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Cory Schneider

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Old
05-15-2012, 05:57 PM
  #1
a29317
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Cory Schneider

Everyone is screaming for the departure of Roberto Luongo... but if we don't get any assets back there is no use in trading a perfectly capable goalie.

Give us an offer that we can't refuse for Schneider . Remember we are in win now mode, but also have a weak prospect pool.

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05-15-2012, 06:00 PM
  #2
Mike Jones
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I'd start with a pair of 1sts.

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05-15-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
I'd start with a pair of 1sts.
Yes to 1st + 2nd
Not to 29th + 30th

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:08 PM
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Purcell + 19th + 2nd/B prospect.

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:09 PM
  #5
Bgav
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Corey Schneider for Kate Upton

Deal

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:44 PM
  #6
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Yes to 1st + 2nd
Not to 29th + 30th
Depends on the scouts. How are the 'nucks at drafting and developing?

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Old
05-15-2012, 06:46 PM
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Winroba
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Depends on the scouts. How are the 'nucks at drafting and developing?
fairly well as of late, recent young FA's and draft gems include Hansen, Tanev, Lack, Sweatt both B & L, Volpatti, etc

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05-15-2012, 06:55 PM
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Vorkosh
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
fairly well as of late, recent young FA's and draft gems include Hansen, Tanev, Lack, Sweatt both B & L, Volpatti, etc

Really? you think the Canucks are "fairly well" when it comes to drafting and developing?

I don't know where to start with your comment, but I'll start in the order you listed the names

Jannik Hansen - Possibly the only draft pick that gives you credit, as he was a super late pick that has decent success in the NHL

Chris Tanev, undrafted - so the scouts dropped the ball already, (to be fair so did 29 other teams), only reason the Canucks re-scouted him was because Dave Gagner used to be the kid's roller hockey coach and remembered he was decent.

Eddie Lack - Undrafted - again, scouts dropped the ball, Lars Lindgren this time stepped up and brought him to the attention of Vancouver's scouts.

Bill Sweatt - Was drafted by the Blackhawks

Lee Sweatt - Undrafted, and to make matters worse, is retired and a financial advisor now.

So... your list really isn't a good list if you're saying the Canucks scouting staff knows how to turn picks into players...

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:17 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
Really? you think the Canucks are "fairly well" when it comes to drafting and developing?

I don't know where to start with your comment, but I'll start in the order you listed the names

Jannik Hansen - Possibly the only draft pick that gives you credit, as he was a super late pick that has decent success in the NHL

Chris Tanev, undrafted - so the scouts dropped the ball already, (to be fair so did 29 other teams), only reason the Canucks re-scouted him was because Dave Gagner used to be the kid's roller hockey coach and remembered he was decent.

Eddie Lack - Undrafted - again, scouts dropped the ball, Lars Lindgren this time stepped up and brought him to the attention of Vancouver's scouts.

Bill Sweatt - Was drafted by the Blackhawks

Lee Sweatt - Undrafted, and to make matters worse, is retired and a financial advisor now.

So... your list really isn't a good list if you're saying the Canucks scouting staff knows how to turn picks into players...
Sedin's, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider, Hansen, Hodgson, Tanev, Raymond, Grabner, are all drafted or signed players who developed in Vancouver's system.

They haven't been great at the draft lately (in terms of getting instant impacts), but the system has improved since Gillis took over.

It's pretty tough to have a good system when your 1st in 2005 dies, and you 'strike out' at two consecutive drafts (2006 and 2007).

2006 and 2007 drafts have absolutely killed the Canucks chances. 2007 may be the worst draft of any team, ever.

They turned a first and three 2nd's into NOTHING...in a draft you could easily have ended up with David Perron, PK Subban, Dana Tyrell and Wayne Simmonds they walked out of their with Patrick White (who?) and Taylor Ellington (who?). The other 2nd rounders were used for trash pickups at the TDL.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:27 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Sedin's, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider, Hansen, Hodgson, Tanev, Raymond, Grabner, are all drafted or signed players who developed in Vancouver's system.

They haven't been great at the draft lately (in terms of getting instant impacts), but the system has improved since Gillis took over.

It's pretty tough to have a good system when your 1st in 2005 dies, and you 'strike out' at two consecutive drafts (2006 and 2007).

