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2012 Canada-Russia junior summit

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Old
05-15-2012, 05:08 PM
  #101
Macman
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I'm anxious to see whether Canada can back up what you guys are saying that they will do. All your very best will be there, so there will no avenues of excuse open to you.
For the record, RNH won't be there. I think he would be the only one. You won't hear any excuses from me. Having only one missing is a dream. It's why I love summer tournaments.

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05-15-2012, 05:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Slay View Post
It's not really about population, but how much of that population involved into hockey. Otherwise we could bring China and a lot of other highly populated countries. Moscow has roughly 40 indoor rinks, Canada ~2500. In total Russia has ~340 indoor rinks spread through 9 time zones.
oh cool, comparing a city to a country is full of fail.

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05-15-2012, 05:53 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
For the record, RNH won't be there. I think he would be the only one. You won't hear any excuses from me. Having only one missing is a dream. It's why I love summer tournaments.
I agree with you. I don't think that the difference between winning or losing is based on the presence or absence of one player. So if, so some reason, Yakupov is not there, or Grigorenko is not there, that is not a basis for Russian fans saying their absence was the difference between winning and losing. It is more a reflection of the depth and quality of a national youth hockey program.

Yakupov is a good example. He may be the #1 NHL draft choice this year, and he may go into the NHL this fall and score a bunch of goals. But during the 2012 WJC, in 7 full games, he failed to score a single goal. There were several games where a little goal-scoring contribution from him would have been welcome, but he didn't deliver. That illustrates why I take issue with some posters who say that if a certain star was there, he would have easily scored 4 or 5 goals a game against "lesser" competition. Most of the kids who play at the top level of the WJC are a year or less away from playing in the NHL or equivalent pro level.

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05-15-2012, 06:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Lol. what's the point of arguing about this? you wouldn't change your opinion either way. NHL is god, every other league in the world is ****. If they don't play in NHL or they chose to play at home- they must be ****.

I'm not saying you can't form opinions, but for Canadians to form opinions on Russian players, whom they've only watched in WJC is NOT objective (except maybe Yakupov, Grigo). And that is exactly what you did above! From what you said about our top prospects, I can tell just how little you know of them. Please tell me about Kalinin, Panarin, Dvurechenskiy, Kosov, Prokhorkin, Marchenko, Gusev, Kucherov, Arzamastsev- I can keep going.... Do you even know any of them?! Did you know that they are considered very talented by the Russian experts and even NHL scouts? Did you know that most of them made a mark in the 2nd best league in the world this year? How was their season? Who stood out the most? Who is going to be invited to the NT?

And then Canadians act surprised when their team is loosing 6-1 in WJC to Russians. "How could our deep amazing Canadian team lose to these Russian 'superstars'?" "If only we had..."
When did I say this? That anyone outside the NHL is ****?

Not objective? Maybe our definition varies, but to me, objective means uninfluenced by outside factors. Me forming an opinion of a player based on what I see is objective. Me forming an opinion on a player based on the team he plays for or the country he comes from is not objective.

Yes, you're right... I've never heard of these 'top prospects'.... If any of them are any good, I'll know all about them in the next two or three years..... Right?

Or are they Nikita Filatov good? You know, the next one?

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05-15-2012, 07:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
When did I say this? That anyone outside the NHL is ****?

Not objective? Maybe our definition varies, but to me, objective means uninfluenced by outside factors. Me forming an opinion of a player based on what I see is objective. Me forming an opinion on a player based on the team he plays for or the country he comes from is not objective.

Yes, you're right... I've never heard of these 'top prospects'.... If any of them are any good, I'll know all about them in the next two or three years..... Right?

Or are they Nikita Filatov good? You know, the next one?
It was Pierre McGuire who said that Filatov is "a great, great talent... he is going to be a great one!" IMO, Filatov does have exceptional talent, and its not too late for him to emerge as a force in the KHL, if not the NHL.

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05-15-2012, 07:20 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I agree with you. I don't think that the difference between winning or losing is based on the presence or absence of one player. So if, so some reason, Yakupov is not there, or Grigorenko is not there, that is not a basis for Russian fans saying their absence was the difference between winning and losing. It is more a reflection of the depth and quality of a national youth hockey program.
You don't think that one player can make the difference between winning and losing? That is obviously incorrect. It is not to say that a single player will certainly change the results of a game, but to think that removing the best player from a team won't have a significant impact is crazy. Additionally, we aren't talking about taking away one player. Canada has often played without several of the top players. This year I believe it was the five best players. Other countries are generally missing far fewer. If Russia is without Grigorenko and Yakupov next year and lose to a complete Czech Republic team, Russian fans will be right to bring this up when Czech fans make ridiculous claims about having a better youth program than Russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Yakupov is a good example. He may be the #1 NHL draft choice this year, and he may go into the NHL this fall and score a bunch of goals. But during the 2012 WJC, in 7 full games, he failed to score a single goal. There were several games where a little goal-scoring contribution from him would have been welcome, but he didn't deliver. That illustrates why I take issue with some posters who say that if a certain star was there, he would have easily scored 4 or 5 goals a game against "lesser" competition. Most of the kids who play at the top level of the WJC are a year or less away from playing in the NHL or equivalent pro level.
It's misleading to talk about Yakupov's lack of goal scoring. Recording 9 assists in 7 games is still highly impressive. Anyway, most people in here are talking about players who are 18 or 19 years old. Those are the players who dominate the tournament year in and year out. No one from Canada is complaining about missing draft eligible players like Yakupov was this past year, so this is irrelevant. It's also completely disingenuous to act like the WJC is only barely "lesser" competition than the NHL. I'm hopeful that this series has as many of the eligible players as possible.

