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Which system do you prefer?

View Poll Results: Which system do you prefer?
Lavy's (Capitals pond hockey) 46 54.76%
Defense First (something that resembles forwards playing some sort of defensive system) 38 45.24%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-15-2012, 04:49 AM
  #76
mirimon
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Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
I mean......at times it looked as though we were a bottom of the league team and with the players we have, that shouldn't ever happen. This is how I don't get it though, it worked out fine against the devils during the regular season, why was is so much worse in the playoffs? I mean the regular season games were never total domination like this series was, and with the injuries I think that no doubt had to do with it, cause Timonen, Grossmann, Voracek, JVR and I forget the other 2 that were having surgeries done afterwards
The Devils were a lot better in that series than they were against us in the regular season games. They'd gotten Zajac back to form, which helps them a great deal of course, but they also got a lot out of their depth players, guys like Ponikarovsky and Bernier for instance. They were great on the forecheck. Couple that with us having some injury troubles and being a team with a lot of young and inexperienced players and it's not that strange that we didn't go that deep in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
2010 Chicago Blackhawks say whats up. It changes from year to year. Sometimes its depth, sometimes its an elite goalie, sometimes its super tight defense. Don't try and mimic whatevers hot right now. Prepare a team to say in different types of games. It doesn't have to be ONE system.
Agreed. One year the winning formula is to have a few reallly big stars and then just fill out the team from there, the next it is all about depth. One of the reasons I'm hoping that the Flyers have a fairly quiet off season is because I hope they've finally settled on a strategy that they will follow, instead of react to whatever won the cup the previous season.

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05-15-2012, 12:02 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
2010 Chicago Blackhawks say whats up. It changes from year to year. Sometimes its depth, sometimes its an elite goalie, sometimes its super tight defense. Don't try and mimic whatevers hot right now. Prepare a team to say in different types of games. It doesn't have to be ONE system.
Wrong. Nice try though. The Blackhawks were the 5th best defensive team that year. The Flyers were the 2nd best defensive team that playoff season.

Coincidence that they made it to the finals that year with the second best playoff defense? I think not.

You can argue against history all you want but the fact still remains, a defense first commitment has won 99% of cups in the last 25+ years. Yes the aberration happened in Carolina, but I'll go with the rule, not the exception to it.

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05-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Because that's not what wins in the Springtime.
Amen

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05-15-2012, 12:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
The Devils were a lot better in that series than they were against us in the regular season games. They'd gotten Zajac back to form, which helps them a great deal of course, but they also got a lot out of their depth players, guys like Ponikarovsky and Bernier for instance. They were great on the forecheck. Couple that with us having some injury troubles and being a team with a lot of young and inexperienced players and it's not that strange that we didn't go that deep in the playoffs.
And what are the Rangers a bunch of grizzled veterans? They have plenty of youth and inexperience as well. Just cause you're a young team doesn't mean you can't have success. They also play a better system and are better coached.

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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Agreed. One year the winning formula is to have a few reallly big stars and then just fill out the team from there, the next it is all about depth. One of the reasons I'm hoping that the Flyers have a fairly quiet off season is because I hope they've finally settled on a strategy that they will follow, instead of react to whatever won the cup the previous season.
Every year though (99% of the time) the winning formula starts with defense first.

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05-15-2012, 12:13 PM
  #80
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inconsistant goaltending doesnt win in the playoffs either. You can build yourself a nice defense, trade away all the offensive minded first players and look like the Kings or Blues. Does it matter if your goalie cant play consistancy?

Bryzgalov has a history of coming up small in the playoffs. Look at his numbers in Phoenix in the playoffs. more then 2 years of not playing well in the playoffs. that isnt a fluke. that is a trend.

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05-15-2012, 12:27 PM
  #81
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Even though I voted for defense, I like the offensive power this line-up owns. One problem that sticks out for me, however, is that the defense has to complement the offense better. Flyers defensemen aren't overly possessed with puck-carrying ability Coburn and (healthy) Timonen can. Carle often can, but we all know his tendency to make tape-to-tape passes to opposing sweaters and are on the slow side skating-wise. This was a huge aspect of Pronger's game that this team sorely lacked this season: a solid breakout pass onto a moving teammate's stick. It bothered me to no end watching the two Flyers defensemen in their own zone, pass the puck back and forth behind their net, until one of them invariably was pressured and either coughed up the puck or fired it away (icing or loss of possession in neutral zone). Offense needs one player back further for another short-pass option, IMHO.

As for team defense, the forwards have to be more responsible in their own-zone assignments. Too many one-timers to wide open opponents on the doorstep. They don't have to collapse like the Rangers or Blues, but don't be out cherry picking en masse either. Get in passing lanes and know where the high-percentage shots are going to come from.

