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Big Joe to Leafs

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Old
05-16-2012, 12:21 AM
  #76
Sharksfan83
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JT is not available as a bargain pickup. He's playing the best hockey of his career, and the Sharks don't desperately need to move him.

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Old
05-16-2012, 12:29 AM
  #77
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Thornton isn't being traded. He's a crucial piece to this team, and honestly unless DW decides to re-build the whole team, I don't want any of the core gone except for Clowe.

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Old
05-16-2012, 12:35 AM
  #78
Falcons93
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The most I'd be willing to offer would be something like this:

Kadri
Kulemin
Gunnarsson

for

Thornton
55th overall in 2012 (pick can be changed, but I'd want a second rounder as well and 55 is near the end of the second)

I'm a lot higher than most on both Gunnarsson and Kadri though.

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Old
05-16-2012, 04:16 AM
  #79
TheJuxtaposer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
The most I'd be willing to offer would be something like this:

Kadri
Kulemin
Gunnarsson

for

Thornton
55th overall in 2012 (pick can be changed, but I'd want a second rounder as well and 55 is near the end of the second)

I'm a lot higher than most on both Gunnarsson and Kadri though.
I think I'd do something like Thornton/17th overall for Kadri/Kulemin/5th overall. Leafs get their big, playmaking #1C for Kessel and still have a decent first rounder.

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Old
05-16-2012, 04:35 AM
  #80
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I love Thornton just wish he was a few years younger

I don't see the leafs actually competing until we get all of LACK off the books, which is after 2 more seasons. In two more years I think Thornton will still be an effective and top 6 player, don't get me wrong on that, but at that time he will be 35, his contract will be up (I think we could resign him) but also at that age I think it would be best if he slid down to 2nd line and not be relied on as heavily. If we got him I believe he would be great with Kessel, he is exactly the kind of player we need. Unfortunately his best years left line up with when the leafs aren't ready in my opinion.

If only there was someone like him but 7 years younger available to the highest bidder.

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Old
05-16-2012, 06:38 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I think I'd do something like Thornton/17th overall for Kadri/Kulemin/5th overall. Leafs get their big, playmaking #1C for Kessel and still have a decent first rounder.
Don't want to trade the 5th overall pick.

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:12 AM
  #82
angry pirate
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Does something like Kulemin / Connolly / 5th overall / One of: (Kadri/colborne/etc)

For

Thornton / 55th Overall

San Jose gets a top 6 winger in Kulemin, a serviceable when healthy 2nd line C albeit Salary dump in Connolly, great pick and a high ceiling prospect.

Toronto immediately has one of the most dangerous PP units in the league. And be able to have star power spread across 2 scoring lines making them harder to defend against. They also shed connollys salary.

Pretty similar value to both the Richards and carter trades a year ago. Which I think big joe would be in the same ball park.

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Old
05-16-2012, 07:37 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3ADLY View Post
Would SJ consider Schenn, Colborne, Franson 1st rd 2013 pick? or does this not really help you guys?
That's not a fair package for Thorton.

If you want him, you've got to give up the 5th overall. Otherwise, there's no way.

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05-16-2012, 07:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3ADLY View Post
Is there a remote chance that SJ would trade Thornton to Leafs? Many Toronto fans want to keep our team young but i think a true veteran leader is required to set the youngsters intact. Having said that what would Sharks be looking in return if the trade was even to be looked at. Thanks in advance..
obviously he's worth far more than SJ paid to get him. ...he was barely in his prime then, and now, he's a respect vet, so his value is much higher.

...so start with the 5th, toss in Kadri, and Gardiner, and they may start to listen, but, the 2013 1st should prob be needed to get it done

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05-16-2012, 08:16 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
That's not a fair package for Thorton.

If you want him, you've got to give up the 5th overall. Otherwise, there's no way.
Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart was the return for 26 year old Thornton.

Sturm ~= MacArthur (though MacArthur's stats are better than Sturm's were. career high 56 points)

Wayne Primeau = Steckel ...but i'd be wiling to upgrade him to Armstrong for you.

Brad Stuart < Gunnarson (to be honest, Gunnar is better than Stuart ever was)

so, there you have it, the new version of the trade, in fair value to what was paid.

MacArthur + Armstrong + Gunnarson

for

Thornton

I'm guessing that SJ will pass, but, no way in the world you get what you expect from any team, forget a team that cannot afford to give away assets like the Leafs.

...try Buffalo, at least they may offer Roy!!

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Old
05-16-2012, 08:26 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart was the return for 26 year old Thornton.

