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05-16-2012, 12:39 PM
  #126
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
The main reason why the Avs would trade Stastny is the emergence of O'Reilly.
I think O'Reilly will be a great centerman, but do I count on him equalling or bettering his production from this year? Nope. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I don't expect him to either. Then consider the horrible year that Duchene had. Why move Stastny without making sure this was a fluke? More importantly why move Stastny for a package in which the main piece is older than Stastny and at least slightly less talented? If anything, the Avalanche need to be acquiring more potent offensive talent not obtaining more depth.

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05-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
I think O'Reilly will be a great centerman, but do I count on him equalling or bettering his production from this year? Nope. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I don't expect him to either. Then consider the horrible year that Duchene had. Why move Stastny without making sure this was a fluke? More importantly why move Stastny for a package in which the main piece is older than Stastny and at least slightly less talented? If anything, the Avalanche need to be acquiring more potent offensive talent not obtaining more depth.

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05-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
I think O'Reilly will be a great centerman, but do I count on him equalling or bettering his production from this year? Nope. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I don't expect him to either. Then consider the horrible year that Duchene had. Why move Stastny without making sure this was a fluke? More importantly why move Stastny for a package in which the main piece is older than Stastny and at least slightly less talented? If anything, the Avalanche need to be acquiring more potent offensive talent not obtaining more depth.
Seriously? THe avs have some of the worst depth in the entire league.

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05-16-2012, 12:45 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Seriously? THe avs have some of the worst depth in the entire league.
Based on?

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05-16-2012, 12:47 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Seriously? THe avs have some of the worst depth in the entire league.
Yes seriously. We have plenty of "top-9" guys. We're lacking top line quality wingers and a top pairing defenseman.

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05-16-2012, 12:50 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Seriously? THe avs have some of the worst depth in the entire league.
Where exactly?

We have good depth at center, wing, defense, goal-tending..

Now to counter that while we have better depth at wing now we also are lacking in quality. A lot of 2nd 3rd and 4th line guys and not enough clear cut top 6 guys.

So I guess if your going to say we have horrible depth then it would probably be at wing depending on how you look at it. I wouldn't say that warrants "some of the worst depth in the entire league." though. Especially considering we probably are in the top 5 teams in the league when it comes to quality depth at center.

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05-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Based on?
Avs have great depth down the middle (Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, McClement) and in net (Varlamov, Giguere, prospects) but flat-out awful depth on wing and on D. Would I call the Avs' depth THE worst? No. Would I call it in the bottom 10? Easily.

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05-16-2012, 01:03 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
Avs have great depth down the middle (Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, McClement) and in net (Varlamov, Giguere, prospects) but flat-out awful depth on wing and on D. Would I call the Avs' depth THE worst? No. Would I call it in the bottom 10? Easily.
Hence the reasons for my willingness to trade one of the big 3 (Stastny, Duchene or O'Reilly) for the right wingers. Guys like Ryan, E. Kane & Max Pac

I would even do it for Nash but pretty much every CBJ fan wouldn't like me after I told them they would have to add to Nash because of his contract.

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05-16-2012, 01:04 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
Avs have great depth down the middle (Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, McClement) and in net (Varlamov, Giguere, prospects) but flat-out awful depth on wing and on D. Would I call the Avs' depth THE worst? No. Would I call it in the bottom 10? Easily.
That's the thing though... Our defense has O'Brien, O'Byrne, Wilson, Hejda, Elliott, Barrie, and Hunwick. Basically there are 7 guys who ideally play in a #4 to #6 role. We need 2 top-3 defensemen but have plenty of lower end depth.

The wings have Landeskog, Downie, McGinn, Hejduk, Olver, Mueller, and Jones. Plenty of top-9 depth, but only one top line quality winger in Landeskog.

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05-16-2012, 01:07 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
That's the thing though... Our defense has O'Brien, O'Byrne, Wilson, Hejda, Elliott, Barrie, and Hunwick. Basically there are 7 guys who ideally play in a #4 to #6 role. We need 2 top-3 defensemen but have plenty of lower end depth.

The wings have Landeskog, Downie, McGinn, Hejduk, Olver, Mueller, and Jones. Plenty of top-9 depth, but only one top line quality winger in Landeskog.
How could you forget EJ? lol

I wouldn't count Hejduk, O'Brien, or Hunwick in there but I am tracking your point.

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05-16-2012, 01:13 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
That's the thing though... Our defense has O'Brien, O'Byrne, Wilson, Hejda, Elliott, Barrie, and Hunwick. Basically there are 7 guys who ideally play in a #4 to #6 role. We need 2 top-3 defensemen but have plenty of lower end depth.

The wings have Landeskog, Downie, McGinn, Hejduk, Olver, Mueller, and Jones. Plenty of top-9 depth, but only one top line quality winger in Landeskog.
I completely understand. The Avs are painfully lacking in top-6 talent. They have plenty of bottom sixers and bottom pairing D-men, but are extremely thin in top-end talent. They have got Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, maybe Mueller and McGinn (let's see how both respond next season) up front and EJ ('bout it) on D. Hejduk is definitely past his prime and last season he should NOT have been anywhere near the top 2 lines. Jonesy is a borderline top-6 guy (could be great with Stastny, but I am still on the fence about him). Downie... well, before his shoulder injury he looked like a SOLID top-sixer on COL with O'Reilly and Landeskog, but one has to wonder if it was that post-trade high. Fingers crossed he continues to play like he did right after the trade and before his injury. Still, these guys are borderline 2nd liners. No "solid" top line guys outside of center and EJ (on D). I do not call having a plethora of 3-4th liners and bottom pairing D-men as abundant in depth. Still tons of holes on the roster.

