyuk).
It doesn't matter that team roster features Yemelin and Nikitin who went to the NHL just a year ago, as well as several other NHLers. I guess this is to show Tarasenko he'll never be selected to team Russia if he goes to the NHL.
It doesn't matter that a lot of the KHL players were cut, including several Ak Bars players who were coached by Bill himself the previous season.
It doesn't matter that the KHL and FHR have some serious conflicts with KHL backing off a bit in this borderline war.
It doesn't matter that ZHB hasn't ever said a bad word about the NHL, often picturing it as an example for the KHL.
God forbid to suppose Tarasenko may actually not being ready to play at the World Championship level.

No, it's all about some mysterious powers wanting Tarasenko not to come across the Atlantic and threatening him with roster spot. I guess mafia, KGB and communist party all have their influence.
My opinion, you're extraordinarily naive if you think politics has no part whatsoever in this decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
Good luck with this logic.

Oh and if you're not comfortable with someone calling a coach by his nickname, I'm more than fine with you calling him Zinetula Khaidarovich Bilyaletdinov all the time.
What's wrong with just "Bilyaletdinov?" I don't call Hitchcock "Hitch," as some of my fellow Blues' fans do.

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05-15-2012, 09:39 AM
  #242
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Prior to the comments by the coach, I'd have been willing to accept that Tarasenko was left out for hockey reasons. Tarasenko has had plenty of opportunities in the National team this season and not taken advantage of them, he has no right to expect to play at the World Championships. As for arguments about other players not performing either, they are irrelevant. You pick the best team, not the best group of individuals, and maybe the coach would have thought other players provided that. Fine.

Calling into question his fitness and work ethic is a joke though. He was one of the 2 or 3 hardest working players at Sibir when it came to training and practice and I doubt that suddenly changed in St. Petersburg. Some playoff points are hardly going to go to his head when he was still only getting 11 minutes a game. I simply don't buy that he wasn't prepared. Training in a way that didn't please the coach is certainly something I would believe though...


Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
@Siberian91Tiger Tweeted

Quote:
Saw today that KHL & SKA President Medvedev says Sibir now has the rights to Tarasenko. Interesting, but does it matter?


If that is true, then I give up on any defense I have ever made of the KHL.

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05-15-2012, 09:51 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
My opinion, you're extraordinarily naive if you think politics has no part whatsoever in this decision.
My opinion is that Bill isn't an enemy for himself and his team. Expectations for his team's performance at the Worlds are very high, and he won't allow some stupid politics hurt his team. Again: there're hockey reasons for Tarasenko not to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
What's wrong with just "Bilyaletdinov?" I don't call Hitchcock "Hitch," as some of my fellow Blues' fans do.
Nothing wrong, it's just long and easy to misspell. I called him by his last name as well on this exact page.

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05-15-2012, 10:07 AM
  #244
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My opinion is that Bill isn't an enemy for himself and his team. Expectations for his team's performance at the Worlds are very high, and he won't allow some stupid politics hurt his team. Again: there're hockey reasons for Tarasenko not to play.
Even if I bought the Hockey reasons angle; what happened to using these "meaningless tournaments" to get young players ready for the Olympics?

Don't try to play the "Russia wants to win the WC's" card; Russia views these games as little more than Pre-Season games to get their team in order for 2014 and they've already put that on public record. You don't cut a guy and publicly humiliate him from a Tournament team who's entire stated goal is to prepare for an Olympic Tournament 2 years later. Even if there were Hockey reasons to cut the guy; you keep it quiet and give the kid a work plan to improve. There are only 2 reasons to do things the way they did; you are trying to put political pressure on the kid or your coach is a complete and total idiot. Given ZKB's resume, I doubt it was the latter.

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05-15-2012, 10:44 AM
  #245
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05-15-2012, 11:13 AM
  #246
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Even if I bought the Hockey reasons angle; what happened to using these "meaningless tournaments" to get young players ready for the Olympics?

Don't try to play the "Russia wants to win the WC's" card; Russia views these games as little more than Pre-Season games to get their team in order for 2014 and they've already put that on public record. You don't cut a guy and publicly humiliate him from a Tournament team who's entire stated goal is to prepare for an Olympic Tournament 2 years later. Even if there were Hockey reasons to cut the guy; you keep it quiet and give the kid a work plan to improve. There are only 2 reasons to do things the way they did; you are trying to put political pressure on the kid or your coach is a complete and total idiot. Given ZKB's resume, I doubt it was the latter.
you just have no idea, do you

Thank you, I had a good laugh at all the conspiracy theories here

There is reality- what actually happens day to day in Stockholm, and then there is this thread. You guys are simply in the dark.. I don't know another way to put it. Russia is 7-0.

If Tarasenko was worthy of being in the line up, he would be playing. There are players who are better than him. End of story.

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05-15-2012, 11:19 AM
  #247
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1 question:

If the National Team was so riddled with favouritism, why is EVERY NHL Russian so willing to play for it? Do you honestly think they would put up with that crap?
It was corrput 20 years ago and NHLers were declining invites left and right.
Hmmm... I wonder whats changed?

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05-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
1 question:

If the National Team was so riddled with favouritism, why is EVERY NHL Russian so willing to play for it? Do you honestly think they would put up with that crap?
It was corrput 20 years ago and NHLers were declining invites left and right.
Hmmm... I wonder whats changed?
I would think it would be obvious. If you are already under contract with an NHL team and a veteran, you're unlikely to be treated that way. However if you're a young guy yet to sign with your NHL squad......Russian brass is a lot more likely to try and influence you. They have little in the way of leverage with the NHL guys and they know it, so they just invite them.

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05-15-2012, 12:09 PM
  #249
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you just have no idea, do you

Thank you, I had a good laugh at all the conspiracy theories here

There is reality- what actually happens day to day in Stockholm, and then there is this thread. You guys are simply in the dark.. I don't know another way to put it. Russia is 7-0.

If Tarasenko was worthy of being in the line up, he would be playing. There are players who are better than him. End of story.
And if the coach had just stuck to that and not given a bull**** excuse about conditioning, we would be more likely to accept it at face value. Face it, the coach opened his mouth without thinking and elaborated when he should have just said,"no comment" or "I feel I have the best guys in" or "best mix of guys in right now".

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05-15-2012, 12:18 PM
  #250
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And if the coach had just stuck to that and not given a bull**** excuse about conditioning, we would be more likely to accept it at face value. Face it, the coach opened his mouth without thinking and elaborated when he should have just said,"no comment" or "I feel I have the best guys in" or "best mix of guys in right now".
Lol, honestly - how do you know it was BS? How do you know that Tararsenko was in shape? If anything, 6 games before the WC that he played for NT, he was invisible. I think he had 0 points in all those games. That's more proof than anything that he wasn't ready.

You guys can think whatever you want, I don't really care. I saw the interviews, I heard the tone of voice the coach used (you didn't!), I saw ALL the interviews and ALL the games leading up to this. You guys are filling in your lack of knowledge about what is going on with complete and made-up BS, based on stereotypes and Russophobia politics

But if it makes you happy, keep going.

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