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Old
05-13-2012, 10:25 PM
  #51
CobraAcesS
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Only thing is Stastny is no wheres close on being as good as Pleks on both sides of the puck. Stastny is better by a bot on the offensive part of the game but when it comes to the defensive part it's no contest.
Pleks,Eller+3rd rd pick is easily > Stastny.AINEC
Says you.. lol

How high am I suppose to be about Eller? Obviously not as high as you are and a 3rd rounder has very little value as a throw in.

Stastny is well known for his two-way game and as a playmaker. Good luck proving that Plekanec is way better defensively.

But you know what? I will prove that statistically Stastny was the better two-way player this year.

Stastny : Blocked Shots - 49 Give Aways - 24 Take Aways - 59 FO% - 55.4%

Plekanec : Blocked Shots - 57 Give Aways - 48 Take Aways - 43 FO% - 49.1%

Nice try though..

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:27 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Says you.. lol

How high am I suppose to be about Eller? Obviously not as high as you are and a 3rd rounder has very little value as a throw in.

Stastny is well known for his two-way game and as a playmaker. Good luck proving that Plekanec is way better defensively.

But you know what? I will prove that statistically Stastny was the better two-way player this year.

Stastny : Blocked Shots - 49 Give Aways - 24 Take Aways - 59 FO% - 55.4%

Plekanec : Blocked Shots - 57 Give Aways - 48 Take Aways - 43 FO% - 49.1%

Nice try though..
And this is suppose to prove what,

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Old
05-13-2012, 10:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
And is suppose to prove what,
Good one,

Your right takeaways vs giveaways, blocked shots, and face off percentages aren't used when evaluating defensive forwards. Never mind..

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Old
05-13-2012, 11:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
You people do realize it was a Habs fan that suggested this? Can we just agree that neither team likes this.

As to Stastny vs Plekanec ?

Plekanec is 29

Stastny is 26

Plekanec: GP-551 G-142 A-221 P-363 (.659 PPG%)

Stastny: GP-427 G-126 A-248 P-374 (.876 PPG%)

Stastny is younger, has produced more in less years and is just as good as Plekanec on both sides of the puck. Eller + 3rd rounder does not make the difference between a 1st line center and a second line center. Get over it..
I have nothing to get over. I will happily keep Eller, Pleks and the 3rd round pick, you can enjoy Stastny and the extra 1.6 million he costs you for the whole 1 point more production...lol.

Both are good defensive forwards. Both have had average years in terms of producing points for the last 2 seasons. Let's see what your 1.6 million more per season bought you last year:

4 more goals. 3 less assists. 1 more point. A better +/- by 7. 27 less hits (I thought Stastny was supposed to be the more physical player since he is so much bigger and needs to be stronger in the west), 8 less blocked shots, 24 less giveaways, 16 more takeaways, and 6% better face off percentage.

It gets even closer if you look at the season before the one that just passed:

The got the exact same number of goals, assists, and points. Stastny was -7, Plekanec +8, Stastny had 21 more hits, but 14 less blocked shots. Stastny had a 53% faceoff winning percentage to Plekanec's 50%.

So, give me the extra 1.6 million in cap space along with what Plekanec brings to our team, Eller, and the 3rd round pick over Stastny. Like I have maintained, Stastny, IS a BIT of an upgrade over Plekanec, and the age has a lot to do with that, but not to the degree that he would be worth taking on 1.6 million more dollars of salary cap space AND losing Eller and a 3rd round pick. If you think Stastny is that much better, and can not see why he isn't, well, maybe YOU should "get over it".

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Old
05-15-2012, 03:17 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Why replace Stastny with Plekanec and add Eller who would just be our 5th line center? Unless he can play top line minutes on the wing, it really makes no sense for our club. Overpayment or not, I'd rather keep Stastny than exchange him for two lesser centers (albeit not a significant downgrade, but enough in Pleks) when we're already as deep as we are down the middle.

It just doesn't make sense. Overpayment or not.
I disagree I would take this deal in a heartbeat although i do not think it is possible but to say no that easily for two extra top sixes (which is exactly what we need)


Edit:Although it seems most other avs fans disagree with me.... maybe the burgundy and blue 3D glasses I ordered aren't working properly


Last edited by outoftune: 05-15-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old
05-15-2012, 03:20 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Says you.. lol

How high am I suppose to be about Eller? Obviously not as high as you are and a 3rd rounder has very little value as a throw in.

Stastny is well known for his two-way game and as a playmaker. Good luck proving that Plekanec is way better defensively.

But you know what? I will prove that statistically Stastny was the better two-way player this year.

Stastny : Blocked Shots - 49 Give Aways - 24 Take Aways - 59 FO% - 55.4%

Plekanec : Blocked Shots - 57 Give Aways - 48 Take Aways - 43 FO% - 49.1%

Nice try though..
Thats not the best way to look at this at all................ although pleks is probably a better penalty killer than stastny and as to your point percentages from an earlier post.... its probably better to look post sakic stastny and compare those two players in the same years...... biases stats are not good stats

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Old
05-15-2012, 04:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Says you.. lol

How high am I suppose to be about Eller? Obviously not as high as you are and a 3rd rounder has very little value as a throw in.