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05-15-2012, 08:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
oh cool, comparing a city to a country is full of fail.
I suggest reading the thread before you make stupid remarks. Someone said Moscow had 1/3 the population of Canada, that's why he referenced it.

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05-15-2012, 09:38 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
You don't think that one player can make the difference between winning and losing? That is obviously incorrect. It is not to say that a single player will certainly change the results of a game, but to think that removing the best player from a team won't have a significant impact is crazy. Additionally, we aren't talking about taking away one player. Canada has often played without several of the top players. This year I believe it was the five best players. Other countries are generally missing far fewer. If Russia is without Grigorenko and Yakupov next year and lose to a complete Czech Republic team, Russian fans will be right to bring this up when Czech fans make ridiculous claims about having a better youth program than Russia.



It's misleading to talk about Yakupov's lack of goal scoring. Recording 9 assists in 7 games is still highly impressive. Anyway, most people in here are talking about players who are 18 or 19 years old. Those are the players who dominate the tournament year in and year out. No one from Canada is complaining about missing draft eligible players like Yakupov was this past year, so this is irrelevant. It's also completely disingenuous to act like the WJC is only barely "lesser" competition than the NHL. I'm hopeful that this series has as many of the eligible players as possible.
I think the Canadian Parliament should outlaw anyone below 20 from accepting NHL millions on the grounds that it deprives guys like you of the pleasure of a more entertaining World Juniors. Its pretty selfish of the players and their families to want to collect all those millions at age 18 or 19. If they were more sensitive to people, they would wait until they were 21, 22 or even 23 to start making a fortune. Pretty despicable, in my view.

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05-16-2012, 02:00 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
oh cool, comparing a city to a country is full of fail.
So is failing to read a post in the right context. But if you want to go by the countries:

Indoor rinks in Canada: 2486
Indoor rinks in Russia: 340

Junior players in Canada: 468,096
Junior players in Russia: 61,000

As you can quite clearly see, the population sizes of the two countries have nothing to do with it, unlike some Canadian poster suggested. Unless you want to argue that India is a future hockey superpower.

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05-16-2012, 03:25 AM
  #110
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So Bragin is the new head coach of CSKA, he is as good as gone from U20, and we will have a problem...

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05-16-2012, 04:12 AM
  #111
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It will be good practice for them untill they will have to face the best junior team, the current champions

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05-16-2012, 07:16 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
So Bragin is the new head coach of CSKA, he is as good as gone from U20, and we will have a problem...
yes, let's see who FHR picks to earn the money....

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05-16-2012, 07:52 AM
  #113
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It would be nice to see someone from Bilylaletdinov's team take over the helm. Some one like the current assistant coach, his name slips my mind right now. But it's unlikely as he would be too preoccupied with the 1st team.

Koreshkov would also be a logical choice, especially if it were possible to pair him with Semak from Tolpar.

The worst case scenario is Plyushev, someone from the U18 coaching staff, or one of the FHR 'friends'. That would be U20 suicide.

Really happy though that Bragin is the coach of the most promising youth in Russian hockey.

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05-16-2012, 08:38 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Den View Post
So Bragin is the new head coach of CSKA, he is as good as gone from U20, and we will have a problem...
There is no replacement of proven quality in the pipeline, that I am aware of. Of course, I suppose this offers the replacement the opportunity to prove his quality.

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05-16-2012, 08:40 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
It would be nice to see someone from Bilylaletdinov's team take over the helm. Some one like the current assistant coach, his name slips my mind right now. But it's unlikely as he would be too preoccupied with the 1st team.

Koreshkov would also be a logical choice, especially if it were possible to pair him with Semak from Tolpar.

The worst case scenario is Plyushev, someone from the U18 coaching staff, or one of the FHR 'friends'. That would be U20 suicide.

Really happy though that Bragin is the coach of the most promising youth in Russian hockey.
Plyuschev had a revolt against him in the 2010 WJC, and lined up allies with him against Filatov. He was a disaster, and I can't imagine him getting another chance.

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05-16-2012, 10:12 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I think the Canadian Parliament should outlaw anyone below 20 from accepting NHL millions on the grounds that it deprives guys like you of the pleasure of a more entertaining World Juniors. Its pretty selfish of the players and their families to want to collect all those millions at age 18 or 19. If they were more sensitive to people, they would wait until they were 21, 22 or even 23 to start making a fortune. Pretty despicable, in my view.
The relevance of these sarcastic comments to my post? None. Thanks though. No one blames the players for going to the NHL.

