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Old
05-15-2012, 03:07 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Sergei is 25 years old. He isn't done improving. Regardless of what pred fans thnk, Legwand is a serviceable #2 Center. I would be happy with Fisher in the 3rd center role, but that means spending 7 million in a top line center, which aren't available unless you trade for him.

as far as the we needing a top center to reach potential, the Kings top 2 centers outscored the preds by 16 points. That is Kopitar and Richards vs Fisher and Legwand 120 pts vs 104. I'm sorry, but 16 points is not worth the extra 4 million per year, which is what fishers 3.5 and (insert center fantasy here)'s 7.5 million.


no team will be perfect. ever. the past few years was we need a better power play. boom. done. then it was we need experience and size on the blue line. boom. done. We need a top 6 forward. boom done. then it was, we need a top 3 gamebreaker. boom. done. Now, since we have gotten all those without a cup, we need all those things and a 7-8 million dollar center? I don't think so. It would be nice. I think a few bad breaks/not creating our own puck luck vs Phoenix has clouded people's vision of what this team was/is. Now, when Suter makes his mind up, we can really identify needs for this team. right now, we are all playing NHL 12 on HF Boards
Oh really so when have players reached their potential 30? SK has had 5 solid years in the NHL with 3 of them being sent back and forth to the AHL. His last 18 playoff games have resulted in 1 goal and 6 assists.
Exactly Legwand is a "serviceable" 2nd line center. That means yeah he can fill in if you do not have someone else.

The debate is about are need for a top line center and you just admitted yourself that you would be happy with Fisher in a 3rd center role and that Legwand is a serviceable 2nd line center. So again who is are legit number 1 center?

Lol you can compare points and i will argue compare the talent they are working with. Kopitar is head and shoulders better than any center we currently have and he is 24. The numbers compare with Richards but none of are guys touch Kopitar, sorry.

Im sorry but having a top center talent like Kopitar and having the ability to put guys in a correct balance position would be worth the extra 4 million. What are you going to give big money to SK?

No this teams play did not cloud anyones mind of what this team truly is. All the lucky puck bounces and puck luck stopped after the Detroit series and we got shut down and guys like Legwand, Fisher, Horny, and SK got exposed big time. All the boom dones except for Webers power play were done at the trade deadline and one a couple of weeks before the playoffs. 90% of those boom dones are going to be gone this summer.

Im looking for boom dones to be signed to long term deals and a true member of the Nashville Predators not rent a Preds.

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05-15-2012, 05:20 PM
  #152
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for all this talk about our improved offense, its the reason we are no longer playing. 1 goal in the last 2 games.

LA didn't seem to have any problem dominating phoenix.. with their 40 SOGs. our forward corps are inept.

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05-15-2012, 06:24 PM
  #153
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Havent been on HF since we got eliminated. I also broke my computer and got a summer job in Knoxville. Ill be posting rarely but ill be on the forums reading all the time.

I think we need to get a true number 1 center. I think Suter is gone and he can be replaced within or by a cheap replacement. I dont think him leaving is the end of the world. But id love for him to be here.

Sk would be nice to have but not for much more than it is now. And he disappears for playoffs.
Blum and Wilson are 2 of the more important ones imo. If we dont retain them I think it would be a huge huge mistake.

Im excited about Ekholm to. Just hope we add firepower some how.

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05-15-2012, 07:35 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post

LA didn't seem to have any problem dominating phoenix.. with their 40 SOGs. our forward corps are inept.
You state that as though we didn't get 33 SOG, 73 shot attempts in game five. The Hawks averaged about 40 SOG against Smith ... did them a lot of good. The difference is the Kings hit the corners and open spots they aimed for, we either missed or drilled Smith's crest.

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05-15-2012, 07:59 PM
  #155
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You state that as though we didn't get 33 SOG, 73 shot attempts in game five. The Hawks averaged about 40 SOG against Smith ... did them a lot of good. The difference is the Kings hit the corners and open spots they aimed for, we either missed or drilled Smith's crest.
Too many shots wide or over the net!