Stastny is well known for his two-way game and as a playmaker. Good luck proving that Plekanec is way better defensively.

But you know what? I will prove that statistically Stastny was the better two-way player this year.

Stastny : Blocked Shots - 49 Give Aways - 24 Take Aways - 59 FO% - 55.4%

Plekanec : Blocked Shots - 57 Give Aways - 48 Take Aways - 43 FO% - 49.1%

Nice try though..
hmmmm... interesting... you are trying to prove that Stastny is worth more than Pleks? I don't think anyone has disputed that... I'll assume your reason for not trying to convince us using offensive stats is that, I believe, over the last two years there is about a 1 point difference in their production? Would I rather have Stastny? Of course, but that isn't the question.
The question is, does Eller + a 3rd make up the difference. You say no, I say more than should be needed. You can be as high on your centers as you want to be, Eller is still a possibly great 2-way 2C, and probably a great 2-way 3C... Maybe not this coming year (which I assume is the reason you underrate him) but for years forward. He can also play wing, as evidenced by his PPG pace in the WC...
If you're getting Pleks AND Eller, you should probably be ok with it... I really like Stastny, so I'd be willing to agree to the basics of this deal, but I feel it would be necessary overpayment, not fair value.

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Old
05-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #58
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No from both sides.
This guy gets it.

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Old
05-15-2012, 04:59 PM
  #59
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The only way this can be seen as an overpayment is if people is misreading the 3rd round pick for the 3rd overall pick. Eller can barely crack the Avs line up and a 3rd rounder in a weak draft isn't worth downgrading Stastny.

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Old
05-15-2012, 05:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
The only way this can be seen as an overpayment is if people is misreading the 3rd round pick for the 3rd overall pick. Eller can barely crack the Avs line up and a 3rd rounder in a weak draft isn't worth downgrading Stastny.
If you get a chance to watch Eller play next season as a Hab, it will be worth your time. He's not getting traded, especially if we trade Plekanec.

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05-15-2012, 05:40 PM
  #61
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Avs say hell no.

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:09 PM
  #62
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If you get a chance to watch Eller play next season as a Hab, it will be worth your time. He's not getting traded, especially if we trade Plekanec.
Yeah, hearing Avs fans in this thread talk about Eller reminds me of that polls' section thread where the very same fans kept complaining how we haven't watched Erik Johnson play because we happen to prefer Subban.

Oh, the irony.

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
The only way this can be seen as an overpayment is if people is misreading the 3rd round pick for the 3rd overall pick. Eller can barely crack the Avs line up and a 3rd rounder in a weak draft isn't worth downgrading Stastny.
Joke post of the year.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:02 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Joke post of the year.
To trade him now while his value as low as ever makes no sense. The only reason we'd trade Stastny is for an upgrade or a number 1 d man.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:15 PM
  #65
CB Joe
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You both should catch more Habs games then, because it really sounds like you don't really know who Lars Eller is. Looking at his sophomore stats on hockeydb won't help your arguments if you simply don't know much about his game.

I see him having more upside than McGinn, Downie, Mueller, Jones and Hejduk. Hejduk because he's close to retirement but he had a great career, and Mueller because at this point his injury woes would make me want to steer away from him big time even though he does have 1st line skills, so in this way a higher upside than Eller.

Anyhow, I believe this makes it close to 2/3.
I've watched Habs games before and have never been impressed by Eller. He plays far to undersized for my liking, and I don't see anything that makes me think he will even break out significantly offensively. I don't think he will ever be more than a third liner on most teams.

In my opinion McGinn, Downie, and Jones have had more success than Eller and seem to have more of a combination of skill and drive than Eller does.

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:15 PM
  #66
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Plek and a 3rd IMO is enough to get Statsny

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:35 PM
  #67
CobraAcesS
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Plek and a 3rd IMO is enough to get Statsny
After every single Avs fan says no you people still force the issue.

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05-15-2012, 09:06 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
After every single Avs fan says no you people still force the issue.
No, there is no forcing of any "issue". People are simply trying to gauge value. Yes, some Avs fans want to claim Stastny is worth more than Plekanec. Most Habs fans seem to agree. The disagreement is in how much of a discrepancy exists between them. A 3rd or a late 2nd would be the most in terms of the difference between them due to the many factors that have been pointed out throughout this thread. I know you don't agree, but you don't have anything of substance to support that position. Nobody is saying you have to accept a trade (especially since none of us can make trades), but you should try to see what is reasonable when it is clearly demonstrated to you.

Again, let the Avs keep Stastny, and let Montreal keep Plekanec, Eller, and the 3rd round pick. Both fan bases can walk away smiling in that scenario. Fair enough?

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05-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #69
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I've watched Habs games before and have never been impressed by Eller. He plays far to undersized for my liking, and I don't see anything that makes me think he will even break out significantly offensively. I don't think he will ever be more than a third liner on most teams.