2006 and 2007 drafts have absolutely killed the Canucks chances. 2007 may be the worst draft of any team, ever.

They turned a first and three 2nd's into NOTHING...in a draft you could easily have ended up with David Perron, PK Subban, Dana Tyrell and Wayne Simmonds they walked out of their with Patrick White (who?) and Taylor Ellington (who?). The other 2nd rounders were used for trash pickups at the TDL.
Dana Tyrell, really? SY wouldn't mind sending him your way with the 19th and a 2nd for one Cory Schneider.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Sedin's, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider, Hansen, Hodgson, Tanev, Raymond, Grabner, are all drafted or signed players who developed in Vancouver's system.

They haven't been great at the draft lately (in terms of getting instant impacts), but the system has improved since Gillis took over.

It's pretty tough to have a good system when your 1st in 2005 dies, and you 'strike out' at two consecutive drafts (2006 and 2007).

2006 and 2007 drafts have absolutely killed the Canucks chances. 2007 may be the worst draft of any team, ever.

They turned a first and three 2nd's into NOTHING...in a draft you could easily have ended up with David Perron, PK Subban, Dana Tyrell and Wayne Simmonds they walked out of their with Patrick White (who?) and Taylor Ellington (who?). The other 2nd rounders were used for trash pickups at the TDL.
I believe True North Sports Entertainment(guys that own our beloved Jets) can take credit for most of those guys.

Not saying the Nucks didn't do anything....

But they played for the moose. I'm just saying.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:30 PM
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Top 5 pick or high end blue chip prospect.

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:31 PM
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If he were ever traded it would be for something like Eberle or the 1st overall pick. That's how much it would take.


Last edited by LeX4cavalier: 05-15-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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Old
05-15-2012, 07:35 PM
  #14
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I believe True North Sports Entertainment(guys that own our beloved Jets) can take credit for most of those guys.

Not saying the Nucks didn't do anything....

But they played for the moose. I'm just saying.
newsflash most teams prospects play in the minors for awhile before making the NHL. Should Grand Rapids owner get credit for most of Detroits players?

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05-15-2012, 07:35 PM
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I feel Schneider's price will be very high.
Statistically speaking he's already one of the best goalies in the league and his on ice play reflects those high numbers.

I don't think he's gonna be traded for futures...he was already drafted in the first round and developed for years in the Vancouver system.

The Canucks have 2 glaring holes and I feel Gillis will look to address those.

A young #3-4 RD to play with Edler would be fantastic. A player like Alzer (I'm aware Caps don't need a goalie).

Or

A young playmaking winger for Kesler. A player like P. Kane (yes the Canucks would have to add and a trade between Chi/Van is unlikely)

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:36 PM
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Vorkosh
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Sedin's, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider, Hansen, Hodgson, Tanev, Raymond, Grabner, are all drafted or signed players who developed in Vancouver's system.

They haven't been great at the draft lately (in terms of getting instant impacts), but the system has improved since Gillis took over.

It's pretty tough to have a good system when your 1st in 2005 dies, and you 'strike out' at two consecutive drafts (2006 and 2007).

2006 and 2007 drafts have absolutely killed the Canucks chances. 2007 may be the worst draft of any team, ever.

They turned a first and three 2nd's into NOTHING...in a draft you could easily have ended up with David Perron, PK Subban, Dana Tyrell and Wayne Simmonds they walked out of their with Patrick White (who?) and Taylor Ellington (who?). The other 2nd rounders were used for trash pickups at the TDL.
Don't knock Patrick White!, He netted us Erhoff for 2 years

The Canucks have repeatedly shown a lack of patience to develop their 1st rounders. Cory Schneider being the exception, which is why most Canuck fans are saying "OMG SAVIOR!"

Case in point the last 12 years

2000 - Nathan Smith - left Vancouver for Pittsburgh after doing nothing but getting injured for the Canucks.

2001 - R.J. Umberger - Canucks couldn't get a deal done, he sat out for a year, and then got traded for Martin Ruchinsky for like.. 17 games.

2002 - No first round pick

2003 - Ryan Kesler - 2nd line center

2004 - Cory Schneider - Starting Goalie (Projected)

2005 - Luc Bourdon - Died (RIP)

2006 - Michael Grabner - Traded for Keith Ballard, #5 Defenseman

2007 - Patrick White - Traded for Christan Erhoff, no longer with team

2008 - Cody Hodgson - Traded for Zack Kassian, 4th liner (Scratch)

2009 - Jordan Schroeder - Has not made the team yet

2010 - No 1st round pick

2011 - Nicklas Jensen - Has not made the team yet

2012 - Unknown.

