I read the thread [I have virtually no life] and I lean towrds Mike8's opinion. I've had a vague notion for awhile about Kovalev. When the guy scores it's usually a laser of a wrist shot, his strength on the puck and handling abilities are elite. He is capable of playing sound overall defensive hockey, though he's by no means a specialist. Getting these skills onto the scoresheet every night is an art in itself. He doesn't always use the players on the ice with him to max. advantage, he can be deliberate in decision making. So, the easy assumption is that if he has great skills but is only a very good player, it's simply work ethic. I don't think it's that simple. Getting the max. of of your talent is a skill in itself.
So you can look at the guy and say, wow, he's fun to watch, when he has it going, he can be as good as anyone. Or you can say, he should be able to do it all the time. Argue it either way, he's the same player, not a point producer like Thornton, but a very good player.
Same with Koivu, you can love what the guy does. He plays a feisty in your face game with good fundamentals, good playmaking abilities, who for a variety of reasons, never got to where we hoped he would in terms of production. Personally, I really like the guy, he has an attitude of belligerence that I've always liked, esp. in a smaller player. He's always reminded me of the Pocket Rocket in that he plays hard, can be nasty, and really doesn't want to talk about it much. I don't delude myself into thinking he's a great player though. I'll go as far as saying that the team needs a forward more productive than these 2 guys to enhance their value.
Yeah, they both make good $, but in reality, all we can expect is that they perform at the level that has marked their careers. If the org. decided to pay them what they did, I'm sure they didn't expect them to be different. My guess is that they expect Kovy to average 25-30g, and about 80-85 points, and Saku to avg. 18-22 g. and 75 points, or the same in terms of ppg. They didn't plan on 20 game no goal streaks, but I think they'll get what they banked on.
Um, I hate to break it to you but I read the entire thread and you've been doing this the whole time
Anyway, my 2 cents about Kovy :
Kovy comes to play when he wants and I'm totally fine with that. He DOES make a difference out there. People can bash him for being a playmaker or not being one or being selfish, etc, but the fact of the matter is that we just beat the Leafs 5-1 and he played well. That's what matters to me.
Do I think Kovalev is the best player in the league? Nope. Do I think some people overrate him? Sure do. Do I think that he fits with our team? Yup. Do I think he's one of the reasons Markov is playing well? Yes sir.
Don't give me that crap about scoring 100 points. We've never had a great point-getter in the past 10 years or so. If you expect 100 points from Kovalev, you shouldn't. Not on this team. Kovy actually backchecks with us.
Shabutie, by you saying you don't like him no matter what type of game he plays makes you an easy target That's being personal.
Cap
No not at all, I used to think Kovalev was a bad passer, but then I realised that it's simply cuz sometimes (alot of times) he doesn't know what to do and it'll lead to turnovers. I do think he fits the team, however I think others in the league would fit the team (well...help the team) better (For instance Doan). I don't see how he's one of the reasons Markov is playing well, seeing as he's played this well since the second half of last season. Again, I don't hate him, I just don't like him. Till the playoffs of course, cuz that's the only time he seems to care.
No not at all, I used to think Kovalev was a bad passer, but then I realised that it's simply cuz sometimes (alot of times) he doesn't know what to do and it'll lead to turnovers. I do think he fits the team, however I think others in the league would fit the team (well...help the team) better (For instance Doan). I don't see how he's one of the reasons Markov is playing well, seeing as he's played this well since the second half of last season. Again, I don't hate him, I just don't like him. Till the playoffs of course, cuz that's the only time he seems to care.
I think you're right with a lot of people overrating Kovy, that much I agree with. However I also think you underrate him but that's just my opinion of course. I think he's smarter with the puck than you think, but I think he has to play with intelligent players to take full advantage. I think Zednik is a headless chicken out there so Kovy tries to adjust but it just doesn't work sometimes.
I think Kovy is a BIG influence on Markov. Andrei is a shy individual. He had trouble with the language and he was not comfortable in Montreal. Some guys are just like that, and some are the opposite - Ovechkin comes to mind here. Anyway, I've noticed that ever since we got Kovy, Markov has really come out of his shell. Again it's my opinion but I think Kovy is a big reason for that. He's a guy that Markov looks up to.
Kovy is a hockey player and he is playing as hard as he can for us. I truly believe that. He's not a physical presence or anything, I don't know what people expect really. Considering we haven't had a point-per-game man in a long time, I'm extremely happy with Kovy. The guy had knee surgery in the middle of the season and came back to play. Kovy might not be "the guy" but he looks truly happy to be a hab and to see him wire the puck in off the crossbar against the Leafs makes him a hero for me!
I think you're right with a lot of people overrating Kovy, that much I agree with. However I also think you underrate him but that's just my opinion of course. I think he's smarter with the puck than you think, but I think he has to play with intelligent players to take full advantage. I think Zednik is a headless chicken out there so Kovy tries to adjust but it just doesn't work sometimes.
