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Vladimir Tarasenko Discussion Thread (III) -- NHL bound (Filed with NHL)

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05-15-2012, 12:23 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by TK 421 View Post
I would think it would be obvious. If you are already under contract with an NHL team and a veteran, you're unlikely to be treated that way. However if you're a young guy yet to sign with your NHL squad......Russian brass is a lot more likely to try and influence you. They have little in the way of leverage with the NHL guys and they know it, so they just invite them.
So then where does Burmistrov stand with this. He is young, has an NHL contract and did not make the cut.

Also, tell me who this "Russian Brass" is? I really want to know, since you seem to know who makes the decisions around there. Also tell me their relations to FHR, KHL and the Olympic Comittee.

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05-15-2012, 12:27 PM
  #252
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Funny how Tarasenko and Burmistrov, two guys who are being pressured to sign in the KHL that haven't signed yet, are cut from this team. If Tarasenko isn't good enough this year, how was he good enough to make the team last year? From his KHL stats it looks like he has improved his game since last year. In an article today in the St. Louis paper the GM from the Blues mentioned that he thinks politics has something to do w/ his exclusion from the NT. Hopefully Tarasenko will announce he is coming over to the NHL and be able to continue to improve his game. If he wants to improve his game he needs to play against the best competition. If he is successful in the NHL the NT will want him for the Olympics in 14'.

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05-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #253
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Considering the pressure facing Russia in the 2014 Olympics, I don't see them taking this tournament lightly. I have a hard time believing they would risk putting together the best possible team at an Olympic dress rehearsal tournament to send a message to one very young player. I'm going to wait and see before I delve into political theories about a nation that loves to win hockey tournaments.

But that's just a Canadians opinion.

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05-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #254
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We can go back and fourth on this forever, but as of now, no one knows what the real reasons Tarasenko is not on the team. Everything is just speculation.

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05-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #255
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Homeboy look fat. He bulk up the wrong way?

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05-15-2012, 12:43 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Lol, honestly - how do you know it was BS? How do you know that Tararsenko was in shape? If anything, 6 games before the WC that he played for NT, he was invisible. I think he had 0 points in all those games. That's more proof than anything that he wasn't ready.

You guys can think whatever you want, I don't really care. I saw the interviews, I heard the tone of voice the coach used (you didn't!), I saw ALL the interviews and ALL the games leading up to this. You guys are filling in your lack of knowledge about what is going on with complete and made-up BS, based on stereotypes and Russophobia politics

But if it makes you happy, keep going.
First off, don't label me as "you guys", I'm an individual opinion and I haven't criticized the coaches decision. I criticized his transparent excuse of Tarasenko not being well conditioned enough(seriously give me a ****ing break with that) as the reason he's not in the lineup. By the way, do YOU know that he wasn't in good enough condition? You could have just stopped at,"he didn't produce at NT level." and that would have been enough for me personally and I'm sure most would have accepted that as a reason. The coach left this topic and himself WIDE OPEN for critcism with his "lack of conditioning" bs.

You say he just wasn't good enough to crack the roster? I'm fine with that. I'm not basing anything on stereotypes, I'm basing it on a coach coming up with a really, really obviously bull**** excuse that he very easily could have avoided and didn't.

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05-15-2012, 01:06 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by TK 421 View Post
First off, don't label me as "you guys", I'm an individual opinion and I haven't criticized the coaches decision. I criticized his transparent excuse of Tarasenko not being well conditioned enough(seriously give me a ****ing break with that) as the reason he's not in the lineup. By the way, do YOU know that he wasn't in good enough condition? You could have just stopped at,"he didn't produce at NT level." and that would have been enough for me personally and I'm sure most would have accepted that as a reason. The coach left this topic and himself WIDE OPEN for critcism with his "lack of conditioning" bs.

You say he just wasn't good enough to crack the roster? I'm fine with that. I'm not basing anything on stereotypes, I'm basing it on a coach coming up with a really, really obviously bull**** excuse that he very easily could have avoided and didn't.

He was talking about your response to my post.

You said the 'Russian brass' is likely to try and influence non-NHLers on the national team.

Just wondering if you know what you're talking about?...or just making a blanket statement based on stereotype? Who is this 'Russian brass'? Who makes these decisions? What relation do they have to the FHR? KHL? Russian olympic committee? Do these individuals (individual) have a history of doing such things?

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05-15-2012, 01:09 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
So then where does Burmistrov stand with this. He is young, has an NHL contract and did not make the cut.