Blocked shots are an important part of defending, as it not only does the obvious of preventing the puck from getting through but if you're good enough at it, the opposing point men feel the need to move the puck more rather than just firing it at the net. More passes means more opportunity to lose possession and, best case, get an odd-man breakout to use that speed.

Plus, I'm going to be naively optimistic that Bryzgalov puts up significantly better numbers next season. So there!

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05-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #82
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Plus, I'm going to be naively optimistic that Bryzgalov puts up significantly better numbers next season. So there!
well consitering how bad he was outside of March and against NJ I would hope so. He needs to get himself focused on doing his job. I dont think Holmgren was very pleased with him in that aspect this past season.

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05-15-2012, 12:59 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Wrong. Nice try though. The Blackhawks were the 5th best defensive team that year. The Flyers were the 2nd best defensive team that playoff season.

Coincidence that they made it to the finals that year with the second best playoff defense? I think not.

You can argue against history all you want but the fact still remains, a defense first commitment has won 99% of cups in the last 25+ years. Yes the aberration happened in Carolina, but I'll go with the rule, not the exception to it.
Dude...you don't ****ing react to whatever system happens to win it. The Blackhawks defense might have been 5th best that year but it was their offensive depth that allowed them to carry the play. And the only argument you made by listing the Flyers in that post was that when you have enough players that can play defense, Lavy's system works fine. You need PLAYERS THAT CAN PLAY DEFENSE. Our best defensive forward was a rookie. Obviously things wont be as defensively tight.

No need to pull a Washington Capitals, who btw are out in the 2nd round yet again and don't have a coach for next season. Oh, and also have their best player see their minutes reduced. I really don't want that problem for the Flyers, do you? Stop being so reactionary, that's how you **** yourself over.

The obvious solution to this problem is to acquire a few more defensive minded players, teach defense to the younger players better, and tweak a few things so the forwards help the d a little more.

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05-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Wrong. Nice try though. The Blackhawks were the 5th best defensive team that year. The Flyers were the 2nd best defensive team that playoff season.

Coincidence that they made it to the finals that year with the second best playoff defense? I think not.

You can argue against history all you want but the fact still remains, a defense first commitment has won 99% of cups in the last 25+ years. Yes the aberration happened in Carolina, but I'll go with the rule, not the exception to it.

We should hire the guy we had for that run - his system seemed to work much better.

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05-15-2012, 03:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
And what are the Rangers a bunch of grizzled veterans? They have plenty of youth and inexperience as well. Just cause you're a young team doesn't mean you can't have success. They also play a better system and are better coached.



Every year though (99% of the time) the winning formula starts with defense first.
You're honestly comparing our team, chock full of rookies, to the Rags? We had Read, Couturier, Schenn, Gustafsson/Bourdon, all playing key roles for us. Only rookie I can think of that the Rags have playing a key role for them is Kreider and he didn't start the playoffs until recently.

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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
We should hire the guy we had for that run - his system seemed to work much better.
Haha best post of the thread.

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05-15-2012, 04:01 PM
  #86
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QUOTE=NitHeel;49732471]We should hire the guy we had for that run - his system seemed to work much better.[/QUOTE]


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05-15-2012, 06:05 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
We should hire the guy we had for that run - his system seemed to work much better.
That guy is coaching in LA right now, too late. The roster was his that season. Once Lavy was able to make his own personnel moves, we've gone backwards and 0-13 in the playoffs when we don't score four or more goals.

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05-15-2012, 06:07 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
The obvious solution to this problem is to acquire a few more defensive minded players, teach defense to the younger players better, and tweak a few things so the forwards help the d a little more.
Exactly, change the system!!!

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05-15-2012, 06:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You're honestly comparing our team, chock full of rookies, to the Rags? We had Read, Couturier, Schenn, Gustafsson/Bourdon, all playing key roles for us. Only rookie I can think of that the Rags have playing a key role for them is Kreider and he didn't start the playoffs until recently.
You need to re-read the post I responded to. The word "rookies" was never a part of the conversation. It talked about youth and inexperience. Try again.

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05-15-2012, 08:54 PM
  #90
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You need to re-read the post I responded to. The word "rookies" was never a part of the conversation. It talked about youth and inexperience. Try again.
Two things generally most associated with rookies because, if you aren't a rookie, that means you have experience. So you try again.

I'm also pretty sure the original poster you were referring to was mostly referring to how many rookies we've had in the roster since that's the bulk of where our youth and inexperience comes from. Obviously.