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05-15-2012, 08:31 PM
  #156
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Oh really so when have players reached their potential 30? SK has had 5 solid years in the NHL with 3 of them being sent back and forth to the AHL.Sounds like a young player who needed to mature a bit rather than rushed. His last 18 playoff games have resulted in 1 goal and 6 assists. Can not argue that. Results offensively are unacceptable.
Exactly Legwand is a "serviceable" 2nd line center. That means yeah he can fill in if you do not have someone else. Maybe I misspoke. David Legwand is a NHL caliber second line centerman in the NHL you just can't plug someone in that role.

The debate is about are need for a top line center and you just admitted yourself that you would be happy with Fisher in a 3rd center role and that Legwand is a serviceable 2nd line center. So again who is are legit number 1 center? At some point you will figure out this team is built from the goal out. We have 3 lines we roll that can all do damage.

Lol you can compare points and i will argue compare the talent they are working with. Kopitar is head and shoulders better than any center we currently have and he is 24. The numbers compare with Richards but none of are guys touch Kopitar, sorry. I never said Kopitar sucked. I pointed out our two centers are not as bad as what you think. What are you going to point out talent wise? Jeff Carter and Dustin Brown are bums? They each have a running mate.

Im sorry but having a top center talent like Kopitar and having the ability to put guys in a correct balance position would be worth the extra 4 million. What are you going to give big money to SK? Never said that. How did the big money tandem of Datsyuk and Zetterburg work out? Or Crosby and Malkin? or Sedin and Kesler? Phoenix is getting by just fine with Antoinne vermette and Martin Hanzel. Back the truck up for those guys.

No this teams play did not cloud anyones mind of what this team truly is. The five game sample vs Detroit, we were world beaters, which we weren't. The five game sample vs PHO we were trash, which we aren't. The season ends with a loss or missed playoffs for 29 teams. We were better than all but what 4 or 5 teams in the reg season. and better than all but 6 in the playoffs? That is a successful year. It ended bittersweetly, but a good year. All the lucky puck bounces and puck luck stopped after the Detroit series and we got shut down and guys like Legwand, Fisher, Horny, and SK got exposed big time. Exposed? how were they exposed? lack of a backcheck for two games? our whole team let down after beating Det. hell, the fanbase did too. no one here respected the coyotes. even after losing some barely do. They have had a great 15 game run here, no doubt. Did we miss open nets? yep. Did we fail to convert scoring chances? yep. But I wouldn't say they were exposed. and if they were, please be specific what they were exposed for? Give me more than just the cliche. All the boom dones except for Webers power play were done at the trade deadline and one a couple of weeks before the playoffs. 90% of those boom dones are going to be gone this summer. The reason the PP was good was more than his shot. If you think otherwise, I beg you to actually watch the games. We had every tool we needed to make a long run. the boom done guys were a direct response to team needs. We may not need those parts in the future.

Im looking for boom dones to be signed to long term deals and a true member of the Nashville Predators not rent a Preds.
responses in bold

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05-15-2012, 08:40 PM
  #157
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You state that as though we didn't get 33 SOG, 73 shot attempts in game five. The Hawks averaged about 40 SOG against Smith ... did them a lot of good. The difference is the Kings hit the corners and open spots they aimed for, we either missed or drilled Smith's crest.
our shots were constantly being blocked or missing wide all series. majority of our SOGs were of poor quality. if you are really comparing our 33 SOGs to LAs 40 SOGs, I can't help you. LAs forwards were consistently moving and getting great scoring chance.

we had hornqvist doing that and missing everything. of course bourque, too. radulov created chances as well but dancing around with the puck aimlessly will only go so far.

I think we'll all see as this series goes on just how weak our forwards were come crunch time. we made phoenix look like the devils pre-lockout.