Also, tell me who this "Russian Brass" is? I really want to know, since you seem to know who makes the decisions around there. Also tell me their relations to FHR, KHL and the Olympic Comittee.
I answered in another reply to you, but I'll say it again. I never questioned the coaches decision, just his obviously bs reasoning which he could have avoided. If you're actually defending that obviously bs reasoning.....then I think you and I are done here.

My god, you really like to argue don't you? I get that you don't like some of the opinions on the Blues board but generalizing and claiming Russophobia is not the way to get people to take you seriously. Again, you could have just said he wasn't good enough(perfectly okay opinion) and people here would have probably accepted it as face value even if they didn't share that opinion.

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05-15-2012, 01:20 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
He was talking about your response to my post.

You said the 'Russian brass' is likely to try and influence non-NHLers on the national team.

Just wondering if you really know what you're talking about?...or was it a blanket statement based on stereotype? Who is this 'Russian brass'? Who makes these decisions? What relation do they have to the FHR? KHL? Russian olympic committee? Do these individuals (individual) have a history of doing such things?
While I applaud your efforts to vet these allegations that the "Russian brass" are irrationally and/or illogically biased against Tarasenko, can you provide evidence that the so-called "Russian brass" is NOT demonstrating irrational and/or illogical bias against Tarasenko?

The onus of providing proof can be placed all around, especially when we have no idea what is really happening. In fact (pun intended), it is much easier to disprove something than it is to prove something. And many scientists and scholars subscribe to the Popper school of thought that nothing can be proven; we can only disprove.

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05-15-2012, 01:21 PM
  #260
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Oh...and...another name for conspiracy theory is conspiracy fact.

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05-15-2012, 01:30 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
He was talking about your response to my post.

You said the 'Russian brass' is likely to try and influence non-NHLers on the national team.

Just wondering if you know what you're talking about?...or just making a blanket statement based on stereotype? Who is this 'Russian brass'? Who makes these decisions? What relation do they have to the FHR? KHL? Russian olympic committee? Do these individuals (individual) have a history of doing such things?
Is it really that difficult a concept to grasp? If the best you two can do is question my "Russian brass" terminology then this discussion is going nowhere. Tell you what..if you don't like my comments, then illuminate me as to why the coach would give such a flimsy excuse when he could have just said he had the mix of players he wanted already. Neither you nor Fulcrum has bothered to address that yet, and it's my only problem with your commentary.

The bottom line is I don't care nearly as much about this as the both of you do. I'm simply looking forward to seeing Tarasenko play in person.

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Old
05-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #262
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Homeboy look fat. He bulk up the wrong way?
Doesnt look fat too me.

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05-15-2012, 01:38 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by TK 421 View Post
Is it really that difficult a concept to grasp? If the best you two can do is question my "Russian brass" terminology then this discussion is going nowhere. Tell you what..if you don't like my comments, then illuminate me as to why the coach would give such a flimsy excuse when he could have just said he had the mix of players he wanted already. Neither you nor Fulcrum has bothered to address that yet, and it's my only problem with your commentary.

The bottom line is I don't care nearly as much about this as the both of you do. I'm simply looking forward to seeing Tarasenko play in person.
What if it is as simple as the coach didn't like his new conditioning regiment to prepare for the NHL? It fits in with the comments.

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05-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #264
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"Tarasenko would be fantastic. I'd take something around Staal+ for Stewart and Tarasenko."

Hehe, spotted it on a Pens' board.

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05-15-2012, 01:45 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
While I applaud your efforts to vet these allegations that the "Russian brass" are irrationally and/or illogically biased against Tarasenko, can you provide evidence that the so-called "Russian brass" is NOT demonstrating irrational and/or illogical bias against Tarasenko?

The onus of providing proof can be placed all around, especially when we have no idea what is really happening. In fact (pun intended), it is much easier to disprove something than it is to prove something. And many scientists and scholars subscribe to the Popper school of thought that nothing can be proven; we can only disprove.

It's a stupid call on Bilyaletdinov's part, but its a coaching decision, not a political one.

Like I already stated, if politics were prevalent, NHLers would stay away.....just like they did in the 1990s.
Remember Malkin's mistreatment and 'defection to the NHL'....well he was back in Moscow playing for the NT the minute the Penguins' season ended. I wonder why?...oh, that's right, the FHR is different from the domestic league and both have different agendas.

I already explained in this post, and is why there are many conflcting statements and opinions of the 'higher ups' in Russian hockey.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=157


But of course we should lump everybody together and call it one big 'conspiracy theory'...right?

