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How Much do Captains Actually Matter?

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Old
05-14-2012, 03:49 PM
  #51
jonrazor12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plante View Post
I love threads like these. Makes it obvious on which posters have played any kind of competitive hockey or not.
....or any team sport for that matter.

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05-14-2012, 03:51 PM
  #52
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the c is just who the team thinks is most respected by the officials the majority of the time, we have no idea what happens in the locker room

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05-14-2012, 03:53 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plante View Post
I love threads like these. Makes it obvious on which posters have played any kind of competitive hockey or not.
cause in high school or travel hockey its not usually the best player on the team that is given the c or maybe the seniors if it is a high school team

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05-14-2012, 04:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Xander Crews View Post
But the C on your jersey wont change this... if youre leader and the team looks to you to lead then it doesnt matter if you have a C on your jersey or not.

My opinion of a player isnt going to change because he was named captain. Im not suddenly like 'oh wow I guess maybe I should listen to him now that hes been named captain'.

Leaders matter for sure but the 'Captain' doesnt matter at all. A team would be just as good with no official captain.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

The basis for your logic seems to be derived from teams like Vancouver and Washington in which their respective captains happen to be their best players and not necessarily their best leaders.

Just because some organizations fail at properly assigning the role of captain does not mean the role is meaningless.

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05-14-2012, 04:36 PM
  #55
Xander Crews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrazor12 View Post
I understand the point you are trying to make, but it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

The basis for your logic seems to be derived from teams like Vancouver and Washington in which their respective captains happen to be their best players and not necessarily their best leaders.

Just because some organizations fail at properly assigning the role of captain does not mean the role is meaningless.
You actually dont seem to have any clue what im trying to say. But the role is meaningless... because whoever you think is the best leader will be the best leader with or without the C on their jersey.

I wish I knew who you thought as the best leader in the league so i could use that as an example but since I dont lets just use something classic like Yzerman. He was a great leader and he would have been a great leader without the C.

Leaders lead, they dont need permission from a letter sewn to their jersey to do that. People who arent leaders arent leaders even with the C. Ovie is not a good leader and giving him the C wont change that because its a meaningless thing. Player know who they respect and listen too and they will respect and listen to who they want to, not who they are told is the captain.

Like pretend Ovie and Yzerman were on the same team... Ovie get named captain. Do you think that would matter and Yzerman wouldnt be a leader since he didnt have the C? Hell no, he would have been a great leader still because the players would know to look up to him. The captaincy doesnt change that.

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05-14-2012, 04:41 PM
  #56
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I'd say that it's a combination of good coaching and leadership-by-committee among the locker room's veteran players.

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05-14-2012, 04:43 PM
  #57
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I think they play a pretty critical role on a team.

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05-14-2012, 04:46 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrazor12 View Post
....or any team sport for that matter.
haha I was the winningest player on my HS tennis team my senior year in our winningest season in SCHOOL HISTORY,

and raced for NH states THREE YEARS (our of four) for skiing

not to mentioned I played rec hockey and soccer for like 10 years each

I love the condescending attitude though

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05-14-2012, 05:39 PM
  #59
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The importance of who the one guy who has a C on his jersey is, is overrated. Most teams have a core of leaders.

Of course there are extremes: inspirational leaders who have a big positive effect (Messier, Yzerman, etc), and then guys like Ovechkin who are coach killers, don't lead even by example and refuse to buy into the team concept...

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05-14-2012, 06:22 PM
  #60
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I think it depends on the team. Hockey is an emotional sport where good leadership can pay real dividends. The 'C' may not be a necessary symbol to be a leader, but it is a symbol that carries meaning. That meaning will be more powerful depending on the team.

I think about the Devils in two different situations. Scott Stevens was captain of the Devils for the longest time. There are plenty of stories floating around about how Stevens would flip out and scare the **** out of players who got lazy or defeated or stepped out of line. Jeff Friesen used to tell a great story about how, after the Devils tied the then-defending champion Red Wings in the regular season, Stevens flipped out and told the team they didn't play hard enough. Friesen said, "I thought he was going to throw a skate at me." The Devils recovered and won the cup that year.

Stevens was captain of a team that (although not by 2003) was young and up-and-coming. Guys like Brodeur, Niedermayer, Elias, Sykora, Madden, etc benefited from having a veteran guy in that position. He functioned in a lot of ways as another coach. It didn't hurt that he put the fear of God in the players. The 'C' was an important way to elevate him to that level and give him that kind of authority.