So.. in the past 11 drafts, we end up with.. a 2nd line center, a projected starting goalie, a #5 defenseman, and a 4th liner.

That's pretty bad...

This thread is about the proposed return for that projected starting goalie. So.. if you remove him from the last 11 drafts... then it's even more depressing. If we trade Schneider, I'd rather get proven prospects with NHL experience rather than picks. Vancouver does not know how to draft. They got lucky with the twins and that's pretty much it

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Old
05-15-2012, 07:36 PM
  #17
Winroba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
Really? you think the Canucks are "fairly well" when it comes to drafting and developing?

I don't know where to start with your comment, but I'll start in the order you listed the names

Jannik Hansen - Possibly the only draft pick that gives you credit, as he was a super late pick that has decent success in the NHL

Chris Tanev, undrafted - so the scouts dropped the ball already, (to be fair so did 29 other teams), only reason the Canucks re-scouted him was because Dave Gagner used to be the kid's roller hockey coach and remembered he was decent.

Eddie Lack - Undrafted - again, scouts dropped the ball, Lars Lindgren this time stepped up and brought him to the attention of Vancouver's scouts.

Bill Sweatt - Was drafted by the Blackhawks

Lee Sweatt - Undrafted, and to make matters worse, is retired and a financial advisor now.

So... your list really isn't a good list if you're saying the Canucks scouting staff knows how to turn picks into players...
Tanev was like 5'5 until his 19th birthday, so it's no shock he wasn't drafted.

B. Sweatt was drafted by the Hawks but the Canucks went out and signed him, I included young FA's, but he's been looking great.

L. Sweatt had all the tools to be an NHL player and looked great in his NHL career, he was then signed to be a Senator but decided to move on. That being said, he did well for the Canucks.

I just looked at players brought in over the last two years and Hansen, one of our recent draft success stories. Aside from those guys though, the twins, Kesler, Schneider, Raymond, Bieksa and Edler were all drafted and developed by the Canucks.

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
Don't knock Patrick White!, He netted us Erhoff for 2 years

The Canucks have repeatedly shown a lack of patience to develop their 1st rounders. Cory Schneider being the exception, which is why most Canuck fans are saying "OMG SAVIOR!"

Case in point the last 12 years

2000 - Nathan Smith - left Vancouver for Pittsburgh after doing nothing but getting injured for the Canucks.

2001 - R.J. Umberger - Canucks couldn't get a deal done, he sat out for a year, and then got traded for Martin Ruchinsky for like.. 17 games.

2002 - No first round pick

2003 - Ryan Kesler - 2nd line center

2004 - Cory Schneider - Starting Goalie (Projected)

2005 - Luc Bourdon - Died (RIP)

2006 - Michael Grabner - Traded for Keith Ballard, #5 Defenseman

2007 - Patrick White - Traded for Christan Erhoff, no longer with team

2008 - Cody Hodgson - Traded for Zack Kassian, 4th liner (Scratch)

2009 - Jordan Schroeder - Has not made the team yet

2010 - No 1st round pick

2011 - Nicklas Jensen - Has not made the team yet

2012 - Unknown.

So.. in the past 11 drafts, we end up with.. a 2nd line center, a projected starting goalie, a #5 defenseman, and a 4th liner.

That's pretty bad...
Honestly is that how you evaluate drafts?

I don't look at the most recent years because we don't really know how Jensen or Schroeder are going to turn out both seem like they'll make the NHL right now. It's pretty tough to complain about either Schroeder or Jensen at this point since they are in progress and clearly aren't busts yet.

I see 1 all-star (Kesler), 3 potential all-stars (Hodgson + Schneider + Grabner), 1 very good NHLer (Umberger), and a guy that died who was looking on track to be a solid NHLer (WJC all-star team etc.), and 2 busts...all that in eight picks between 2001 and 2008 is pretty good.

I love how you include Nathan Smith in 2000 and year's where there was no first as busts but ignore two Art Ross winners in the Sedins in 1999. Add Bieksa, Edler, Hansen, and Raymond to the list and you see that most of our team was built internally.