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05-15-2012, 08:58 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
That guy is coaching in LA right now, too late. The roster was his that season. Once Lavy was able to make his own personnel moves, we've gone backwards and 0-13 in the playoffs when we don't score four or more goals.
Lavy was the coach that year, and it was his system in the playoffs. Stevens was fired early in the season because he wasn't a very good head coach. The personnel moves the coach makes is just benching players. The more or less personnel moves are done by the GM, and the main reason we haven't won a play off game with scoring more than 4 goals has a lot to do with the fact that the last two years other than the Devils series we've gotten mediocre to awful goal tending.

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05-15-2012, 09:37 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
That guy is coaching in LA right now, too late. The roster was his that season. Once Lavy was able to make his own personnel moves, we've gone backwards and 0-13 in the playoffs when we don't score four or more goals.
One would be hard-pressed to name two Flyers who have gotten better defensively under Laviolette.

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05-15-2012, 09:54 PM
  #93
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One would be hard-pressed to name two Flyers who have gotten better defensively under Laviolette.
Coburn. Everybody else got traded.

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05-15-2012, 11:18 PM
  #94
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One would be hard-pressed to name two Flyers who have gotten better defensively under Laviolette.
Exactly. The more this roster has been built with players for Lavy's pond hockey, the worse we do in the playoffs. The sweep by Boston was equally embarrassing as the Devil series this year.

Stevens was a defensive coach, and players under him were taught and played that way. In comes Lavy, personnel changes, a "never mind that defensive stuff" style and presto, we can't win low scoring, tight checking, defensive playoff hockey.

Yeah the aberration happened in Carolina, but there's a reason defense carries the day 99% of the time. History has proved that.

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05-15-2012, 11:23 PM
  #95
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I might have just read it wrong, but did someone actually say Stevens has a system?

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05-15-2012, 11:24 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatthef View Post
Lavy was the coach that year, and it was his system in the playoffs.
With Steven's players who were taught how to play defensive hockey.


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Originally Posted by whatthef View Post
The personnel moves the coach makes is just benching players. The more or less personnel moves are done by the GM,
Wrong. Lavy has a voice, and a strong one at that, when it comes to personnel on this team.

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and the main reason we haven't won a play off game with scoring more than 4 goals has a lot to do with the fact that the last two years other than the Devils series we've gotten mediocre to awful goal tending.
LOL. Yeah it's the goalie's fault when we can't score four goals. This team is not built and does not play a style that can win tight checking, low scoring, playoff hockey. 0-13 the last two years in the playoffs proves that.

Was it the goalies fault when we lost two 1-0 games in the Buffalo series last year?

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05-15-2012, 11:27 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
Exactly. The more this roster has been built with players for Lavy's pond hockey, the worse we do in the playoffs. The sweep by Boston was equally embarrassing as the Devil series this year.

Stevens was a defensive coach, and players under him were taught and played that way. In comes Lavy, personnel changes, a "never mind that defensive stuff" style and presto, we can't win low scoring, tight checking, defensive playoff hockey.

Yeah the aberration happened in Carolina, but there's a reason defense carries the day 99% of the time. History has proved that.
What was the score again in the game the Flyers eliminated the Penguins? Are there actually implications here that people miss Stevens? I think I'm going to shut down and lie down with a cold cloth on my head.

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05-15-2012, 11:31 PM
  #98
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What was the score again in the game the Flyers eliminated the Penguins? Are there actually implications here that people miss Stevens? I think I'm going to shut down and lie down with a cold cloth on my head.
Since you're late to the party or haven't been reading the entire thread, allow me to update you. The central theme here is that the Flyers are 0-13 in the last two playoff seasons when scoring less than four goals.

The score of the elimination game with the Pens was 5-1. We scored more than 4, so we won.

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05-15-2012, 11:38 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Two things generally most associated with rookies because, if you aren't a rookie, that means you have experience. So you try again.

I'm also pretty sure the original poster you were referring to was mostly referring to how many rookies we've had in the roster since that's the bulk of where our youth and inexperience comes from. Obviously.
Oh, and once you're in your second year you aren't inexperienced anymore. I didn't know only rookies could be inexperienced.

Sorry I forgot about all those deep playoff runs a majority of the Ranger players have been through during their careers. I must have confused them with the Red Wings.

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05-16-2012, 12:05 AM
  #100
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Oh, and once you're in your second year you aren't inexperienced anymore. I didn't know only rookies could be inexperienced.

Sorry I forgot about all those deep playoff runs a majority of the Ranger players have been through during their careers. I must have confused them with the Red Wings.
Which half of the Rangers team is the rookies?

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