Sturm ~= MacArthur (though MacArthur's stats are better than Sturm's were. career high 56 points)

Wayne Primeau = Steckel ...but i'd be wiling to upgrade him to Armstrong for you.

Brad Stuart < Gunnarson (to be honest, Gunnar is better than Stuart ever was)

so, there you have it, the new version of the trade, in fair value to what was paid.

MacArthur + Armstrong + Gunnarson

for

Thornton

I'm guessing that SJ will pass, but, no way in the world you get what you expect from any team, forget a team that cannot afford to give away assets like the Leafs.

...try Buffalo, at least they may offer Roy!!
There is so much wrong with this post, I just don't know where to start.

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Old
05-16-2012, 08:33 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
The most I'd be willing to offer would be something like this:

Kadri
Kulemin
Gunnarsson

for

Thornton
55th overall in 2012 (pick can be changed, but I'd want a second rounder as well and 55 is near the end of the second)

I'm a lot higher than most on both Gunnarsson and Kadri though.
If that's the most you'd pay then you're not likely going to get Thornton. That is a scrap trade and the Sharks don't get good value at all with it. The only player with significant value to a team that wants guys who will contribute now is Carl Gunnarsson. Kulemin is in an off year where his value is tanked and Kadri is unproven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I think I'd do something like Thornton/17th overall for Kadri/Kulemin/5th overall. Leafs get their big, playmaking #1C for Kessel and still have a decent first rounder.
I know you'd do it but we both know that won't happen because there's nobody in return that can be banked on contributing next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
Does something like Kulemin / Connolly / 5th overall / One of: (Kadri/colborne/etc)

For

Thornton / 55th Overall

San Jose gets a top 6 winger in Kulemin, a serviceable when healthy 2nd line C albeit Salary dump in Connolly, great pick and a high ceiling prospect.

Toronto immediately has one of the most dangerous PP units in the league. And be able to have star power spread across 2 scoring lines making them harder to defend against. They also shed connollys salary.

Pretty similar value to both the Richards and carter trades a year ago. Which I think big joe would be in the same ball park.
That isn't in the same ballpark. Those guys didn't return cap dumps. They returned a prized young asset and a serviceable young player now. Kulemin was horrible last season and has little trade value because of it. The Sharks also don't need a serviceable center that has injury problems. The 5th and Kadri/Colborne is fine if the other particulars are taken care of. They'll need guys they can count on to contribute now as a starting point for a trade and asset(s) for the future as well for Thornton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart was the return for 26 year old Thornton.

Sturm ~= MacArthur (though MacArthur's stats are better than Sturm's were. career high 56 points)

Wayne Primeau = Steckel ...but i'd be wiling to upgrade him to Armstrong for you.

Brad Stuart < Gunnarson (to be honest, Gunnar is better than Stuart ever was)

so, there you have it, the new version of the trade, in fair value to what was paid.

MacArthur + Armstrong + Gunnarson

for

Thornton

I'm guessing that SJ will pass, but, no way in the world you get what you expect from any team, forget a team that cannot afford to give away assets like the Leafs.

...try Buffalo, at least they may offer Roy!!
Your premise is flawed because a 26 year old Thornton wasn't shopped around. That in itself kills your argument.

If the Sharks actually make Thornton available, the Leafs would be looking at something like Gunnarsson, Kadri/Colborne, and the 5th overall.

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Old
05-16-2012, 08:37 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Joe Thornton blows all of the guys you listed out of the water. And he's done a lot of maturing and growing up since he left Boston.

I'm okay with taking back salary, but not two cap dumps and a conditional pick and two B prospects. Not happening.

Bottom line is, if the Sharks trade Joe, they need the potential for elite talent to be coming back. That's why Toronto's first this season has to be part of the deal. I know everyone likes to call Joe declining and whatever, but his style of play will be effective for 8-10 more years. He hasn't had injury issues in a long time and he doesn't rely on physical gifts that decline with age to play at an elite level.

If Joe is traded, it's for a Jeff Carter return and then some.
so you think that Columbus picking at 29/30 they are getting from LA is the same as a #5 pick?

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Old
05-16-2012, 08:42 AM
  #89
mydnyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post

Your premise is flawed because a 26 year old Thornton wasn't shopped around. That in itself kills your argument.

If the Sharks actually make Thornton available, the Leafs would be looking at something like Gunnarsson, Kadri/Colborne, and the 5th overall.
both parts are true ...He wasnt shopped, and that ended up being one of the worst deals in NHL history.

...i agree that SJ would ask for a similar, if not greater return, however, Burke is trying to acquire young talent, and the Leafs are in no position to go after a player like Thornton. ...Leafs and SJ are very bad trading partners because both want young talent.