Sometimes I do underrate his vision, simply because I've seen him fail to make plays so often. I think you're right about him having to be with smarter players, and Zednik definitely takes away from that line and Imo Pleks, Higgins would help that line. Someone wrote that Kovalev asked to play with Ribeiro cuz of his vision + passing skills, don't know if it has any truth to it, but I do find it bizare that he's yet to be reunited with Koivu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano
I think Kovy is a BIG influence on Markov. Andrei is a shy individual. He had trouble with the language and he was not comfortable in Montreal. Some guys are just like that, and some are the opposite - Ovechkin comes to mind here. Anyway, I've noticed that ever since we got Kovy, Markov has really come out of his shell. Again it's my opinion but I think Kovy is a big reason for that. He's a guy that Markov looks up to.
I don't completely agree with that only cuz I haven't seen Markov's play REALLY improve this year. It's been amazing since the 2nd 1/2 of last year. Maybe you're right about it affecting him off the ice (which would make him happier on the ice I suppose).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano
Kovy is a hockey player and he is playing as hard as he can for us. I truly believe that. He's not a physical presence or anything, I don't know what people expect really. Considering we haven't had a point-per-game man in a long time, I'm extremely happy with Kovy. The guy had knee surgery in the middle of the season and came back to play. Kovy might not be "the guy" but he looks truly happy to be a hab and to see him wire the puck in off the crossbar against the Leafs makes him a hero for me!
Cap
I don't agree that he is playing as hard as he can for us, simply cuz he's projected for a career low in goals and points (if you don't count his last season with NYR). He has looked much better lately though. I just expected him to reach 30 goals and around 75 points, which to me was realistic. I'm not disapointed in his play however.
We're not RIPPING him, just saying that he's not the god that people make him out to be.
No one is making him out to be a god but he's still one hell of a player. When you compare his contract with that of Zhamnov, Palffy, Gonchar among others, you can easily see we got good value for a UFA. He might have started slow in the goalscoring department, but if he shot as well as the last 20 games, he would've had 30 goals easily. I think the signing will look very good starting now until the next 2 years. Honestly, Kovalev is playing as well as he was with Pittsburgh.
No one is making him out to be a god but he's still one hell of a player. When you compare his contract with that of Zhamnov, Palffy, Gonchar among others, you can easily see we got good value for a UFA. He might have started slow in the goalscoring department, but if he shot as well as the last 20 games, he would've had 30 goals easily. I think the signing will look very good starting now until the next 2 years. Honestly, Kovalev is playing as well as he was with Pittsburgh.
Alot of people think that he's the greatest offensive talent in the league. Also, his later years in Pittsburgh were matched by very few and I don't think he'll ever go back to that type of play (Over 1PPG). Still though he was in-consistent in those years, on the odd nights when he turned it on he lite the scoreboard more than once.
Sometimes I do underrate his vision, simply because I've seen him fail to make plays so often. I think you're right about him having to be with smarter players, and Zednik definitely takes away from that line and Imo Pleks, Higgins would help that line. Someone wrote that Kovalev asked to play with Ribeiro cuz of his vision + passing skills, don't know if it has any truth to it, but I do find it bizare that he's yet to be reunited with Koivu.
I don't completely agree with that only cuz I haven't seen Markov's play REALLY improve this year. It's been amazing since the 2nd 1/2 of last year. Maybe you're right about it affecting him off the ice (which would make him happier on the ice I suppose).
I don't agree that he is playing as hard as he can for us, simply cuz he's projected for a career low in goals and points (if you don't count his last season with NYR). He has looked much better lately though. I just expected him to reach 30 goals and around 75 points, which to me was realistic. I'm not disapointed in his play however.
Ribs compliments him well I think, because Ribs is a great puck handler and he's a good playmaker too. Zednik takes away from that line, no doubt.
Again, you can't look at Kovy's previous stats...he played for Pittsburgh...you know Pittsburgh where "back-check" is a dirty word. Did you see Kovy covering up for our D yesterday night? You would NEVER see him do that in Pittsburgh or New York for that matter.
Your expectations weren't unrealistic but I give him credit where it is due. He has scored some big goals for us this year. Sure I'd love for him to be a 100 point man but I think in BG's/Carbo's system you won't see that from anybody. Except maybe a guy like Crosby, and even still that's a stretch.
Kovy also missed games due to a knee injury too so it took him awhile to get back into the groove...that was a big setback considering he couldn't workout, and practice, etc.
Anyway, I'm of the belief that a TEAM will beat individuals any day of the week. I don't care if a guy scores 100 points and we don't play well as a team. I'd rather a guy get 65 points and we make the playoffs. Kovy gets respect of his peers, no doubt about that and players feed off of his play.
I see your point Shabutie, but honestly I think Kovy has FINALLY decided to be a good teammate not a puck hog. I have little doubt his numbers would be better if he didn't care how the team did.