My point: there are too many holes on the Avs' roster to be considered a "deep" team.

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05-16-2012, 01:33 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
I completely understand. The Avs are painfully lacking in top-6 talent. They have plenty of bottom sixers and bottom pairing D-men, but are extremely thin in top-end talent. They have got Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, maybe Mueller and McGinn (let's see how both respond next season) up front and EJ ('bout it) on D. Hejduk is definitely past his prime and last season he should NOT have been anywhere near the top 2 lines. Jonesy is a borderline top-6 guy (could be great with Stastny, but I am still on the fence about him). Downie... well, before his shoulder injury he looked like a SOLID top-sixer on COL with O'Reilly and Landeskog, but one has to wonder if it was that post-trade high. Fingers crossed he continues to play like he did right after the trade and before his injury. Still, these guys are borderline 2nd liners. No "solid" top line guys outside of center and EJ (on D). I do not call having a plethora of 3-4th liners and bottom pairing D-men as abundant in depth. Still tons of holes on the roster.

My point: there are too many holes on the Avs' roster to be considered a "deep" team.
It is interesting though how we could fix that at wing with at least one UFA signing. Although there is NO ONE besides Parise or Semin that I want the Avs offering UFA money to. (Only talking about forwards)

Defense.. There are some options outside of Suter like Jackman but there is only a few guys I would actually call 2/3 defense and more 3/4 defenders than anything.

Weidman = NO Carle (The more I read about him) = NO

Back to forwards..

I think we need to take a risk and package one of the big 3 centers for a top line winger and as close to a blue-chip level winger prospect as we can get. Duchene would probably be the best candidate for something like that.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned Duchene + for Max Pac & Eller (A little different seeing as Eller would become the 3rd line center. Similar idea though.)

From Anaheim it would be something like Duchene + for Ryan & Etem/Palmieri. Basically find a team with a need for a top two center and a high pick or good prospect depth and negotiate.

The only way this happens though is if we can start a bidding war with all the teams that miss out on Staal or either of the top two centers in the draft. If that happens and their are still enough teams clamoring for a top 6 center we will get what we need.

I would try something for defense but people are almost loony in how much value they are placing on young D with potential. Guys that throw up 20 points who are young are all of the sudden instantly franchise players long before proving anything.

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05-16-2012, 01:33 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
I completely understand. The Avs are painfully lacking in top-6 talent. They have plenty of bottom sixers and bottom pairing D-men, but are extremely thin in top-end talent. They have got Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, maybe Mueller and McGinn (let's see how both respond next season) up front and EJ ('bout it) on D. Hejduk is definitely past his prime and last season he should NOT have been anywhere near the top 2 lines. Jonesy is a borderline top-6 guy (could be great with Stastny, but I am still on the fence about him). Downie... well, before his shoulder injury he looked like a SOLID top-sixer on COL with O'Reilly and Landeskog, but one has to wonder if it was that post-trade high. Fingers crossed he continues to play like he did right after the trade and before his injury. Still, these guys are borderline 2nd liners. No "solid" top line guys outside of center and EJ (on D). I do not call having a plethora of 3-4th liners and bottom pairing D-men as abundant in depth. Still tons of holes on the roster.

My point: there are too many holes on the Avs' roster to be considered a "deep" team.
Fair enough, but I think you missed the context of the discussion. I had said we shouldn't be changing our top-6 talent into less talented players because we have that depth.

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05-16-2012, 01:36 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Fair enough, but I think you missed the context of the discussion. I had said we shouldn't be changing our top-6 talent into less talented players because we have that depth.
I didn't read the thread, just skimmed a few posts and felt I needed to give my input. But yes, whatever top-6 talent the Avalanche currently has should NOT be traded away for 3-4th liners. I agree with you there.

Trading Stastny would be for an upgrade at his position or for a top pairing D-man.

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05-16-2012, 01:43 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
I didn't read the thread, just skimmed a few posts and felt I needed to give my input. But yes, whatever top-6 talent the Avalanche currently has should NOT be traded away for 3-4th liners. I agree with you there.

Trading Stastny would be for an upgrade at his position or for a top pairing D-man.
The one frear I would have with trading Stastny is that Duchene may not be ready for the No. 1 role. Until Stastny returns to a 70 point pace for at least half a season. People are going to want some sort of value deal for him. It makes me sick..

I can throw out his PPG over the last couple months and argue our winger depth until I am blue in the face. Still just end up with secondary pieces for offers. Duchene is a little different on the other hand. He is still a shinny nickle in a lot of peoples eyes regardless of his season.

After watching the teams in the playoffs you can make a solid argument as to why O'Reilly is more valuable but he just wouldn't fetch the same return regardless. It's actually kind of interesting how people view things like that.

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05-19-2012, 08:52 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
McClement. He might not be as good in terms of talent, but McClement is an amazing bottom 6 center, and no way would Eller play as the 4th line center instead of McClement.

I'd also turn the offer down. While it may be an overpayment, it doesn't justify giving up Stastny for a downgrade, albeit a small one. It's basically gambling Eller turns out into a top 6 winger, or else he'd have no place on the team. Since you want to bring the WC into this Statsny has been PPG as well.
McClement is awesome, no doubt. But just so you know, Eller is incredible defensively as well.

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