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05-15-2012, 08:59 PM
  #158
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LA up 1-0 again already. 15 SOGs in 1 period.

we couldn't even grab a lead in phoenix at ANY point. again, our forwards are inept come playoff time. missed chances, nets, passes, ect.. it goes on and on

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05-15-2012, 09:17 PM
  #159
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2-0 jeff carter scores... the guy no one wanted lol

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05-15-2012, 10:12 PM
  #160
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You state that as though we didn't get 33 SOG, 73 shot attempts in game five. The Hawks averaged about 40 SOG against Smith ... did them a lot of good. The difference is the Kings hit the corners and open spots they aimed for, we either missed or drilled Smith's crest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
our shots were constantly being blocked or missing wide all series. majority of our SOGs were of poor quality. if you are really comparing our 33 SOGs to LAs 40 SOGs, I can't help you. LAs forwards were consistently moving and getting great scoring chance.

we had hornqvist doing that and missing everything. of course bourque, too. radulov created chances as well but dancing around with the puck aimlessly will only go so far.

I think we'll all see as this series goes on just how weak our forwards were come crunch time. we made phoenix look like the devils pre-lockout.
Apparently you missed the bolded portion.

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05-15-2012, 10:14 PM
  #161
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Apparently you missed the bolded portion.
LAs chances and ours aren't comparable. they aren't missing the net cause their in prime scoring opportunities. we were shooting from the point through bodies.

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05-15-2012, 10:18 PM
  #162
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this coyote team isnt the same one we played. nothing going right for them

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05-15-2012, 10:20 PM
  #163
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this coyote team isnt the same one we played. nothing going right for them
I think LA is just better prepared and not screwing around. their star/top players are actually showing up, too.

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05-15-2012, 10:31 PM
  #164
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2-0 jeff carter scores... the guy no one wanted lol
Feeling smug, are we?

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05-15-2012, 10:53 PM
  #165
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Feeling smug, are we?
yeah his 5.5 cap hit is way too much. id way rather pay leggy and erat their 4.5 and fisher his what 4? they are clutch in the playoffs!!

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05-16-2012, 07:17 AM
  #166
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If the Preds couldn't win, LA would be my second choice to win the cup. They were a very hard team to play against in the regular season and one team I didn't like playing against in the regular season and wouldn't want to play against in the playoffs. So I'm not surprised by how well they are playing. Also, sometimes just barely making the playoffs and being the underdogs having to fight for a playoff spot is a great motivator too. They seem to be hitting their stride just in time. They will be the team I will be rooting for to win the cup.

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05-16-2012, 12:55 PM
  #167
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yeah his 5.5 cap hit is way too much. id way rather pay leggy and erat their 4.5 and fisher his what 4? they are clutch in the playoffs!!
And Carter is? Granted a hat trick is a big deal...but he had a whopping ONE goal this playoffs before last night, playing with a high-end center in Richards all the while.

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05-16-2012, 02:30 PM
  #168
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And Carter is? Granted a hat trick is a big deal...but he had a whopping ONE goal this playoffs before last night, playing with a high-end center in Richards all the while.
you don't think those two are a little pissed/jaded/angry about how it all went down in Philly, do ya ... trying to stick it to Holmgren by winning the Cup & those two having big time games along with Dustin Brown seems like a recipe for disaster for the ECC

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05-16-2012, 05:37 PM
  #169
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And Carter is? Granted a hat trick is a big deal...but he had a whopping ONE goal this playoffs before last night, playing with a high-end center in Richards all the while.
carter was on sk's level before this years playoffs. he has been great these playoffs imo. its more than scoring goals. carter is a big body that finds the front of the net. we definitely could have used him against phoenix..

oh and guess what, we still need that big number 1 center

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05-16-2012, 05:46 PM
  #170
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Carter would have been a terrible fit for us. Him finally waking up (over halfway into the playoffs) doesn't change that. Not to mention Columbus wanted 1 great piece for him, not a package of smaller pieces, which is all we could have offered. He needs to be with his BFF Mikey in a party city. Very very happy we didn't make the Carter mistake like Columbus.

Getting a new #1C over an offseason is a very tall order. There are teams out there who have been trying to get one for years. There is a lot of luck involved. The days of building your team through trades and free agency are over. You have to build from within, but the catch-22 being we don't have a great track record of drafting and developing top forwards (we're improving though).

