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Old
03-23-2006, 12:22 PM
  #26
klingsor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya
My post isn't a reaction to the criticizm of Orr but a reaction to the extreme highs and lows game to game.
That's why I said I'm sorry. I agree about the hysteria, but when a consistently, hardworking guy like Ortmeyer is scratched I just gotta complain somewhere.

Does everthing he's asked to do (backchecks, blocks shots, hits, forechecks, takes a hit to advance the puck, never takes a shift off). There ain't no justice!!!!

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03-23-2006, 12:35 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
That's why I said I'm sorry. I agree about the hysteria, but when a consistently, hardworking guy like Ortmeyer is scratched I just gotta complain somewhere.

Does everthing he's asked to do (backchecks, blocks shots, hits, forechecks, takes a hit to advance the puck, never takes a shift off). There ain't no justice!!!!
I guess the only explaination is that Renney felt it necessary to counter Philly's physicality. Maybe it was the addition of Gauthier or the proximity of the postseason (wanting to protect the stars) but it is clear that it was a mistake. Renney is a smart guy and he will adjust. Like I said, the writing is on the wall. He should know by now which style and which roster is going to win games.

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Old
03-23-2006, 01:19 PM
  #28
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It just doesn't make sense since they beat them with speed and skill last time and got Brashear suspended for his goon ways ... ah well, what's done is done ... hopefully he will put out a better team in Florida ...

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Old
03-23-2006, 01:39 PM
  #29
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what i'd like to see for the stretch run:

prucha-nyls-jagr
straka-rucchin-sykora
rucinsky-ward-hossa
moore-betts-ortmeyer

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Old
03-23-2006, 04:10 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya
The most frustrating part of today is that the writing is on the wall. We have played Philly with two distictive styles since the Olympic Break. The less popular finesse style dismantled a very distracted Flyers team. The ever popular bruising style did nothing. Take away the 3 "sissy, finesse style" goals by Jagr and we lose 5-0. We see the two styles and the results are blinding and yet the topic today among others is that we aren't physical enough.

Alright, maybe cups are won with grit and physicality and toughness. This current roster is not going to win anything playing that style right now. Maybe then can win something playing the euro/finesse style, maybe not. It is moot this season. This is our team and we have a style that works. I think Renney learned a few lessons last night and in the long run this might be the most important game of the season. Maybe next year we can add some toughness but that just isn't our best strategy for this year.
So many of us believed Mugerya (myself included) at the beginning of the season that we weren't tough enough and that teams were going to run right over the top of us. That has not been the case. It's come to pass that it's a strength of ours to turn the other cheek and play a hardworking finesse style and when we do that we give other teams fits. We need to play to our strengths.

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Old
03-23-2006, 04:13 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako
what i'd like to see for the stretch run:

prucha-nyls-jagr
straka-rucchin-sykora
rucinsky-ward-hossa
moore-betts-ortmeyer

I'm fine with that.

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Old
03-23-2006, 04:30 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by eco's bones
I'm fine with that.
Hollweg's game is much more suited for the playoffs than Hossa's is. Also, why replace Moore at center with Ward?

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Old
03-23-2006, 04:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Hollweg's game is much more suited for the playoffs than Hossa's is. Also, why replace Moore at center with Ward?

I don't understand why everyone is piling on Hollweg. He made a bad play. No one seemed to complain when he was blasted Thrashers all over the place a week/ten days ago. He's a rookie who made a rookie mistake. I mean if the Rangers find a way to kill the penalty off, no one would give a second thought to pencilling Hollweg into the lineup.

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Old
03-23-2006, 04:40 PM
  #34
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Prucha - Nylander - Jagr
Straka - Rucchin - Sykora
Rucinsky - Betts - Ward
Hollweg - Moore - Ortmeyer

I don't see why we're complaining about the offensive production of the third line and fourth lines when we're sitting 20 games over .500 and we've seen that spreading the wealth by changing the lineup just ends up messing up chemistry.

For the first time in a long time we've put together a roster in which every player has a specific and important role on the team. For too long we've assembled offensive-studded stars and expected to win games 10-9, but it doesn't work that way.

The only time we hear complaints about Bett's 1 assist or Ortmeyer's hands of stone is when we lose games 1-0, which hasn't happened often. The opportunity has passed to acquire a player outside of the organization to increase offense, so we just have to stick with what we have.

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Old
03-23-2006, 04:51 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I don't understand why everyone is piling on Hollweg. He made a bad play. No one seemed to complain when he was blasted Thrashers all over the place a week/ten days ago. He's a rookie who made a rookie mistake. I mean if the Rangers find a way to kill the penalty off, no one would give a second thought to pencilling Hollweg into the lineup.
its not that i suggested the lines of rucinsky-ward-hossa and moore-betts-ortmeyer as a way to get hollweg out of the lineup. i just feel that the rangers play the "euro" game with more success than they do the "north american" one.

as for ward at center, his faceoff numbers are very good and he would bring more playmaking abilities to that line's pivot than would betts.