In my opinion McGinn, Downie, and Jones have had more success than Eller and seem to have more of a combination of skill and drive than Eller does.
This just confirms what I thought. You've barely watched him. You could have said he's a bit lanky and awkward, lacks a bit of finish and that you don't see him putting his set of skills together to fulfill his upside, I would've had to acknowledge you actually do know him and are aware of his flaws, even though that would've been a pessimist assessment.

But saying he "plays undersized" and lacks "drive and skill": those are actually are some of his strengths! The guy can stickhandle in a phone booth, I strongly doubt McGinn and Jones can do that, and I most definitely know Downie can't! Eller also uses every bit of his size and strength to protect & cycle the puck. He's not the grittiest guy around, but he's a very determined and coachable workhorse.

All in all, just say you like your centre depth as is, I have no issue at all with that. But please keep your misinformed assessment based on probably less than a handful of games for yourself, or at the very least try to be honest about it.

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05-15-2012, 09:08 PM
  #70
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Plek and a 3rd IMO is enough to get Statsny
Ah ok then...Mueller + a 3rd is enough to get Pacioretty

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05-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
No, there is no forcing of any "issue". People are simply trying to gauge value. Yes, some Avs fans want to claim Stastny is worth more than Plekanec. Most Habs fans seem to agree. The disagreement is in how much of a discrepancy exists between them. A 3rd or a late 2nd would be the most in terms of the difference between them due to the many factors that have been pointed out throughout this thread. I know you don't agree, but you don't have anything of substance to support that position. Nobody is saying you have to accept a trade (especially since none of us can make trades), but you should try to see what is reasonable when it is clearly demonstrated to you.

Again, let the Avs keep Stastny, and let Montreal keep Plekanec, Eller, and the 3rd round pick. Both fan bases can walk away smiling in that scenario. Fair enough?
But this is HF, everything everyone says is a fact.

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05-15-2012, 09:12 PM
  #72
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Stastny is paid a lot and I'm not sure that he's a number 1 center on a contending team.

If the Avalanche would do Plekanec and a 2nd I'd be good with that.

It's not a big downgrade from Stastny to Plekanec despite what some Avs fans say and he's signed longer and a bit cheaper as well. Makes it easier to sign both O'Reilly and Duchene.

But with O'Reilly and Duchene maybe the Avs are more interested in a winger.

I personally don't see the Avs and Habs as good trade partners in any area.

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Old
05-15-2012, 09:14 PM
  #73
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Ah ok then...Mueller + a 3rd is enough to get Pacioretty
In a parallel universe where Mueller panned out as expected without his injury woes, he might even have more value than Patches!

Very, very skilled. Very, very limited trade value.

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Old
05-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #74
CobraAcesS
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Stastny is paid a lot and I'm not sure that he's a number 1 center on a contending team.

If the Avalanche would do Plekanec and a 2nd I'd be good with that.

It's not a big downgrade from Stastny to Plekanec despite what some Avs fans say and he's signed longer and a bit cheaper as well. Makes it easier to sign both O'Reilly and Duchene.

But with O'Reilly and Duchene maybe the Avs are more interested in a winger.

I personally don't see the Avs and Habs as good trade partners in any area.
That was posted earlier in the thread. Our needs are a top 6 winger. Better than McGinn (Right now), Mueller, & Jones or a LH defenseman that at least projects as a top pairing guy.

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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
This just confirms what I thought. You've barely watched him. You could have said he's a bit lanky and awkward, lacks a bit of finish and that you don't see him putting his set of skills together to fulfill his upside, I would've had to acknowledge you actually do know him and are aware of his flaws, even though that would've been a pessimist assessment.

But saying he "plays undersized" and lacks "drive and skill": those are actually are some of his strengths! The guy can stickhandle in a phone booth, I strongly doubt McGinn and Jones can do that, and I most definitely know Downie can't! Eller also uses every bit of his size and strength to protect & cycle the puck. He's not the grittiest guy around, but he's a very determined and coachable workhorse.

All in all, just say you like your centre depth as is, I have no issue at all with that. But please keep your misinformed assessment based on probably less than a handful of games for yourself, or at the very least try to be honest about it.
McGinn can actually stick handle in traffic really well btw and has a sick underrated wrist shot while being a power forward and extremely fast. He put up 13 points in 17 games after being paired with Stastny. Looking at his past seasons shooting percentages and how many shots he has (55 in 17 GP) after being traded. I am guessing that is exactly why management targeted him.

He has the speed, size and hands to turn into a top 6 power forward and he proved it after he was given a play-maker and more ice time.

I won't pretend to have watched Eller if you don't make assumptions about the wingers we already have.

I will admit the poster who made those comments about Eller is showing his ass. But don't do the same thing.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 05-15-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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Old
05-15-2012, 09:24 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
That was posted earlier in the thread. Our needs are a top 6 winger. Better than McGinn (Right now), Mueller, & Jones or a LH defenseman that at least projects as a top pairing guy.
Rene Bourque for a 4th round pick?

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