I do agree that this is what our team is missing. Pretty much all the conference winners in the past decade have had a bona fide #1C. All we can do at this point is cross our fingers and hope one becomes available.

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05-16-2012, 06:03 PM
  #171
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I don't think carter was ideal but he would be a nice addition

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05-16-2012, 08:46 PM
  #172
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Oh really so when have players reached their potential 30? SK has had 5 solid years in the NHL with 3 of them being sent back and forth to the AHL.Sounds like a young player who needed to mature a bit rather than rushed. His last 18 playoff games have resulted in 1 goal and 6 assists. Can not argue that. Results offensively are unacceptable.
It sounds like to me you are coming up with excuses. SK is 30yo with a lot of playing time. No reason what so ever in what he turns into during long periods in the season and when stuff is on the line. I would rather pay someone else who is going to atleast contribute all year not a game here or there and disappear when it counts.

Exactly Legwand is a "serviceable" 2nd line center. That means yeah he can fill in if you do not have someone else. Maybe I misspoke. David Legwand is a NHL caliber second line centerman in the NHL you just can't plug someone in that role.

Legwand is a 3rd line center at best. Everyone in the NHL knows he is not a threat 90% of the time and is going to pass it off to someone else. Can he get in the right spots for rebounds if not challenged, yes. Can he hit open nets at the end of games, yes. Can he do the same move in shootouts and get goals, yes. Other than that a lot of guys can bring what he brings to the table these days.

The debate is about are need for a top line center and you just admitted yourself that you would be happy with Fisher in a 3rd center role and that Legwand is a serviceable 2nd line center. So again who is are legit number 1 center? At some point you will figure out this team is built from the goal out. We have 3 lines we roll that can all do damage.I am well aware this team is built from the goal out. I am aware that this team is big on defense and goaltending. I am also aware we have several lines that can do damage but you did not answer the ? A lot of typing but no answer to the ? at hand.

Lol you can compare points and i will argue compare the talent they are working with. Kopitar is head and shoulders better than any center we currently have and he is 24. The numbers compare with Richards but none of are guys touch Kopitar, sorry. I never said Kopitar sucked. I pointed out our two centers are not as bad as what you think. What are you going to point out talent wise? Jeff Carter and Dustin Brown are bums? They each have a running mate.

Dustin Brown was on the trading block in Feb. Jeff Carter got on the team in Feb. Kopitar is the one with the majority of the numbers. I never said i thought are centers were bad. I clearly said they are not 1st and 2nd line centers. I challenge you to compare Fisher or Legwand to 70% of other teams top line centers. They do not even come close.

Im sorry but having a top center talent like Kopitar and having the ability to put guys in a correct balance position would be worth the extra 4 million. What are you going to give big money to SK? Never said that. How did the big money tandem of Datsyuk and Zetterburg work out? Or Crosby and Malkin? or Sedin and Kesler? Phoenix is getting by just fine with Antoinne vermette and Martin Hanzel. Back the truck up for those guys. Ill tell you how it worked out. They scored but could not stop anyone else from scoring more. Tell me a playoff game were they scored 1 goal in 2 games? Who are you going to give the money to? How did Fisher, SK, and Legwand work out for the Preds?

No this teams play did not cloud anyones mind of what this team truly is. The five game sample vs Detroit, we were world beaters, which we weren't. The five game sample vs PHO we were trash, which we aren't. The season ends with a loss or missed playoffs for 29 teams. We were better than all but what 4 or 5 teams in the reg season. and better than all but 6 in the playoffs? That is a successful year. It ended bittersweetly, but a good year. All the lucky puck bounces and puck luck stopped after the Detroit series and we got shut down and guys like Legwand, Fisher, Horny, and SK got exposed big time. Exposed? how were they exposed? lack of a backcheck for two games? our whole team let down after beating Det. hell, the fanbase did too. no one here respected the coyotes. even after losing some barely do. They have had a great 15 game run here, no doubt. Did we miss open nets? yep. Did we fail to convert scoring chances? yep. But I wouldn't say they were exposed. and if they were, please be specific what they were exposed for? Give me more than just the cliche.
It was mentioned several times on TV!! that PHX was not even covering Fisher. What does that tell you? A team played hard playoff hockey defense and Legwand, Fisher, and SK could not handle it. Turnover machines. Horny can not hit the broad side of a barn bless his heart. I respected the coyotes so i would not go as far as saying "no one". Missing wide open nets and failing to convert on scoring chances was a black eye for the team all year. I challenge you to go back and either watch the games again or maybe a little closer. Why is that? Why when the defense got tighter we could not score?