Contrast that with Zach Parise. Parise is by all accounts a great lead-by-example captain: the hardest working guy in the game, a golden boy who scores at big times and everyone likes. I'm sure that's good for something, but the Devils don't really need him. They are a veteran squad, and frequently mention Hedberg, Brodeur, Salvador, Clarkson and Zajac as important leaders in addition to the lettered guys (Parise, Elias, Kovalchuck). Giving a guy the 'C' symbol doesn't really add anything to this setup.

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05-14-2012, 06:36 PM
  #61
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05-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Is there something that isn't overrated on HFBoards?

A Captain is something you either underrate because you have a great one of your team, or it's overrated because you have a terrible one on your team and think it isn't as needed.
No, but opinions are overrated.

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05-14-2012, 06:55 PM
  #63
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...much less than an overall solid core that's on the same page.

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05-14-2012, 07:22 PM
  #64
jonrazor12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
haha I was the winningest player on my HS tennis team my senior year in our winningest season in SCHOOL HISTORY,

and raced for NH states THREE YEARS (our of four) for skiing

not to mentioned I played rec hockey and soccer for like 10 years each

I love the condescending attitude though

News flash buddy...

Tennis and skiing are not team sports.

I did not say you didn't play a sport.

I said team sport. There is a difference.

And thanks for clarifying that the highest level of play you achieved was high school.

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05-14-2012, 07:45 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews View Post
You actually dont seem to have any clue what im trying to say. But the role is meaningless... because whoever you think is the best leader will be the best leader with or without the C on their jersey.

I wish I knew who you thought as the best leader in the league so i could use that as an example but since I dont lets just use something classic like Yzerman. He was a great leader and he would have been a great leader without the C.

Leaders lead, they dont need permission from a letter sewn to their jersey to do that. People who arent leaders arent leaders even with the C. Ovie is not a good leader and giving him the C wont change that because its a meaningless thing. Player know who they respect and listen too and they will respect and listen to who they want to, not who they are told is the captain.

Like pretend Ovie and Yzerman were on the same team... Ovie get named captain. Do you think that would matter and Yzerman wouldnt be a leader since he didnt have the C? Hell no, he would have been a great leader still because the players would know to look up to him. The captaincy doesnt change that.

Your point is actually very clear.

You are failing to see the true significance of a captain's role.

Try and use your logic and apply it to the army. Let's say there are a 100 men (privates) in the heat of battle being lead by one man (captain). The privates don't have confidence in the captain and look toward one of their own to instill confidence. But the captain still gives the orders regardless and the privates follow. The men who made that man captain made a wrong choice similar to Washington making the wrong choice when they chose ovechkin as captain.

Same point can be applied to the business world. Some people don't respect their boss but they still follow them.

Point is, there is a necessary hierarchy in almost every aspect of life. You find it in the military, business, sports, even nature. It helps create order.

To put it simply, captains play a important role in all professional team sports, including hockey. Unfortunately, some organizations tend to give the C to players who are considered "franchise" players. Players who are either the most talented or who are under the longest and most expensive contract.

Organizations should be choosing captains based on their ability to lead by example and command attention and respect. I said this exact statement in my original post. Maybe now you can understand what I mean by it.

If it wasn't a necessary aspect of the game, then it wouldn't exist.

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05-14-2012, 10:48 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrazor12 View Post
News flash buddy...

Tennis and skiing are not team sports.

I did not say you didn't play a sport.

I said team sport. There is a difference.

And thanks for clarifying that the highest level of play you achieved was high school.
Haha what an arrogant one you are

Sorry that not everyone can play collegiate sports like you Mr. Athletics, if I may you call you that

And they aren't team sports in the way that hockey is but its still a team per say. And in tennis you play doubles, as in with a teammate. Im willing to bet a ski captain has to do a lot more than a hockey captain would.

Congrats to you for being so athletic and cool though dude, I wish I could be like you one day and belittle other people who didnt play college sports on an internet message board

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05-14-2012, 11:10 PM
  #67
jonrazor12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
Haha what an arrogant one you are

Sorry that not everyone can play collegiate sports like you Mr. Athletics, if I may you call you that

And they aren't team sports in the way that hockey is but its still a team per say. And in tennis you play doubles, as in with a teammate. Im willing to bet a ski captain has to do a lot more than a hockey captain would.

Congrats to you for being so athletic and cool though dude, I wish I could be like you one day and belittle other people who didnt play college sports on an internet message board
Give me a break.

I'm not downplaying tennis or skiing for that matter. I love tennis and it is one of the most demanding sports there is. Same with skiing. But they are in no way a team sport. And in no way can you argue that someone can accurately gauge the importance and responsibilities of a captain of a professional team when said person has zero personal experience regarding the matter. It's absolutely ridiculous for people to imply that having a captain is meaningless. It's almost as ridiculous when you try and compare a individual sport to a team sport.