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05-16-2012, 10:16 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
So is failing to read a post in the right context. But if you want to go by the countries:

Indoor rinks in Canada: 2486
Indoor rinks in Russia: 340

Junior players in Canada: 468,096
Junior players in Russia: 61,000

As you can quite clearly see, the population sizes of the two countries have nothing to do with it, unlike some Canadian poster suggested. Unless you want to argue that India is a future hockey superpower.
we get it, russia is poor.

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05-16-2012, 11:32 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
we get it, russia is poor.
I get the impression that you're a teen having a few giggles!

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06-13-2012, 07:21 AM
  #119
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Junior Hockey tends to go in cycles, obviously the amount of junior age players playing in the NHL and not available to the junior team has an impact, take 6-9 of the top players off any team and of course the team will not be a strong as it would be having those players. To deny it has an impact is just wrong and frankly I don't see anything wrong with a Canadian stating it as such. All fans from all countries come up with reasons (excuses) as to why their team lost. I believe it was Bikov's fault in Vancouver in that he didn't probably prepare the troops to play Canada that day. Of course it had nothing to do with Canada being a better, stronger team. LOL. I think the 2 games this summer in Yaroslavl will be two very hard fought and competitive games with each team winning a game. In Canada however I can't see Canada losing a game in Halifax. But who knows!! sport is funny sometimes. Interesting debate for sure.

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06-13-2012, 07:42 AM
  #120
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Now that it looks as though Hockey Canada will not allow some of the most talented 16 year old players to compete in this series, i.e. Mackinnon, Drouin and Ekblad here's my suggestion for the roster. Lets hope HC reconsiders the eligibility rule for underage players. Honestly it is a stupid rule.

J Huberdeau M Scheiffle T Rattie
K Rychel Nick Cousins S Griffith
M Puempel B Jenner S Monahan
H Shinkaruk M St. Croix R Strome


D Hamilton R Murray
M Reilly G Reinhart
M Dumba X Ouellet
R Murphy D Siemens



GOALIES
M Subban
Matt Murray

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06-13-2012, 08:10 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Now that it looks as though Hockey Canada will not allow some of the most talented 16 year old players to compete in this series, i.e. Mackinnon, Drouin and Ekblad here's my suggestion for the roster. Lets hope HC reconsiders the eligibility rule for underage players. Honestly it is a stupid rule.

J Huberdeau M Scheiffle T Rattie
K Rychel Nick Cousins S Griffith
M Puempel B Jenner S Monahan
H Shinkaruk M St. Croix R Strome


D Hamilton R Murray
M Reilly G Reinhart
M Dumba X Ouellet
R Murphy D Siemens



GOALIES
M Subban
Matt Murray
Harrington will be on the team. Also from what I have read Kevin Roy will be considered aswell.

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:36 PM
  #122
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Possible Russian Team:

New Head Coach: Mikahil Varnakov

Forwards
Kosov-Grigorenko-Yakupov
Slepyshev-Prokhorkin-Zlobin
Shalunov-Khoklachev-Buchnevich
Sigarev-Kadeikin-Nichushkin

Kucherov is expected to be still recovering from shoulder surgery and will probably miss this.

Depth
Shmelyov-Polyakov-Zharkov
Konkov-Nikiforov-Shenfeldt
Kamayev-Poltorak-Pereskokov
Osnovin-Mozhaev


Defense
Yarullin Nesterov
Vasilevski Sergeyev
Pedan Naumenkov

Goalies
Vasilevskiy
Makarov


Last edited by Fulcrum: 06-14-2012 at 02:57 AM.
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Old
06-14-2012, 12:40 AM
  #123
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I'd spread the talent out a bit.

Kapustin - Grigorenko - Yakupov
Slepyshev - Prokhorkin - Kucherov(if fit to play)
Kosov - Khokhlachev - Shalunov
Sigarev - Kadeikin - Zlobin

Nesterov - Sergeev
Naumenkov - Pedan
Yarullin - Osipov
Dyakov - Saveliev

Vasilevsky
Makarov

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Old
06-14-2012, 03:36 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
I'd spread the talent out a bit.

Kapustin - Grigorenko - Yakupov
Slepyshev - Prokhorkin - Kucherov(if fit to play)
Kosov - Khokhlachev - Shalunov
Sigarev - Kadeikin - Zlobin

Nesterov - Sergeev
Naumenkov - Pedan
Yarullin - Osipov
Dyakov - Saveliev

Vasilevsky
Makarov
I like the D core. Looks better and more solid to me than last years'.

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Old
06-14-2012, 07:07 AM
  #125
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I haven't seen Roy play, but he's a 1994 birthday correct? As far as Harington goes, if I were making the decisions he slides down on the depth chart for me as there are others, most notably Reinhart and Reilly are both better than Harrington. What does Harrington give the team except an other 19 year old, other than age, he doesn't give a whole lot.

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