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Bettman "Original 12"

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Old
05-15-2012, 11:34 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
There hasn't been enough time elapsed for the term O12 to be used. There are still many fans alive who remember only having a 6 team league. You'd have to wait another 20+ years to use that term regularly.
True, but consider that the current draft class was not only not alive for that, neither were their fathers.

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05-15-2012, 11:34 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Non O6 and non-traditional market fans can't grasp this. It goes beyond a simple term. It represents the origins of the league, those 6 teams hold a special nostalgia none of the other 24 can replicate.
That's awfully presumptious of you - we're not capable of understanding! It also makes it easier to defend your point of view, when all you have to say is that we aren't smart enough to get it.

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05-15-2012, 11:38 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Non O6 and non-traditional market fans can't grasp this. It goes beyond a simple term. It represents the origins of the league, those 6 teams hold a special nostalgia none of the other 24 can replicate.
So you're suggesting that the new cutoff is those who are 45 years old (or older). Awfully tough to be nostalgic about something that someone wasn't even alive for.

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05-15-2012, 11:39 PM
  #204
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Technically the original six term is bogus.
It really should be the "remaining" six.

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05-15-2012, 11:40 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
That's awfully presumptious of you - we're not capable of understanding! It also makes it easier to defend your point of view, when all you have to say is that we aren't smart enough to get it.
I'll try and use the MLB as an analogy to my point. It'd be like the Diamondbacks or Padres trying to claim they're just as special to the league and sport as the Yankees and Red Sox for example. However much Bettman tries to have it catch on, Original 12 wont.

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05-15-2012, 11:46 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
I'll try and use the MLB as an analogy to my point. It'd be like the Diamondbacks or Padres trying to claim they're just as special to the league and sport as the Yankees and Red Sox for example. However much Bettman tries to have it catch on, Original 12 wont.
Several things wrong with your post:

(1) The American and National Leagues had 16 teams apiece for sixty years - far more than the NHL had an "Original Six".

(2) Why did you choose the Diamondbacks (a very recent expansion team) and the Padres (older, but not the first set of expansion teams)? An appopriate analogy would include teams like the Mets or Angels.

(3) No one's claiming that the "Original 12" teams are "just as special" as the Red Wings or Maple Leafs. It makes a convenient strawman for you to knock over, though. Or maybe they are. I'm not smart enough to "get it",

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05-15-2012, 11:47 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
I'll try and use the MLB as an analogy to my point. It'd be like the Diamondbacks or Padres trying to claim they're just as special to the league and sport as the Yankees and Red Sox for example. However much Bettman tries to have it catch on, Original 12 wont.
You're making the statement that all of the O6 teams have the same history as the Yankees and Red Sox. For one thing, the Red Sox don't come close to the Yankees; it's like comparing the Rangers to the Canadiens.

Second, you automatically jump to two of the most recent teams who have combined for 1 World Series and 1 runner-up. No one's comparing Columbus to Montreal. But I think it's safe to say that Philadelphia is right there (if not above) the Rangers and Blackhawks; Pittsburgh may be close; even the Islanders may be close (even with 20 years of futility).

Longer existence does not automatically equal more important. Just don't tell anyone over 45 that; they REALLY hate it.

(Also, fair warning...when you start talking baseball history, you're getting close to my real area of knowledge. Proceed at your own risk.)

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05-15-2012, 11:52 PM
  #208
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Wow. We'll argue over anything. Everyone knows what he means, right? It's a new term that accurately and concisely describes something that previously didn't have a term (that I'm aware of), so I don't see the problem.

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05-15-2012, 11:52 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
Of course he'd have exactly zero input with those......uhm ......lackeys

Hey Ohh
He's got input with the board of governors. All the ideas came from players, coaches, and GM's. I sincerely doubt that Bettman holds a spell over everyone affiliated with hockey.

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05-15-2012, 11:55 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
He's got input with the board of governors. All the ideas came from players, coaches, and GM's. I sincerely doubt that Bettman holds a spell over everyone affiliated with hockey.
No, only over the unintelligent and those who aren't capable of understanding. Apparently, that's anyone whose team came into existence in 1967 or later.

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05-16-2012, 03:44 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by roomtemperature View Post
when did the term o6 come into use
19o6?

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05-16-2012, 12:05 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
Technically the original six term is bogus.
It really should be the "remaining" six.
Pointed out various times now that the "Original Six" does Not refer to the first teams in the NHL but to the teams that existed at the time of the 67 expansion. It's a "modern-era" expression, which, if I remember correctly, was not even used until some time after the 67 expansion... again referring to the six teams that existed prior to the 67 expansion.

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05-16-2012, 12:10 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Pointed out various times now that the "Original Six" does Not refer to the first teams in the NHL but to the teams that existed at the time of the 67 expansion. It's a "modern-era" expression, which, if I remember correctly, was not even used until some time after the 67 expansion... again referring to the six teams that existed prior to the 67 expansion.
Of course it didn't - how can something be original until you have something after it?

I don't think it's a huge deal, but it certainly speaks to how little tradition is beginning to mean.

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05-16-2012, 12:33 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liscombe07 View Post
Of course it didn't - how can something be original until you have something after it?

I don't think it's a huge deal, but it certainly speaks to how little tradition is beginning to mean.
I wasn't criticizing the term, just clarifying its meaning. And again, as I've posted earlier... Understanding that meaning, makes the idea of an "Original 12" (or Original 10) even more nonsensical. If the "Original Six" relates to the teams that existed prior to the 67 expansion, then an "original 12" would relate to the teams that existed prior to the 70 expansion (or even more accurately, prior to the 72 expansion). That would be as trivial a distinction as could possibly be made... differentiating between the teams that existed from 1967 and those that existed after 1970/72.

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