All the boom dones except for Webers power play were done at the trade deadline and one a couple of weeks before the playoffs. 90% of those boom dones are going to be gone this summer. The reason the PP was good was more than his shot. If you think otherwise, I beg you to actually watch the games. We had every tool we needed to make a long run. the boom done guys were a direct response to team needs. We may not need those parts in the future.
Are you serious. You are trying to tell me that are PP was not based on a point shot from Weber the majority of the time? Wow, ok. When did you see someone else score on a power play in the playoffs besides someone from far away on the point and it going in or getting deflected? I watched every single game this year many of them in person and i am very sure that are PP strength was a point shot from Weber or another man deep parallel to him. Did AK and SK hook up vs Detroit late in the year, yeah. Not sure anything else stand out where you are begging me to actually watch the games to see.



My replies are underlined in bold

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05-16-2012, 10:01 PM
  #173
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The Preds hadn't even gotten pass the first round in the past. Yet the past two years they have. That's a step in the right direction imo.

Wonder how you guys dealt w/ not even getting past the first round if this loss is so horrible.

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05-16-2012, 10:19 PM
  #174
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Oh really so when have players reached their potential 30? SK has had 5 solid years in the NHL with 3 of them being sent back and forth to the AHL.Sounds like a young player who needed to mature a bit rather than rushed. His last 18 playoff games have resulted in 1 goal and 6 assists. Can not argue that. Results offensively are unacceptable.
It sounds like to me you are coming up with excuses. SK is 30yo with a lot of playing time. No reason what so ever in what he turns into during long periods in the season and when stuff is on the line. I would rather pay someone else who is going to atleast contribute all year not a game here or there and disappear when it counts.

Exactly Legwand is a "serviceable" 2nd line center. That means yeah he can fill in if you do not have someone else. Maybe I misspoke. David Legwand is a NHL caliber second line centerman in the NHL you just can't plug someone in that role.

Legwand is a 3rd line center at best. Everyone in the NHL knows he is not a threat 90% of the time and is going to pass it off to someone else. Can he get in the right spots for rebounds if not challenged, yes. Can he hit open nets at the end of games, yes. Can he do the same move in shootouts and get goals, yes. Other than that a lot of guys can bring what he brings to the table these days.

The debate is about are need for a top line center and you just admitted yourself that you would be happy with Fisher in a 3rd center role and that Legwand is a serviceable 2nd line center. So again who is are legit number 1 center? At some point you will figure out this team is built from the goal out. We have 3 lines we roll that can all do damage.I am well aware this team is built from the goal out. I am aware that this team is big on defense and goaltending. I am also aware we have several lines that can do damage but you did not answer the ? A lot of typing but no answer to the ? at hand.

Lol you can compare points and i will argue compare the talent they are working with. Kopitar is head and shoulders better than any center we currently have and he is 24. The numbers compare with Richards but none of are guys touch Kopitar, sorry. I never said Kopitar sucked. I pointed out our two centers are not as bad as what you think. What are you going to point out talent wise? Jeff Carter and Dustin Brown are bums? They each have a running mate.

Dustin Brown was on the trading block in Feb. Jeff Carter got on the team in Feb. Kopitar is the one with the majority of the numbers. I never said i thought are centers were bad. I clearly said they are not 1st and 2nd line centers. I challenge you to compare Fisher or Legwand to 70% of other teams top line centers. They do not even come close.