I think Buffalo would be a good fit, and willing to give up far more than the Leafs.

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Old
05-16-2012, 08:43 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I think I'd do something like Thornton/17th overall for Kadri/Kulemin/5th overall. Leafs get their big, playmaking #1C for Kessel and still have a decent first rounder.

Salary Cap?

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Old
05-16-2012, 09:44 AM
  #91
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Schenn, Kadri, and a 2013 2nd and you accept the consolation prize of Marleau.

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Old
05-16-2012, 10:02 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
so you think that Columbus picking at 29/30 they are getting from LA is the same as a #5 pick?
I think he meant Voracek and the pick used to draft Couturier

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Old
05-16-2012, 10:07 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart was the return for 26 year old Thornton.

Sturm ~= MacArthur (though MacArthur's stats are better than Sturm's were. career high 56 points)

Wayne Primeau = Steckel ...but i'd be wiling to upgrade him to Armstrong for you.

Brad Stuart < Gunnarson (to be honest, Gunnar is better than Stuart ever was)

so, there you have it, the new version of the trade, in fair value to what was paid.

MacArthur + Armstrong + Gunnarson

for

Thornton

I'm guessing that SJ will pass, but, no way in the world you get what you expect from any team, forget a team that cannot afford to give away assets like the Leafs.

...try Buffalo, at least they may offer Roy!!
That trade was also one of the most lopsided trades in Sharks history. The Sharks aren't going to give up Thornton for nothing because they don't have to. They'd require at least one player in return that has the potential to turn into a player of Thornton's level. Kadri, Colborne, Kulemin just don't have that. That's why the 5th overall pick is a starting spot.

I think if the Sharks were to trade Thornton it would make more sense to trade him to a contending/near-contending team that needs a 1C. That would be the team that values Thornton most, not a rebuilding team that needs a few more pieces to become a viable playoff threat.

That being said, I'm against trading Thornton barring either a complete rebuild (Marleau and Boyle moved as well) or an overpayment.

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Old
05-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #94
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I think the leafs need to draft 5th or better. so any deal involving the 5th isn't likely going to happen.

Burke preaches "anything is available" but after what he has done in the past. Do you really think the he will sell off some more high end 1sts? doubts

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Old
05-16-2012, 10:52 AM
  #95
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It would take the 5th oa +++

You're better off looking for other 1Cs.

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Old
05-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #96
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Not a Leaf fan by any means but that's an overpayment from the Leafs.
Absolutely it's an over payment. But what incentive is there for SJ to move JT? They don't need to move him unless they're trying to open up a roster spot for someone or unless they want to try rebuilding.

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05-16-2012, 11:54 AM
  #97
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I must be missing something here, from what I've gathered, trading for Jumbo Joe is only half the puzzle piece, with the other being acquiring Luongo from the Canucks.

If the leafs are trading Schenn + Kadri + 5th overall in any combination for Joe, who exactly do you have left to acquire Luongo from Vancouver?

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05-16-2012, 11:59 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
I must be missing something here, from what I've gathered, trading for Jumbo Joe is only half the puzzle piece, with the other being acquiring Luongo from the Canucks.

If the leafs are trading Schenn + Kadri + 5th overall in any combination for Joe, who exactly do you have left to acquire Luongo from Vancouver?

I don't think he will get as much as you think he's a great goalie but he has 10 years left on his deal that will be hard to move.

He will get a decant package but less then most people think

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05-16-2012, 12:01 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Inub0i View Post
It would take the 5th oa +++

You're better off looking for other 1Cs.
most #1 centers will take the 5th pick so why not look at Joe?

that said I believe there will be a deal between SJ and Toronto but it will be for Clowe

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05-16-2012, 12:01 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
Does something like Kulemin / Connolly / 5th overall / One of: (Kadri/colborne/etc)

For

Thornton / 55th Overall

San Jose gets a top 6 winger in Kulemin, a serviceable when healthy 2nd line C albeit Salary dump in Connolly, great pick and a high ceiling prospect.

Toronto immediately has one of the most dangerous PP units in the league. And be able to have star power spread across 2 scoring lines making them harder to defend against. They also shed connollys salary.

Pretty similar value to both the Richards and carter trades a year ago. Which I think big joe would be in the same ball park.
I'd be willing to take back Lombardi as a cap dump, but Connolly going back, and then the money it would take to sign Kulemin would actually result in a net increase in cap hit for the Sharks.

5th overall, Kulemin, Kadri, and Lombardi for Joe and 55th overall is something I think I would pull the trigger on.

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