Undrafted free agents include Tanev, Burrows, and Volpatti.

Our roster based on drafting and unsigned UFA prospects alone since 1999 (I'm sure I'm missing some people and 1998 had Bryan Allen):

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Grabner - Kesler - Umberger
Raymond - Hodgson - Hansen
Volpatti

Edler - Bieksa
Tanev

Schneider
Lack

Isn't too bad a group to have to work with. That's an easy team to supplement with UFAs and via trades.

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:32 PM
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Vorkosh
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Honestly is that how you evaluate drafts?

I don't look at the most recent years because we don't really know how Jensen or Schroeder are going to turn out both seem like they'll make the NHL right now. It's pretty tough to complain about either Schroeder or Jensen at this point since they are in progress and clearly aren't busts yet.

I see 1 all-star (Kesler), 3 potential all-stars (Hodgson + Schneider + Grabner), 1 very good NHLer (Umberger), and a guy that died who was looking on track to be a solid NHLer (WJC all-star team etc.), and 2 busts...all that in eight picks between 2001 and 2008 is pretty good.

I love how you include Nathan Smith in 2000 and year's where there was no first as busts but ignore two Art Ross winners in the Sedins in 1999. Add Bieksa, Edler, Hansen, and Raymond to the list and you see that most of our team was built internally.

Undrafted free agents include Tanev, Burrows, and Volpatti.

Our roster based on drafting and unsigned UFA prospects alone since 1999 (I'm sure I'm missing some people and 1998 had Bryan Allen):

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Grabner - Kesler - Umberger
Raymond - Hodgson - Hansen
Volpatti

Edler - Bieksa
Tanev

Schneider
Lack

Isn't too bad a group to have to work with. That's an easy team to supplement with UFAs and via trades.
Valid points, however, the original question was how is Vancouver at developing AND drafting. The response was fairly well.

Vancouver shows no patience in developing their 1st round picks, except for Schneider and Kesler. I didn't include the twins because that was over 12 years ago. I mean if you want to include Bryan Allen, we shipped him off for Luongo.

You think Grabner is a potential all-star? He scores 14 goals less than the previous year, and he's a potential all-star? 20 goal scorer.. by that logic, Mason Raymond and Chris Higgins are potential all-stars as well.

Grabner played in 2 more games than he did last year, and scored 21 less points.

The original deal based on this thread was, 2 1st round picks as a starter for Cory Schneider. I am simply stating that Vancouver does not do well with 1st round picks unless they are top 5 picks (sedins, linden), therefore, I propose that any deal involved Schneider nets us proven NHL prospects, or players instead

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:47 PM
  #20
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Cory Schneider isn't getting traded. It would be a massive massive overpayment to trade for him which won't happen.

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:56 PM
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5th overall pick 2012, Schenn

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Old
05-15-2012, 09:10 PM
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Vorkosh
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That's not really an overpayment for Schneider. Schenn is losing value in the eyes of the leafs.

I'd counter with

To Toronto Maple Leafs :

(G) Cory Schneider
Vancouver 2012 First Round Pick
(F) Mason Raymond

To Vancouver Canucks :

(D) Luke Schenn
Toronto 2012 First Round Pick
(D) Jake Gardiner

If you want Schneider and not Luongo, Gardiner would have to come back

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Old
05-15-2012, 09:43 PM
  #23
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That's not really an overpayment for Schneider. Schenn is losing value in the eyes of the leafs.

I'd counter with

To Toronto Maple Leafs :

(G) Cory Schneider
Vancouver 2012 First Round Pick
(F) Mason Raymond

To Vancouver Canucks :

(D) Luke Schenn
Toronto 2012 First Round Pick
(D) Jake Gardiner

If you want Schneider and not Luongo, Gardiner would have to come back

Drop the Canucks first and Schenn. We would be wise to give Gardiner more time to develop, ie 3rd pairing or the Wolves, and Schenn, even with just the guys we have signed, will likely be taking that third pairing spot. Gardiner has the potential to be very good, but we want immediate impact.

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Old
05-15-2012, 09:48 PM
  #24
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Corey Schneider for Kate Upton

Deal
Now thats a deal I could get behind.

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Old
05-15-2012, 10:06 PM
  #25
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Now thats a deal I could get behind.
Giggidy.

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