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05-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Homeboy look fat. He bulk up the wrong way?
Idk if you're jk but he's wearing a jacket which makes everyone look chubbier, but it doesn't look like he's gained fat from his face.

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05-15-2012, 01:47 PM
  #267
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The amount of stereotyping and bigotry being used as 'speculation' in this thread (and St. Louis media/blogs) is simply astounding.....and made by individuals who know nothing about how Russian hockey works, FHR, who controls what, etc.
Its quite sad actually.

"OMG, our Golden Boy didn't make the team? It must be politics, KHL favouritism, (add your own negative Russian hockey stereotype)!!!!".

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05-15-2012, 01:51 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
It's a stupid call on Bilyaletdinov's part, but its a coaching decision, not a political one.

Like I already stated, if politics were prevalent, NHLers would stay away.....just like they did in the 1990s.
Remember Malkin's mistreatment and 'defection to the NHL'....well he was back in Moscow playing for the NT the minute the Penguins' season ended. I wonder why?...oh, that's right, the FHR is different from the domestic league and both have different agendas.

I already explained in this post, and is why there are many conflcting statements and opinions of the 'higher ups' in Russian hockey.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=157


But of course we should lump everybody together and call it one big 'conspiracy theory'...right?
Most of our behaviors are politically motivated. It is just how we are. Just look at our "political" selves outside of the context of what our culture usually refers to as "politics".

Think about various "political" scenarios in the workplace and you can start to see that just about everything we do is intrinsically political.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but offering a perspective that hasn't yet been offered in this thread.

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05-15-2012, 01:54 PM
  #269
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What if it is as simple as the coach didn't like his new conditioning regiment to prepare for the NHL? It fits in with the comments.
Not liking his conditioning regimen is one thing. To claim he's not well conditioned enough RIGHT NOW to get in the lineup is total crap and a flimsy excuse at best. This same coach is using dog tired NHLers who have very little left in the tank after a long season. Now if you want to say these are the best guys to have in regardless of them being less than 100%, fine. But if you're using the conditioning excuse for Tarasenko while trotting out tired players.....the logic looks really faulty. There is no disputing that the coach left himself wide open for criticism on this one.

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05-15-2012, 01:55 PM
  #270
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Guys, I think it's been explained that the translation of the NT coach saying Tarasenko was out of shape was incorrect. It was a bad translation. From what I understand, he more meant that he didn't conform to the style of game he wanted to play and that there was no fit for him on the team, especially when Ovie & Semin were added.

As for Tarasenko simply not earning a spot vs. him completely being blackballed, I suspect that the truth is somewhere in-between.

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05-15-2012, 01:56 PM
  #271
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Idk if you're jk but he's wearing a jacket which makes everyone look chubbier, but it doesn't look like he's gained fat from his face.
He wore his coat to practice in, which greatly influenced his aerodynamics. Got to pay attention to detail!



I kid

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05-15-2012, 01:58 PM
  #272
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Guys, I think it's been explained that the translation of the NT coach saying Tarasenko was out of shape was incorrect. It was a bad translation. From what I understand, he more meant that he didn't conform to the style of game he wanted to play and that there was no fit for him on the team, especially when Ovie & Semin were added.

As for Tarasenko simply not earning a spot vs. him completely being blackballed, I suspect that the truth is somewhere in-between.
Usually is.

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Old
05-15-2012, 02:08 PM
  #273
TK 421
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
The amount of stereotyping and bigotry being used as 'speculation' in this thread (and St. Louis media/blogs) is simply astounding.....and made by individuals who know nothing about how Russian hockey works, FHR, who controls what, etc.
Its quite sad actually.

"OMG, our Golden Boy didn't make the team? It must be politics, KHL favouritism, (add your own negative Russian hockey stereotype)!!!!".
This is a great example of making your true feelings on the matter known and thus eroding your position. You know.....just like the coach did.

All right then, good talk buddeh. Now run along and get your ****ing shinebox.

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05-15-2012, 02:11 PM
  #274
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Also, Bilyaletdinov is a huge NHL fan (he's a former assistant coach for PHX and WPG).

He just gave major props to the NHL, saying its player development, individualized player regimens, coaching, etc. are unmatched.

Link: http://allhockey.ru/news/122498/

Why would a coach who's allegedly trying to keep Tarasenko away from the NHL say such a thing?

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05-15-2012, 02:19 PM
  #275
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Lets keep the talk objective as possible. Also, lets DROP the tone. Keep it about hockey not each other.

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