I apologize for belittling you. I admitt it came across like I was. I never do that. And for the record, I have never in the past mentioned on this board my "athletic" experience. Someone asked in this thread and I replied. I was in no way trying to belittle anyone but just answering a question.

I apologize for the hs comment. What you did is still a tremendous accomplishment and I respect that.

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05-14-2012, 11:15 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrazor12 View Post
Give me a break.

I'm not downplaying tennis or skiing for that matter. I love tennis and it is one of the most demanding sports there is. Same with skiing. But they are in no way a team sport. And in no way can you argue that someone can accurately gauge the importance and responsibilities of a captain of a professional team when said person has zero personal experience regarding the matter. It's absolutely ridiculous for people to imply that having a captain is meaningless. It's almost as ridiculous when you try and compare a individual sport to a team sport.

I apologize for belittling you. I admitt it came across like I was. I never do that. And for the record, I have never in the past mentioned on this board my "athletic" experience. Someone asked in this thread and I replied. I was in no way trying to belittle anyone but just answering a question.

I apologize for the hs comment. What you did is still a tremendous accomplishment and I respect that.
When did I say I have no experience regarding the matter? When did I even say captains weren't important? I just said HF tends to over hype them

I did play hockey from 3rd grade to 10th grade, and soccer from like age 6 to age 16. Not really at a very competitive level but the fact remains

Its all good, and I laughed at you calling it a tremendous accomplishment haha. My tennis team went 5-11 the year we set the record for the most wins hahaha. We weren't very good. Skiing is different though and pretty competitive in NH lol

No worries.. And good on you for playing in NCAA

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05-14-2012, 11:24 PM
  #69
jonrazor12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
When did I say I have no experience regarding the matter? When did I even say captains weren't important? I just said HF tends to over hype them

I did play hockey from 3rd grade to 10th grade, and soccer from like age 6 to age 16. Not really at a very competitive level but the fact remains

Its all good, and I laughed at you calling it a tremendous accomplishment haha. My tennis team went 5-11 the year we set the record for the most wins hahaha. We weren't very good. Skiing is different though and pretty competitive in NH lol

No worries.. And good on you for playing in NCAA

In regards to experience and importance of captains, I was referring to the majority of people in general.

But with all do respect, you don't have the experience. Even in college the captaincy was not that important. Both on my soccer and hockey team. But it was of major importance during my season and a half of pro ball. It's night and day.

Just food for thought, because a lot of people will say its a coincidence and it just my be, look at the four remaining teams and their captains.

Brown
Doan
Parise
Callahan

There is a trend there. Now whether or not it has anything to do with the fact that they are still playing is a whole other argument. IMO, it has at least something to do with it.

And lol at your tennis record. Good job at making it sound like you broke state records.

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05-15-2012, 08:14 AM
  #70
Robert Theodorson
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The only thing a captain is good for is yaking to the refs as long as he possibly can to delay them after an icing where his team is dog tired.

You need to have good media relations skills too, but that has nothing to do with on ice play.

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Old
05-15-2012, 12:22 PM
  #71
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If Toews was healthy, the Hawks would still be in the playoffs.


Thats how much of an impact Captains caould have.

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05-15-2012, 12:41 PM
  #72
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the actually "C" is meaningless, other than that who knows

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05-15-2012, 02:59 PM
  #73
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Captains absolutely matter. It's got to be guys that are good leaders though, not just the best player. Just as well, the coach has to trust a captain to be an extention of himself and to make good decisions for the team. I know baseball doesn’t have captains, but look at the Cardinals when Pujols was here. We had an elite coach in Tony La Russa, yet he still allowed Albert to call his own hit-and-run plays because he trusted him to make good decisions. A coach of that caliber wouldn’t just let anyone do that.

Do you honestly think the Rangers picked Ryan Callahan for his sheer scoring? Where would the Rangers be without him blocking 7,346 shots per game?

Same could be said here in St. Louis with Backes as our captain. He might also be our best all-around player (debatable) but he plays his absolute heart out and the kids on that team absolutely look up to him and completely buy the fact that he is their leader….the kind of guy who studies engineering in college, saves stray/abused animals on the weekends, and gets their pilot’s license in their spare time. Point being, your captain is usually your smartest, most determined, most well-rounded on and off the ice, most hard-working leader in your locker room (or at least they should be….looking at you, Ovy.)

tl;dr captains absolutely matter but must be someone who can lead and garners the respect of his peers.

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