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Old
03-23-2006, 05:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako
its not that i suggested the lines of rucinsky-ward-hossa and moore-betts-ortmeyer as a way to get hollweg out of the lineup. i just feel that the rangers play the "euro" game with more success than they do the "north american" one.

as for ward at center, his faceoff numbers are very good and he would bring more playmaking abilities to that line's pivot than would betts.

I wasn't calling you out specifically. I see where you're going with playing more of a finesse game but the fact remains the playoffs are a different story and a different game. The Rangers lack grit as it is and really can't see them being able to get by without Hollweg.

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Old
03-23-2006, 05:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I wasn't calling you out specifically. I see where you're going with playing more of a finesse game but the fact remains the playoffs are a different story and a different game. The Rangers lack grit as it is and really can't see them being able to get by without Hollweg.
i guess it all comes down to whether or not the referees will call the marginal penalties in the playoffs. their words say yes but their actions say no

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Old
03-24-2006, 07:34 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako
i guess it all comes down to whether or not the referees will call the marginal penalties in the playoffs. their words say yes but their actions say no
Marginal penalties or not, the playoffs are a grind. Players finish their checks far more often than in the regular season. That has absolutely nothing to do with calling the marginal hooking penalties. Think of it. How many times has Hollweg been penalized for his hitting? I say that becuase he hits everything in sight almost every shift, and has barely been penalized for it. Now picture an entire team finishing their checks all night long.
Teams do this becuase it wears down the opposition. The most skilled team does not usually win in the playoffs (just look at the Senators of the past few seasons). When the opposing team finishes their checks, it not only wears down a team, but causes turnovers as players (especially the defensemen) begin to hurry their passing.

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Old
03-24-2006, 09:00 AM
  #39
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Unlike the regular season, teams will strategize for a series. We'll need two scoring lines since Jagr will not flourish as much and we'll need to establish a cycle to wear out the other team's defense. Try and find a copy of the 94 playoffs. Vancouver almost came back by hitting Leetch and Zubov at every opportunity. They almost succeeded. In the playoffs the third and fourth lines must establish a down low presence to help keep the pressure off our dmen. THE DMEN MUST USE THEIR SIZE EFFECTIVELY, IF NOT PHYSICALLY.

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Old
03-24-2006, 11:22 AM
  #40
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Putting either Prucha or Rucinsky with Betts at center is wasting their talent. Neither is going to produce the way you'd want them too. Betts is a good checker and decent on faceoffs and I have no problem playing him but not when your putting someone with real offensive talent on his line. Ward-Hossa-Rucinsky might not be bad. Hossa is about as inconsistent offensively as Lundmark but he is bigger,stronger--okay defensively and is not afraid of the physical game. He does compete. I like Hollweg but I don't think his presence is the piece we're missing for a playoff run.

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Old
03-24-2006, 11:58 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones
Hossa is about as inconsistent offensively as Lundmark but he is bigger,stronger--okay defensively and is not afraid of the physical game. He does compete. I like Hollweg but I don't think his presence is the piece we're missing for a playoff run.
The net effect is zero for the offense. So then you have to look at other factors. They cycle the puck about the same and, IMO, is more aware defensively than Hossa is. Plus Hollweg is about the lone forward who will wear down the opposing team with hitting. He is the only one who will cause the defensemen to look up if he is on the ice and is the only one whose hit can turn the momentum. I'd say he belongs in the playoffs much more than Hossa does. I just do not see what Hossa brings to the table.

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Old
03-24-2006, 12:19 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
The net effect is zero for the offense. So then you have to look at other factors. They cycle the puck about the same and, IMO, is more aware defensively than Hossa is. Plus Hollweg is about the lone forward who will wear down the opposing team with hitting. He is the only one who will cause the defensemen to look up if he is on the ice and is the only one whose hit can turn the momentum. I'd say he belongs in the playoffs much more than Hossa does. I just do not see what Hossa brings to the table.
The net effect is zero minus zero with Betts centering your 3rd line. Hossa is another version of Gene Carr. The Rangers stuck him with Fairbairn and Tkaczuk and he didn't produce much either--Bill Chadwick coined the phrase 'couldn't hit the ocean if he was standing on the end of the pier'--about him but his presence didn't stop Bill and Walt from producing. Carr did okay afterwards--after he left us he became a somewhat productive player. A line is not going to produce if the center cannot create. Betts is not going to create. What do you do when the pieces you have for your 3rd and 4th lines are not going to produce any offense at all for you? In the sense of contemplating Hossa as a 3rd line wing he's not replacing Hollweg in the lineup because Hollweg is a 4th liner (at least right now) plain and simple. Hollweg if he wasn't in the lineup would be pushed out by someone else (Moore?). I like Ryan and his hitting game and it's true there aren't any others on the team that bring it like him. I'm also not saying that he should be benched the entire playoffs. I see our lineup as a little more flexible than that. The only reason I made that comment about him not being the missing piece is he hasn't proven to be an integral part of the team (yet). Mainly though this thread (to me) is not so much whether Petr or Martin get to play with Jaromir as it is more about how we can get some production outside of our top two lines and for that to happen Blair Betts has got to go to the 4th line.

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