Im sorry but having a top center talent like Kopitar and having the ability to put guys in a correct balance position would be worth the extra 4 million. What are you going to give big money to SK? Never said that. How did the big money tandem of Datsyuk and Zetterburg work out? Or Crosby and Malkin? or Sedin and Kesler? Phoenix is getting by just fine with Antoinne vermette and Martin Hanzel. Back the truck up for those guys. Ill tell you how it worked out. They scored but could not stop anyone else from scoring more. Tell me a playoff game were they scored 1 goal in 2 games? Who are you going to give the money to? How did Fisher, SK, and Legwand work out for the Preds?

No this teams play did not cloud anyones mind of what this team truly is. The five game sample vs Detroit, we were world beaters, which we weren't. The five game sample vs PHO we were trash, which we aren't. The season ends with a loss or missed playoffs for 29 teams. We were better than all but what 4 or 5 teams in the reg season. and better than all but 6 in the playoffs? That is a successful year. It ended bittersweetly, but a good year. All the lucky puck bounces and puck luck stopped after the Detroit series and we got shut down and guys like Legwand, Fisher, Horny, and SK got exposed big time. Exposed? how were they exposed? lack of a backcheck for two games? our whole team let down after beating Det. hell, the fanbase did too. no one here respected the coyotes. even after losing some barely do. They have had a great 15 game run here, no doubt. Did we miss open nets? yep. Did we fail to convert scoring chances? yep. But I wouldn't say they were exposed. and if they were, please be specific what they were exposed for? Give me more than just the cliche.
It was mentioned several times on TV!! that PHX was not even covering Fisher. What does that tell you? A team played hard playoff hockey defense and Legwand, Fisher, and SK could not handle it. Turnover machines. Horny can not hit the broad side of a barn bless his heart. I respected the coyotes so i would not go as far as saying "no one". Missing wide open nets and failing to convert on scoring chances was a black eye for the team all year. I challenge you to go back and either watch the games again or maybe a little closer. Why is that? Why when the defense got tighter we could not score?

All the boom dones except for Webers power play were done at the trade deadline and one a couple of weeks before the playoffs. 90% of those boom dones are going to be gone this summer. The reason the PP was good was more than his shot. If you think otherwise, I beg you to actually watch the games. We had every tool we needed to make a long run. the boom done guys were a direct response to team needs. We may not need those parts in the future.
Are you serious. You are trying to tell me that are PP was not based on a point shot from Weber the majority of the time? Wow, ok. When did you see someone else score on a power play in the playoffs besides someone from far away on the point and it going in or getting deflected? I watched every single game this year many of them in person and i am very sure that are PP strength was a point shot from Weber or another man deep parallel to him. Did AK and SK hook up vs Detroit late in the year, yeah. Not sure anything else stand out where you are begging me to actually watch the games to see.



My replies are underlined in bold
I will be honest. I couldn't make it past the fact you keep saying sk is 30 years old. in five years, he will be. I may compare those two to the top two centers on teams. If they are better than the 30% I will never let you live it down here.

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05-16-2012, 11:06 PM
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Fisher and Legwand scored 104 points. The following tandems scored more:

Boston-Bergeron and Krejci-126
Colorado-Stastny and O'Reilly-108 btw, flavor of the onth Stastny had 53
Dallas-Benn and Riberio-116
Detroit-Zetterburg and datsyuk-131
LA-kopitar and Richards-120...Richards had only 44
New Jersey-Elias and Henrique-139
NYI-Tavares and Nielson-128
NYR-Richards and Stepan-117
Philliy-Giroux and Read-140
Pittsburgh-Malkin and Staal-159
SJ-Thornton and Pavelski-138
Tampa-Stamkos and Lecavlier-146
Vancouver-Sedin and Kesler-130

by my count that is 13 teams. We did tie with Carolina, but you said more points.

there are 30 teams, right? and 13 center tandems out produced our guys. 13/30 is what 43.33% I will give you that is halfway to your emotional uninformed opinion. But not close to 70% Sorry. Your opinion and made up stats are wrong.

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